Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: Dwight on August 30, 2022, 01:45:16 PM
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Hi.
One for the Academics out there!
If Germany has an open market for its ONTs, does the rest of Europe?
and if so.
Why can't we have the same?
Thanks.
David
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Because our telcos currently don't want the hassle of dealing with compatibility issues and having to get end users to call and pair up their own ONT?
Honestly, having the demarcation point being the ethernet port of an ONT is FAR better for the end user, as long as the ONT provides a bridge mode. If it breaks, the ISP replaces it and the end user gets a much wider choice of router hardware.
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Hi.
One for the Academics out there!
If Germany has an open market for its ONTs, does the rest of Europe?
and if so.
Why can't we have the same?
Thanks.
David
Who is we, which country, this may interest you:
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,26900.0.html
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Who is we, which country, this may interest you:
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,26900.0.html
I think that's very much the point, we have to jump through hoops so its less appealing and there is little market for the hardware.
Though this still applies to many countries including in Europe too, they gain the benefit of being a large landmass so it doesn't take many networks allowing you to use your own ONT to make it a viable market.
On the other hand AFAIK no telco in the UK allows using your own ONT (officially) so there is no reason to ship those products here at all, other than to the networks themselves.
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It should just be this:
https://www.fs.com/uk/products/133619.html
and the serial from your current ONT to replace the ONT.
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It should just be this:
https://www.fs.com/uk/products/133619.html
b*cat smiles, enigmatically, and nods his head. :)
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Excellent!
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Hi Gents,
This is the thing, I would like only one box to do it all.
But have also heard, that Dream Machine Pro SE being used direct with optical line. Way out of my league!
So yes, it would be nice to have an ONT/Router that would server all. Also I would think it would give consumers a better choice. As news groups are still full of awful wifi from the mainstream hubs, and VM don't get started on that!
So thanks for all your input and I will delve deeper.
https://service-provider.tp-link.com/gpon/archer-xr500v/
Something like this i was thinking!
Dwight
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How does it give customers a better choice?
With a dedicated ONT you can use any ethernet router, if it breaks its the ISPs problem not mine, compatibility is guaranteed.
If the ONT is built-in then you're talking a much more specialist item. Even if they become more common as FTTP becomes standard, there's another problem.
So you bought an ONT gateway, it has GPON, you want to upgrade your package and oh dear, your network wants to move you onto XGSPON. If you spent a fortune then maybe you can swap your GPON SFP ONT for a XGSPON SFP+ ONT, if you didn't then oh dear, new router time.
In my configuration with the Openreach ONT (max 2.5W), pfSense box (~11w) and dedicated Access Point (not sure the power consumption), I have a better configuration than an all-in-one. If using your own ONT becomes a thing, odds are standalone ONTs will die off so I'd have to use a gateway/router all-in-one in bridge mode, which would use a LOT more electricity than a standalone ONT as you can't generally turn off the power to the components you don't need like WiFi.
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If using your own ONT becomes a thing, odds are standalone ONTs will die off so I'd have to use a gateway/router all-in-one in bridge mode, which would use a LOT more electricity than a standalone ONT as you can't generally turn off the power to the components you don't need like WiFi.
If that situation ever became true, you would use a media converter with a SFP+ cage (for the GPON or XGSPON optic) and an Ethernet port (to provides the connectivity for your gubbins).
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If that situation ever became true, you would use a media converter with a SFP+ cage (for the GPON or XGSPON optic) and an Ethernet port (to provides the connectivity for your gubbins).
So basically you're just back to a dedicated ONT, destroying the whole original point.
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So basically you're just back to a dedicated ONT,
Yes. That, I thought, was what you would actually prefer . . . ::)
And, of course, you could do that today. But don't tell anyone that I mentioned it.
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If that situation ever became true, you would use a media converter with a SFP+ cage (for the GPON or XGSPON optic) and an Ethernet port (to provides the connectivity for your gubbins).
The previous landlord provided internet like that to all the premises in his business park.
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Yes. That, I thought, was what you would actually prefer . . . ::)
And, of course, you could do that today. But don't tell anyone that I mentioned it.
It is of course what I'd have to do if we get there, but you missed my previous point that I like that the ONT is the networks responsibility - even though that can be a slight disadvantage due to longer downtime if it fails waiting for a replacement.
I guess if some cheap pfSense appliances appear with SFP+ ports, I'd possibly feel differently.
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I myself would like to be able to have a duplicate, ready programmed ONT on-site, in case of disastrous hw failure.
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Hi.
One for the Academics out there!
If Germany has an open market for its ONTs, does the rest of Europe?
There's a German law that prevents ISP's/network operators from forcing customers in to using specific CPE.
It only applies in Germany.
Why can't we have the same?
I don't think it's a good idea, particularly with GPON.
A naughty ONT can affect the whole PON.
If your network operator upgrades from GPON to XGS-PON then your ONT/router could become an expensive paperweight.
It isn't the same as using a modem/router on FTTC.
The ONT is the demarcation point. It's where Openreach's network ends and yours begins.
Think of the ONT as a powered master socket.
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Exactly.
With DSL at worst you will bork your own line, with FTTP you could take down the whole PON.
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It is of course what I'd have to do if we get there, but you missed my previous point that I like that the ONT is the networks responsibility - even though that can be a slight disadvantage due to longer downtime if it fails waiting for a replacement.
I guess if some cheap pfSense appliances appear with SFP+ ports, I'd possibly feel differently.
Don't want to upset you Alex, but they already do!
But it was just a discussion point, as I have a little flat and I would prefer 1 box does all.
Once I win the lottery and have time to fiddle then yes. A box for all seasons might be the answer.
But for know it seems suppliers over substance and we have to have the cheapest bulk buy option from our Fiber suppliers.
Thanks all for your comments.
David.
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I guess if some cheap pfSense appliances appear with SFP+ ports, I'd possibly feel differently.
I'm sure there is something in the MikroTik (https://mikrotik.com/products) range that will do the job in place of your pfSense box. You would then just need a GPON-ONU-34-20BI (https://www.fs.com/uk/products/133619.html) from FS (https://www.fs.com/uk), plus a few other incidentals. :angel:
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I did say pfSense for a reason, I had considered moving to OPNsense but moving all my firewall rules and VPNs over would be a pain. So no, moving to RouterOS is not a viable option at all.
Also bear in mind my router cost £148.65, is capable of 2.5Gbit (though how much over PPP I'm not sure) and low enough power to run over PoE. If I moved it next to my ONT I could run that off the same PoE splitter even. You're talking about getting an ONT 1/3 the price my router was, to replace something that does the job perfectly fine (and I don't have to pay to replace if it breaks) and they haven't left enough spare fibre for me to comfortable put my router there anyway.
Technically I could run a VM on my Server/NAS and switch its NIC to a two-port model, but its nowhere near the fibre so I'd have to use an extension and out of curiosity I did look and couldn't find one. Plus technically that's in breach of the contract with Openreach as I shouldn't be touching anything before the ONT.
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Because our telcos currently don't want the hassle of dealing with compatibility issues and having to get end users to call and pair up their own ONT?
Honestly, having the demarcation point being the ethernet port of an ONT is FAR better for the end user, as long as the ONT provides a bridge mode. If it breaks, the ISP replaces it and the end user gets a much wider choice of router hardware.
Pretty much this, all the g.inp problems OR have had were I expect mostly down to their open policy on modems which they probably ended up regretting.
Likewise why also SRA never took off in the UK in the ADSL days, as that was extremely spotty support on modems.