Kitz Forum

Computer Software => Linux => Topic started by: asbokid on November 16, 2011, 09:37:22 PM

Title: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: asbokid on November 16, 2011, 09:37:22 PM
Dear Dell,
...
I would like a refund for the cost of Microsoft Windows 7 which was preinstalled..

Yours,
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: roseway on November 16, 2011, 10:39:18 PM
Well done that man! ;D
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: burakkucat on November 17, 2011, 01:06:51 AM
Excellent.  :clap2:

I purchased a brand new Dell Latitude E5500 laptop over 18 months ago and as I detest all that Redmond Company's software, I put the DVD/CDs into a drawer (with the idea of donating them to the Poor of the Parish), formatted the disk and said "Phooey" to M$.  :-X

I wish we had met two years ago.  :)
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: asbokid on November 17, 2011, 07:01:56 PM
Thanks Guys,

There is a lot of interesting legal commentary in French on the website of Poitiers-based lawyer and Linux advocate, Frederic Cuif.

Sadly, my French isn't up to reading the articles in their native tongue.. But the wonders of Google Translate service can still bring Monsieur Cuif's wisdom within reach  :)

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cuifavocats.com%2F

EDIT:

I meant to add that the Dell laptop, an XPS l502x model with a core i7-2630QM is excellent.

The machine flawlessly runs the latest builds of Ubuntu and Debian Linux, and on that basis, I can wholeheartedly recommend it to others.

cheers, a
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: tickmike on November 22, 2011, 09:43:48 PM
Nice one  :).
The only computer I have ever paid money for was my daughters Acer Aspire 5738Z a couple of years ago and I tried to get some money back for the Windows c@@@ but with no luck.
There was only one firm doing 'Bare Bones' laptops but these were a lot dearer  >:D.
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: asbokid on November 26, 2011, 10:07:02 PM
The Windows refund of £60 arrived from Dell today :-)
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: tickmike on November 27, 2011, 01:36:05 AM
The Windows refund of £60 arrived from Dell today :-)


Well done, nice one.
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: broadstairs on January 07, 2012, 06:15:48 PM
I thought this thread had some references in it to EU law which spelt out how to go about this and who the refund has to be claimed from but I cant find anything now.

Can anyone point me in the right direction please?

Stuart
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: asbokid on January 08, 2012, 07:26:24 PM
I thought this thread had some references in it to EU law which spelt out how to go about this and who the refund has to be claimed from but I cant find anything now.

Can anyone point me in the right direction please?

Stuart

Hi. sorry, a party to the emails asked for their comments to be removed.

Those emails referenced:


Cheers, a

[1] http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2005:149:0022:0039:EN:PDF
[2] http://www.courdecassation.fr/jurisprudence_2/premiere_chambre_civile_568/995_15_18117.html#
[3] http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/telecharger_rtf.do?idTexte=JURITEXT000023113674&origine=juriJudi
[4] http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2008/9780110811574/pdfs/ukdsi_9780110811574_en.pdf
[5] http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/cpregs/oft1008.pdf
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: Mick on January 08, 2012, 08:03:02 PM
Did Dell seriously refund the cost of the MSWindows OS?!!! 

My understanding is that preinstalled PCs are actually cheaper *because* Microsoft in essence subsidises the OEMs to use their software - and then hopes to make money from their MSOffice products.

When I asked Dell for a bare bones laptop a few years ago they were adamant that I could only buy it from them "at no extra cost" with "MSWindows installed by default".  I argued that the extra cost was already part of the price, which I was seeking to reduce further for an OS I did not need/want.  They wouldn't budge.  :(
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: asbokid on January 08, 2012, 11:47:39 PM
Did Dell seriously refunded the cost of the MSWindows OS?!!! 

My understanding is that preinstalled PCs are actually cheaper *because* Microsoft in essence subsidises the OEMs to use their software - and then hopes to make money from their MSOffice products.

