Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: nat3s on April 10, 2010, 10:47:01 AM
-
I've just got off the phone to my ISP. I've been experiencing woefully low download / conn speeds since around Wednesday this week. I generally connect anywhere from 400-900kbs (my line attenuation is not great). Since Wednesday I've been snycing much higher (1.7 - 2.1 meg) but apparently my exchange profile has dropped dramatically in that time. The ISP CSR I spoke to recommended sitting tight and waiting for the profile to rise again but asked that I ensure my router is left on for the next 72 hours. I switch my router off every time I go to work / leave the house (I don't like to leave anything switched on). I was told by doing this the BT system might get the impression my line is unstable? Should I really be leaving my router permanently on?
I have a second problem that prevents me leaving the router allways-on, it tends to lose a connection to my browser (tried both Firefox and IE) but, bizarrely, if I happen to be playing a game (CS:S, WoW etc) I am still able to play with a low ping as if the connection is working correctly. The ADSL light remains on throughout and my router reports the connection is active and I am able to ping from the router CP without issue. It's as if something tells Firefox / IE / Outlook that my connection has died when it hasn't. The only way to rectify this is to either reboot the PC or reset my router. I've been doing the latter frequently (4-5 times an evening) which might explain the change in my profile. Has anyone else encountered this problem?
Any tips / advice would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers :)
EDIT: Some misc info which might be relevant:
Windows XP SP2
Firefox 3.5.9
Intel Pentium Q6600
4gig Corsair ram (matched pair)
600w PSU (Overclockers OEM)
Nvidia GTX260
Creative XFI sound card
DS Attenuation: 40-50
Router: D-Link DSL-G604T
ISP: Zen
Accessing the router CP is surprisingly slow and the images can sometimes take a while to load as I login to it via its IP addy. Would expect the response time to be quick for something connected via LAN surely?
-
Hi and welcome .
Could you post your your line stats (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php). This will help to see what your connection is doing .
It is best to leave router on . You have however a bigger problem
quote either reboot the PC or reset my router. I've been doing the latter frequently (4-5 times an evening)
Resetting your router that frequently is likely to cause the DLM to raise your target SNR.
Who is your ISP?
If your router is compatible try routerstats (http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm). This application will monitor your statistics and display them in graphical format.
To see your current profile try running the BT speed tester (http://www.speedtester.bt.com/)
Regards Jeff
-
Thanks Jeff.
Line stats as follows:
DSL Status
Connection Status Connected
Upstream Rate (Kbps) 448
Downstream Rate (Kbps) 1728
US Margin 18
DS Margin 11
Modulation GDMT
LOS Errors 0
DS Line Attenuation 52
US Line Attenuation 63
Path Mode Interleaved
DSL Statistics
Near End F4 Loop Back Count 0
Near End F5 Loop Back Count 0
Downloaded at 10kb/s at the moment so my profile is obviously still really low at the exchange.
My attenuation is higher than usual tonight it seems (as I mentioned in my original post it is usually 40-50).
I'm with Zen Internet.
Thanks :)
EDIT: BT Speedtest result
Download speedachieved during the test was - 71 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 50-250 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :1728 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 135 Kbps
-
DS Line Attenuation 52
US Line Attenuation 63
There is something wrong with those figures...Your upstream attenuation is usually about half of what your downstream attenuation is.
Do you have your router plugged into the BT master socket.If possible it is best to try this as it will help to eliminate if you have any faulty internal wiring/extensions.
-
Your IP Profile is the lowest it can be where it should be at least 1000 Kbps.
This is either due to a faulty line or that you keep re-booting or switching the modem off.
If you must restart your system try just rebooting your computer.
You might try a 17070 option 2 quiet line test to see if your line is noisy.
Kind regards,
Walter
-
Hi
quote : My attenuation is higher than usual tonight it seems (as I mentioned in my original post it is usually 40-50).
There is something wrong with your connection . The attenuation should NOT vary (maybe 0.1 or so).
Have you tried Routerstats ?
try to improve your connection (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm).to eliminate any internal problems.
You are with a good reliable ISP . :)
Regards Jeff
-
Thanks for the replies. A few things:
I've been using the BT test socket under the main faceplate for a while (since my last thread here: http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,6559.msg141437.html#msg141437). It makes no difference.
My US attenuation is always 63. I understand it is relational to DS attenuation so it can't actually be higher. It's just always been reported that way in my router.
The router doesn't actually have an off switch so I have to unplug it each time. Could this have caused it damage?
I will ty not switcyhing my router off as regularly as before (its been on for almost 24 hours now :o). Will see if that improves things.
I switched my DSL setup from MMODE (as I believe this is ADSL2 which I do not have) to GDMT.
