Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: MALC on July 22, 2009, 07:53:52 PM
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Can anyone help. I am unable to have telephone conversations when my Netgear router is turned on due to extreme interference. I have tried new filters and siting the phone some distance from the router all with no success. I have also connected an ordinary phone and disconnected the cordless phone still with no change. :(
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Hi Malc and welcome,
Can you tell us a bit more about your router and whether you're using a wireless link on it?
I'd be surprised if we can't offerr a few suggestions.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Hi
Can you post your router stats .
Regards Jeff
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We need to find out if its the wireless, or if its the actual router. There should be a setting where you can turn the wireless off.
Is everthing ok when the router is turned off completely.. what happens if the router is still switched on but not attached to the phone line.
>> I am unable to have telephone conversations when my Netgear router is turned on due to extreme interference.
The usual reason is incorrectly installed filters or a faulty filter. Is there a telephone device on the property which isnt filtered - such as a sky box?
Check that no devices are attached to the dsl side of the filter.. noise is usually due to the telephone picking up the dsl data unfiltered.
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Hi
Can you post your router stats .
Regards Jeff
Good idea, but it would be useful to see the full set of stats and see if theres any errors.
The instructions to get the basic stats are here
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php#32
Full stats on the netgear are a bit more difficult.. it depends how technical you are and which version of the netgear you have, but its the same instructions as to find out for interleaving
http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/netgeardg834_interleaving.htm
If you have problems dont worry.. and dont hesitate to ask for further help if needed.
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Thanks to you all for the replies. It all sounds a bit complicated. Routers are not my strong point . I will have to look at the suggested link to find out how to get stats. By the way what are the stats, are they the settings?
With the router on and disconnected from the tel line the interference is still there. I use a cable connection to a desktop, my wife has a laptop with a wireless connection. The broadband side of things works perfectly.
Someone has suggested I should change the channel in case the cordless phone uses the same or near channel. Ive disconnected the cordless and used a normal phone and its just the same. Could it be interference from a neighbours router which might be using the same channel?
My Netgear router is DG834PN.
By the way I only have the incoming tel connection and 1 extension, there is a filter on both and I have tried a number of different filters all having no effect. Ive also disconnected the extension.
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The stats are just the router statistics - basically a readout of numbers that relate to various parameters of your ADSL connection, something akin to a dashboard on a car. Other parts of the following graphical user interface are for adjusting the settings.
For a DG834N, uing a web browser, and assuming you are still using the default Netgear IP address, go to (just click the link) http://192.168.0.1 (http://192.168.0.1)
You will be prompted for a user name and password
Default user name = admin
Password = password
Using the menu on the left choose:
Router Status
"Show Statistics" Button
You can then copy and paste your stats into the forum.
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Ive got the stats but doesnt seem to want to copy and paste. Is there any particular stat(s) that I can give you that might help? Noise Margin for example. Sorry to labour on this but I do appreciate the help.
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If you can provide the following (for both downstream and upstream):
Connection Speed
Line Attenuation
Noise Margin
For future reference it's also possible to take a 'screen-grab' using the the 'print screen' button on your keyboard and pasting the image into Microsoft Paint (assuming you are using Windows). You can then edit and upload the image to a forum etc.
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As requested Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4256kbps 448kbps
Line Attenuation 15.0 db 9.0 db
Noise Margin 19.4 db 16.0 db
Hope this helps
Many thanks MALC
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>> The broadband side of things works perfectly.
There is very obviously a problem somewhere with the line. Those stats can tell us quite a bit about a line, and your broadband is actually performing quite poorly and you are not running anywhere near its full potential
A 15dB atten line should be able to easily sync at the full 8Mb and youre only getting about half that.
Your SNRM (Noise Margin) is very high, even if for some reason you have a high Target SNR (which a 15dB atten line shouldnt), then the fact its now at 19.4 shows that you have some pretty large SNR fluctuations.
Large fluctuations in SNR can be the result of a few things... but usually some sort of ElectroMagnetic Interference, a fault on the telephone line, or a problem with filters.
>> With the router on and disconnected from the tel line the interference is still there.
ok.. from that Im going to assume that the filters are actually ok.. so its looking like theres possibly some sort of EMI coming from the router itself.. possibly the powerbrick. Its unusual for it to be the router itself, and more often its something like the PC monitor for example that is the usual culprit.
I'd like you to check please that its not PC related, and then I'd also like you to eliminate a physical line fault.
Theres a special test you can use to check for noise on the line - its called the Quiet Line test.
You do this by phoning 17070 and selecting option 2.
Try the above test in various situations.