When I asked Dell for a bare bones laptop a few years ago they were adamant that I could only buy it from them "at no extra cost" with "MSWindows installed by default".  I argued that the extra cost was already part of the price, which I was seeking to reduce further for an OS I did not need/want.  They wouldn't budge.  :(

Yes, Dell gave me a refund of £60 (inc VAT) for the unwanted copy of Microsoft Windows 7 64 bit Pro operating system that was pre-installed on the hard drive of a new Dell laptop costing ~£600.  In other words, the Windows Tax accounted for 10% of the price of the new laptop. The refund was donated to the Free Software Foundation since they work very hard to expose the unlawful racketeering of the Microsoft Corporation.

There was apparently some other rubbishy Microsoft stuff on the laptop hard drive. A time-limited version of MS Office, if memory serves. But since Windows was never booted, whatever junk was in the Windows partition remained unused and was subsequently erased to make space for Debian Linux.

The British courts should recognise the Lenovo ruling in the French Supreme Court. Even if the French court judgment does not set a precedent in the UK, it nevertheless was based on the 2005 European Directive which applies just as equally in this country.

There are quite a few acrobatic legal arguments over the value of Microsoft Windows. If it's free, then Dell is giving away copies of it?  So we can too?!  Let's be frank, Microsoft Windows isn't worth anything any way!

cheers, a
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: Mick on January 09, 2012, 06:07:46 AM
Thanks for this!  I wish I knew it earlier ...
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: broadstairs on January 09, 2012, 09:03:04 AM
Thanks for the update. The reason I asked is that I'm considering a buying a new laptop, however not a Dell, so I'm not sure I'll have the same luck.

Stuart
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: exo on January 26, 2012, 09:32:25 PM
As long as you do not use the installed Windows O/S, then you should be able to get a refund.
All stated in the MS EULA.

http://vista.blorge.com/2009/07/24/amazon-customer-gets-hassle-free-refund-for-unwanted-windows/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund


Title: Go Home Gates!
Post by: asbokid on January 27, 2012, 01:49:50 AM
As long as you do not use the installed Windows O/S, then you should be able to get a refund.
All stated in the MS EULA.

http://vista.blorge.com/2009/07/24/amazon-customer-gets-hassle-free-refund-for-unwanted-windows/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund

Some time in 2011, Microsoft slyly re-worded the EULA to try and bar that option of a refund. Closely study the latest EULA and it has been subtly changed.  No matter. Whatever the Microsoft lawyers have scribbled to the contrary in the margins remains irrelevant. The bundling of Windows with new PCs, and the refusal to cough up a refund when requested, remains incompatible with European Directive 2005/29/EC.

The best way to deal with Microsoft is to drag it hissing and screaming before a European Court of Law. It's time the Courts made a European-wide judgment to settle this pathetic state of affairs. Bundling unwanted software with a new PC is a practice that impedes the European free market. The practice violates the consumers' best interest, and runs counter to the intentions of the European Parliament which voted for 2005/29/EC.

Better still would be for the European Commission to really flex its anti-monopoly and anti-racketeering powers. It's time to break up Microsoft, and where better to start than in Europe.

This could be a spectacular re-dux of the Bell System divestiture.  In 1984, AT&T, the incumbent US telco, was broken into seven smaller companies known as the Baby Bells, to curb the telco's abusive monopolistic behaviour.   In comparison to AT&T, Microsoft racketeering behaviour today is several orders of magnitude worse.

Incidentally, Channel 4 News reported that Billy Gates made an "impromptu" visit to a multi-ethnic school in Sarf London.  It was nothing of the sort. It was a heavily pre-arranged photo-op that allowed Gates to strut the media stage like the prize peacock that he is.

The hapless kids in the school were like rabbits caught in the headlight.  While the British TV public was thoroughly spattered in prime-time Corporate Propaganda from the ghastly Head of the Redmond Hydra.  True to form, Baron Billy wasted no time before explaining to the world (once again) what an awesome guy he truly is. And how he's going to wipe out global starvation, find a cure for AIDS and cancer, eradicate malaria and then colonise the moon.    *yawn*

It all begs the question: what was Gates' real reason for soiling our pleasant land with his stinking carcass?

Which rogues in Whitehall, the City and Westminster were behind this trip?  Who were the "very important people" cosying up to the slithery git while he poked his snout into British affairs?  What was the nature of the meetings Gates had with "The Establishment"? Who arranged them? How and where were they conducted? Where are the minutes of all of those meetings?