My router is now reporting much lower DS sync despite not having been switched off since it synced yesterday at 1700. I'm not aware of it losing connection (it may have done overnight I guess). Is it possible for the modem to re-sync whilst connected?
DSL Status
Connection Status Connected
Upstream Rate (Kbps) 448
Downstream Rate (Kbps) 160
US Margin 17
DS Margin 16
Modulation GDMT
LOS Errors 0
DS Line Attenuation 53
US Line Attenuation 63
Path Mode Interleaved
EDIT: Just reset the router and it is now syncing as:
448 Kbps Upstream, 1696 Kbps Downstream
-
I would say that you've got a line fault, although I suppose it's just possible that the router is faulty. Is it possible for you to temporarily try a different router?
By the way, it's not a good idea to unplug the router from the phone line without switching it off first. When the router is switched off, it's supposed to send what's called a 'dying gasp' to the exchange, to let it know that the router is powering down and it's not a random disconnection. If you just unplug it, it will be interpreted as a random disconnection, and an indication of instability.
-
Tempted to pickup a new router just in case.
I've not unplugged my router from the phone line in weeks / months (last time was when I removed the faceplate on my main socket to switch to the test socket). I only switch off the plug to stop it getting power (as there is no off switch on the router for some bizarre reason).
I amended my routers system date / time from 1st Jan 2005 (something I've not done since buying it) and the router is now really fast when browsing through the control panel. Previously the router would be slow and some of the images wouldn't load when I navigated to 192.168.1.1.
EDIT: Not sure if this is of any significance. I just tried the BT speed test again as the line seems a bit faster and I received the following:
System Error Image not loaded
The Performance Tester is currently unable to run a speed test for your broadband connection. Please try again shortly, however if this problem persists, raise the issue with your service provider.
I tried 4-5 times and got the above message each time. Odd.
-
I've just got off the phone to my ISP.
Who is it?
(lots of experience here on how to deal with them, they vary a LOT)
-
As I've said a couple of times above; I'm with Zen Internet :)
They recommended I wait 72 hours for my profile to rise again.
-
I've just got off the phone to my ISP.
Who is it?
(lots of experience here on how to deal with them, they vary a LOT)
As I've said a couple of times above; I'm with Zen Internet
:lol:
Say no more.
-
As I've said a couple of times above; I'm with Zen Internet :)
Sorry missed that somehow. There are worse ones for dealing with BT problems so don't give up.
-
One other point of note, I sometimes hear a loud high pitched sound when using my phone.
-
Hi
quote : One other point of note, I sometimes hear a loud high pitched sound when using my phone.
That is very significant . Any interference on the phone line is likely to cause ADSL problems.
when do you get this problem ,try and keep note , is it when you are connected?
I may have missed it but have you done a quiet line test ?
Regards Jeff
-
The high pitch sound doesn't happen that often, usually the line is quiet. I think it happens when Sky+ updates itself.
Will run a quiet line test now. Is it chargeable do you know?
Thanks
-
No, there's no charge for using the quiet line test, but it's really a tool for BT engineers, so don't use it too often.
-
just a thought, have you got your sky box filtered before hitting your phone line ?? Sometimes, even double-filtering a sky box can be beneficial....
-
The Sky+ box is plugged into the filter i.e. Main Socket --> Filter --> Router in the DSL socket / Sky+ in the phone socket --> Phone plugged into Sky+ splitter
-
G'Day Nat3s,
This thread has been brought to my attention. Could you PM your details please so I can look at your line properly. What i can see from your posts is that the line speed jumps a lot on the downstream and this in turn is causing the intermittency which is then causing the DLM to drop the line speed to 135kb to make the line stable.
I dont know what is causing the issue at this point but please PM or call me and I'll look into this for you.
Leo
PS: Thanks Walter for letting me know.
-
I picked up a new router today (a Netgear DG834G) to make sure my old router wasn't at fault. Would appear to be a complete waste of £50! The router takes a while to sync and when it does is unable to establish a connection (this is through the BT test socket under the faceplate). The support number suggested I have a line fault or my ISP is detecting a new MAC address and blocking the connection?
The new router came with new RJ / phone cables and a new splitter. Since the problem started last week I've tried the following without much luck:
2 routers
2 RJ cables
2 modem cables (from router to splitter)
3 splitters
Fortunately my old router (D-Link G604T) is still able to sync and connect reasonably well (currently running at 1.8meg sync and 135kbps profile). The router does re-sync itself mid connection to exactly 160kbps a lot though (usually overnight or whilst I'm at work).
Leo has opened BT fault on my behalf (thanks Leo!). Would anyone who has experience with such problems be able provide advice with regard to BT engineer fees? I really don't want to have to pay £250. Have I done everything I can to verify the fault is not at my end?