~ With router disconnected from the phone line and unplugged
~ With router connected to the phone line but unplugged from the electricity.
~ It would be good if you could keep the electric plugged in but the router switched off.. but I dont think the DG834N has a power button on the back.. this probably wont help much for testing and probably wont show anything but leave the power brick connected and unplug power from back of router.
Obviously I cant say for sure.. but it does seem like you have an EMI problem caused by some faulty electrical equipment. Your line stats show that its also affecting your broadband.
The stats you posted above defintely show that there is a problem with your adsl, most likely internal. If you could provide us with a fresh set of line stats immediately after the router has been switched on it may give us an indication of how long this has been going on, and how severe by looking at your Target SNRM. The only way we can hazard a guess what your Target SNR is, is by looking at your Noise Margin as soon as your router boots up.
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Hi
quote Ive got the stats but doesnt seem to want to copy and paste
If you need to copy the stats try this .
press Printscreen
open Paint ,
click edit ,
click paste ,
using the cursor copy the box containing the statistics .
click file ,
click new . when save option box opens select "don't save ".
paste into the empty Paint window the previously copied stats .
click file ,
select "save as " . save to desktop easy to retrieve and delete when finished)
This file can be attached to the post you are sending
see attached as an example
regards jeff
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Is this a recent problem - have you been able to use the DG834N without any issues before now?
As kitz has already pointed out, with a downstream line attenuation of 15 dB (if this is accurate you have a short line and should be close to the telephone exchange), you should be connecting with a much higher speed and seeing a much higher throughput - have you had faster speeds in the past or has it always connected around the speed you are currently seeing?
What kind of master socket (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm) do you have?
Do you have another modem/router that you can use to test the line with?
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Hi
As requested
Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7616 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 15 db 9 db
Noise margin 20 db 23 db
These figs obtained when first switching on router
Regarding the other tests using Quiet Line
There was no noise with any of the combinations.
Interestingly, at the moment, there is no interference with our telephone line.
One point. Could it be interference from a nearby network? I am using the default channel ie 11.
Hope these figs help.
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Those figures look much better.. 7616 is full sync and what your line should be able to achieve.
The 20dB Noise Margin is now telling us, not your Target SNR, but the fact that your line is actually capable of speeds much higher than 8Mb when adsl2+ becomes available.
At the moment that line is running well... so this fits in with the fact that theres no interference on the telephone line.
>> One point. Could it be interference from a nearby network? I am using the default channel ie 11.
I dont think its anything to do with the wireless channel.. its far more likely to have been some form of interference from a nearby electromagnetic source.
Usual culprits are monitors, TVs, PIR lighting or some faulty electrical equipment. These may either be in your own property or a neighbouring one.
Your latest stats seem to show that whatever it was has cleared for now.... lets hope it stays that way :fingers:
What we normally recommend if this becomes an intermittent or frequent problem is installing routerstats (http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm) which can be set up to constantly monitor and record your line stats.
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;D
Just to thank everybody who replied to my request for help, particularly Kitz. The line is still clear and tel conversations are as they should be.
In doing the tests on the quiet line, the only cable that was resited was from the power supply to the router. From your suggestions I wonder if this cable could have been the culprit. Ive not moved it again and will see if the interference returns.
I feel more confident with the router since 'speaking' to you all and will certainly let others know of your very helpful forum. I have been reading some of the articles on your website re routers and stats and found them very good.
Many thanks
Malc.
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So far so good :)
I'm sure I have read something somewhere about some problems with the newer type of Netgear switched mode power supply unit causing interference - I think it's the newer 'slim type' PSU that was causing problems. For interests sake can you post the model of power supply unit that you have?
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So glad that the problem remains clear thank you for letting us know. :)
>> the only cable that was resited was from the power supply to the router. From your suggestions I wonder if this cable could have been the culprit.
As mentioned previously it is far more likely to have been the 'power brick' side than the router itself. Another slim possibility could be that if the power cord wasnt perhaps properly plugged in then that could be causing it. One of my netgears gives off a bit of hiss sometimes if its fully plugged in at the back of the router.
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I have come accross routers which seemed to produce a lower frequency noise which out of the range of the microfilter and by that fact audible on normal telephony. the only way of checking this is if the effect dissapears with another router/modem sync-ed (dosn't have to be logged on to the isp so don't worry about resetting passwords/user names etc)
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Morning All,
My personal opinion on this one, is that there is still some noise somewhere causing an issue. As it has been suggested, this could be caused by power adapters and the likes.
Keep an eye on the SNR and the line speeds and see if it changes, then move cables and the likes making note of the stats.
Leo