I smell the Filthy Lucre from whopping Government IT Contracts, signed and sealed in secret between H.M.G. and William Henry "Bill" Gates III.

cheers, a
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: exo on January 27, 2012, 08:41:06 PM
I gather from that you are not keen on Microsoft products.

That puts you into one of two categories.

1. I hate Windows. I love Linux.   OR   2. I love Linux. I hate Windows.

Choose whichever you want, it makes no difference to me.

Microsoft is a private company. It has to make a profit to survive. To survive in business you eliminate or buy out the competition.
Just look at Sony Blue Ray eliminating Toshiba HD DVD.
The way Toshiba suddenly capitulated was startling as Blue Ray is still in the minority.
Should I start my own conspiracy theories about this.

For whatever reason, Windows is the preferred choice by the majority of computer users at the moment.
If Linux developers actually produced a system that didn't change every other month, was as simple to use as Windows, then they might have a bigger uptake.

Linux is free, so why don't more people use it.
Answer.....because it does not meet peoples needs in a simple and useable fashion.

Personally, I don't care what operating system people use.

I have dabbled with various versions of Linux.
One didn't like my graphic card. Another refused to recognise .mp3 files.
I don't need that hassle and XP didn't give it to me at that time.

Linux still appears to be an operating system for those that wish to tinker with the nuts and bolts.
The rest of us just want an operating system that does everything in the background with the user hardly being aware of its existence.

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti Linux. I want competition for Microsoft but Linux just isn't doing it.
Why, because it does not have that ruthless business streak to compete and be better than the competition.
It probably never will whilst it is free but that is what most people love about Linux.

You can't have it both ways.

exo
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: broadstairs on January 28, 2012, 09:03:46 AM
I gather from that you are not keen on Microsoft products.

That puts you into one of two categories.

1. I hate Windows. I love Linux.   OR   2. I love Linux. I hate Windows.

Choose whichever you want, it makes no difference to me.


What always amazes and intensely annoys me is that people have to put folks in one of these two categories, you do not have to hate one to like another. Most people who take a close look at the options do so rationally and make a choice based on their requirements. Please in future do not insult people with such generalisations.

Stuart
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: exo on January 28, 2012, 10:58:41 AM
That's rich coming from you, considering your previous post concerning your dislike to Windows and posted in the Windows forum.
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,10528.0.html

That post just enforces the two categories I mentioned.

And to cap it all, you find my post insulting and yet these comments are alright?

It all begs the question: what was Gates' real reason for soiling our pleasant land with his stinking carcass?
cheers, a

Some Linux users really need to get rid of that chip on their shoulder.

exo
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: tuftedduck on January 28, 2012, 11:41:28 AM
Ok guys, you have both had your say.

I think we have gone far enough down that road.  :)
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: exo on January 28, 2012, 11:48:07 AM
Oh come on TD, I have only just got started.  :o
A Forum is for open and frank discussion or it's meaningless.
Within the rules of course.

exo
Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: UncleUB on January 28, 2012, 11:59:28 AM
I myself have never used Linux or have any immediate plans to do so,but I don't go round saying its useless etc just because I use Windows o/s

Yet I read on many forums wher Linux users seem hell bent on dissing Microsft........ :shrug2:

You chose whichever o/s you want,its called personal choice,so why keep complaining about something you don't use/have no intention of using......

Title: Re: Refund for unwanted pre-loaded Microsoft software
Post by: broadstairs on January 28, 2012, 12:55:28 PM
I think its a great shame that this discussion has gone in this direction. My original comments in my thread were interpreted as me hating M$ and I tried to explain why I do and what I do, and in no way do I condone the comments about Mr Gates although privately I do question his motives sometimes. I only viewed this thread because of its title which was of interest, having just purchased a new laptop, and come face to face with such sweeping generalisations which I felt I needed to rebuff. I also do not condone some of the stuff which goes on in Linux forums which is also out of order in many cases.

I have no desire (or need) to go any further with this, I have explained my position regarding M$ and Linux and that's it. I hope all who visit here can get back to rational discussion about things without the need to resort to such sweeping generalisations and end up insulting people they know nothing about.

Stuart