Thanks for the help so far all :)
Nathan
-
hi Nat3s
If you do everything possible to ensure the problem is not with your equipment then with Azzaka help I am sure there should be no charge from Bt , They can only charge if the fault is with your internal wiring or equipment. Leo will advise you on how to proceed.
Regards Jeff
-
Hi Nat3s.
A few small points to add to Jeff's.
When you are asked for an appointment time ensure you, or somebody, is in for the entire period.
If it's convenient, morning appointments are better as they are sometimes not in such a hurry to finish.
Don't forget the tea and bacon butties !
It also helps if you can get the name of the engineer visiting and some idea of what has been done.
This data helps Zen if you include it in a fault update in your fault report.
If you have to have a second engineer visit and it's a different engineer, don't assume he or she knows what the first one did.
Kind regards,
Walter
-
Thanks for the tips.
Will a BT engineer actually be able to spot the line fault? I'm thinking probably not. My router syncs at 1.8meg seemingly without any problems (sometimes for hours at a time). It resyncs to 160kbps around 4-5 times a day. Chances are it won't happen whilst the engineer is here? He might think the slow conn is simply due to the profile being low (in which case will I get charged)?
Will the engineer be able to increase my line profile during the visit?
If the engineer cannot find a fault on the line do I get charged (that is to say there is no fault with my internal wiring but also nothing he can identify on the BT side)?
Could it be that my new router (Netgear DG834G) is dead? THe fact that it does sync but cannot connect to my ISP makes me think I'm doing something wrong with it. I've noticed it will sometimes detect my line as being PPPoA and other times PPPoE, does this mean anything?
Thanks :)
-
Hi again Nat3s,
Firstly rest assured that Zen will attempt to protect you from the majority of chargeable events which in any case are quite rare in my experience.
All the testing you will do with Zen will be designed to eliminate as many causes as possible.
One solution available will be to run Routerstats which produces historical graphs of connection speeds and Noise margins so you have proof positive of the problems.
No you won't get charged simply for a low profile.
The engineer may well find a line fault which could be the cause of the line drops so the line profile will gradually improve over hours or days depending upon the difference in modem sync speeds observed. This is an automatic process.
BT (and you) should not be concerned with the internal wiring. That is the reason for using the test socket behind the master socket.
However it's worth checking that you don't have star wiring which can usually be identified by a junction box with one cable coming in from outside and several going out.
There is a good chance that the new modem syncing but not authenticating has had either the modem log-on name or the password (or both) incorrectly entered or stored.
Note that Zen user-names are of the form:-
zen123456@zen WITHOUT the .co.uk
Passwords are case sensitive. You must save edited configuration parameters in all modems.
We can give you more advice if you aren't sure on these topics.
EDIT to add
The modem set up process is described within this document
http://www.zensupport.co.uk/KnowledgeBase/article.aspx?id=10599
Read a section in the middle about internet access details and at the bottom for the other settings.
Kind regards,
Walter
PS I don't work for Zen but they have been very helpful in solving some really quite long-term problems on several services in Ewhurst.
-
Thanks Walter. I had been using @zen.co.uk for my username. I did try just zen123456 without the "@zen.co.uk" but it didn't occur to me to use "@zen". Will retry the new router now.
EDIT:
Unfortunately amending the user to exclude .co.uk made no difference. I verified my login details were correct by logging into the Zen customer portal. The Netgear takes a lot longer to sync than the D-Link, perhaps the former is just of a lesser quality? The router reports the following after finishing the setup wizard (I've also tried setting the details manually):
The problem could be one of the following.
Possible Incorrect Configuration Setting.
Check the configuration settings you entered for your Internet service.
Click Back to return to the Internet settings screen:
Possible Smart Wizard Detection Failure.
In some rare cases, the Smart Wizard may be unable to detect the type of Internet connection you have.
In this case, go to http://www.routerlogin.net/basicsetting.htm and follow the instructions in the Reference Manual on the CD for manual configuration.
There is a problem with the DNS servers in the ADSL network.
Check with your ADSL service provider to verify that the service at your location is working properly then run the Smart Wizard Again.
Click Quit to contact your service provider:
-
Hi
You should have information similar to this
quote :
TECHNICAL DETAILS
-----------------
**These details are vital, so please keep a copy for your records**
Here are the Technical Details needed to configure your computer or ADSL hardware:
Connection username: zen123456@zen
Connection password: XxXxXxxx where xX are a combination of upper lower case letters
Configuration guides for Zen-supplied equipment can be found here: http://www.zen.co.uk/support
______________________________________________________
The above should be in an Email confirming the order with BT
Regards Jeff
edit more info
Advanced details
Your modem or router MAY also ask for the following configuration information:
Connection type: PPPoA
VPI value: 0
VCI Value: 38
Encapsulation type: VC-MUX (or VC based)
Modulation: G.DMT (or DMT)
Authentication type: CHAP (may be listed as "PAP or CHAP")
If you are asked for any IP address details you should generally choose `automatic' or `dynamic'. This will enable our server to assign the correct static IP details automatically when you login.
**The following information should ONLY be used by a network administrator or computer expert. This information is typically not required for normal setup.**
IP address information:
xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx. (Subnet mask 255.255.255.255) where xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx. is your ip address
Primary DNS: 212.23.3.100 these may differ ?
Secondary DNS: 212.23.6.100
-
Thanks Jeff. I have a note of my user / pass and the relevant router settings. Appreciate the assistance all the same though (same goes to everyone who has taken the time to post).
The line has been ok (well... useable) for about 12 months (400kbps-1meg with mid 50s attenuation), its only the last 10 days that the profile has dropped a lot. The ping is still solid (good old Zen!).
To summarise my experiences with routers:
D-Link G604T: Syncs in 10 seconds ish and connects instantly to Zen at between 1.6 - 1.8 sync (though the DSLAM profile is still 135kbps - 10 days running so far).
Netgear D834G: Syncs in 20-40 seconds (if at all) and refuses to connect despite having used the correct user / pass.
EDIT:
A few more details:
I've tried multiple filters, 2 routers and multiple RJ / phone cables. I just tried an Alcatel Green Frog USB modem (really old thing I had from BT Openworld days). It could not sync at all. I am using the test socket under the faceplate.
I am going to try an AM/MW radio transmitter (tuned into 612khz) to see if there is a REIN problem with any appliances nearby.
Here is the status on the BT fault log:
Fault Type: PILOT ADSL Intermittent
01. Describe the fault condition (including any packet loss/latency issues), and when it was noticed:
The line is very intermittent. It appears to have a severe noise spike and drops the sync speed to 160kb/s. The customer then needs to reboot the modem before the speed will re-adjust.
02. When did this issue start?
I looked back 11months and in that time it had 1 1day connection. The rest of the time it was intermittent.
03. The line drops at
During AM Slot
Outside of appt. slots
The bulk of the drops are at 7am and 8am and 10pm and 11pm.
04. Detail any recent changes, PEW.s, MSO.s or adverse weather conditions:
no changes
05. Does this look like it could be REIN?
yes it does. More over it looks like it could be due to high load on the line card
06. RRT Data:
RRT Downstream trends (min / max / avg)
Line rate: 160 / 2048 / 1458
Noise margin: 6 / 18 / 12
Transmission Errors: 5 / 3600 / 819
Line Attenuation: 55 / 60 / 56
Uptime: 21937 / 86163 / 52050
Initializations: 0 / 2 / 3
RRT Upstream trends (min / max / avg)
Line rate: 448 / 448 / 448
Noise margin: 14 / 21 / 18
Transmission Errors: 11 / 3600 / 3192
Line Attenuation: 34 / 34 / 34
This circuit is up 60.0% of the time
07. xDSL Data:
Upstream
Loop Loss: 34 dB
SNR Margin: 18 dB
Errored Seconds: 0
HEC Errors: 0
Cell Count: 870046204
Speed: 448
Downstream
Loop Loss: 55 dB
SNR Margin: 11 dB
Errored Seconds: 0
HEC Errors: 0
Cell Count: 1933202468
Speed: 1632
BIP Interface Data
Current line rate: 135
MSR: 1152
FTR: 921
Interleaving: A
08. Checked the telephone service working ok
All Clear
Voice line is clear
09. Detail the make model and firmware of the customer router?
Originally a Dlink 604T was bieng used. A new modem is now being used and I will need to check what the verison is.
10. Describe what you have done with the router, include reboots, password checks, factory reset, filters, sockets tried:
Modem and filters were swapped out. In the test socket and sky box removed,
11. Has an alternative router been tested?
Yes
TBA
12. Engineer charge confirmed and accepted?
No
I have not spoken to Nathan about this yet. This will need to be done.
13. Confirm the setup at the customer's end that has been agreed to be left powered for the fault duration:
NTe5 Test ---> Filters ---> Modem
-
Router now only seems to be syncing at 160kbps. Previously I could restart the router and it would resync higher, however I've spent 10mins (around 7-8 sync attempts) and each time it is coming up as 160kbps (and taking longer than normal to sync). The line appears to be getting worse if anything.
-
In some ways a more serious fault is better as it should be easier to diagnose.
I suggest you leave well alone as continuous manual restarts of the modem won't help and will give Zen false data.
You need that BT appointment via Zen PDQ in my opinion.
Kind regards,
Walter
-
The BT fault log was closed earlier in the week. BT speed test is now reporting:
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2656 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2000 Kbps
Thanks to Leo and anyone else at Zen who helped resolve the problem.