Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: tarka on August 01, 2008, 07:38:12 PM
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Hi all, i have bought a Thomson speedtouch 585v6 , which is a miracle in a box. But its come with firmware 6.2.17.5. I want to downgrade to 6.1 to use DMT tools. I downloaded the wizard and firmware but it says "not compatible" when i select the new firmware. Im not sure wether i need the bewholesale or belite firmware but neither work and the next button is greyed out so i cant go any further. There is also no wizard on the AOL disc that came with it. Also the router was not locked to AOL for anyone who sees one on ebay and is tempted but unsure. Is it possible to downgrade?
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Ive just had a quick google
From Zen forums here (http://forum.zensupport.co.uk/thread/29080.aspx)
I have recently purchased a SpeedTouch 585 v.6 (not from Zen) that came with the latest 'official' firmware installed 6.2.17.5 - software variant DG.
I had a little 'play' with upgrading/downgrading the firmware; to familiarise myself with the process. I "downgraded" to 6.1.4.3. The router does not appear to like downgrading and it took three attempts before I succeeded.
and from whirlpool forums here (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/766594.html)
See the post by Majed who was having problems downgrading from 6.2.17.5
and Revs Per Mins reply which seemed to work
Follow the bootp instructions.
The easiest way to get the newer ST516/536/546/580/585 routers into bootp state is to do the following:
It is helpful though not essential to have the pc with a fixed static ip.
1. Begin with the unit powered off via the power switch at the back depressed.
2. Get a pin or a pen with a long enough nose to reach the reset button and hold it in.
3. Continue holding your pin or... on the reset button and do not release it. Power the unit on by pressing the power button into the "on" state never releasing the reset.
4. Hold the reset button in for around 15 seconds. The power and Ethernet light should flash between red and green.
5. Run the SpeedTouch firmware upgrade wizard. You only have around 1min to start the wizard before the speedtouch will revert to the normal boot up.
Note: It is always recommended to run the SpeedTouch firmware upgrade wizards with a statically set IP address on your PC of the following:
IP: 10.0.0.1, Subnet: 255.0.0.0, Default Gateway: 10.0.0.138.
Note: It is best to have all security programmes (firewalls, antivirus) either disabled or turned completely off. (Edit from Revs. It is absolutely essential not just best. The worst product is Symantec internet security because people don't know it is on. Turn everything symantec off (permanently would be best!!).
This will ensure a successful upgrade.
Regards,
Scott
SpeedTouch NZ Support Team
www.speedtouch.net.nz
In NZ english pin and pen are identical items!!
Don't forget when you are finished to return your network settings back to auto. Although Scott put in a gateway this is not necessary. Just the ip and subnet are enough.
Good Luck :)
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Wow thanks Kitz. I must admit the SNR results from the 585 are truly incredible! I will post the graphs to my other thread once i am completely sorted. The only problem i have now is that my SNR margin is set (by the looks of things) to 15db hence wanting to downgrade so i can use DMT. Unless i am able to get Zen to retrigger the 10 day period? The advise in your reply is great but i dont know how to set up a static IP? Any pointers or links to useful sites please?
Many thanks :)
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When they say static IP, what I think they mean they should have said was assign a fixed IP to a machine
Theres instructions at the bottom of this page here (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/router.htm).
For a ST router the info you will need to put in should be
For the IP address try 192.168.1.2
Subnet mask 255.255.255.0
Default gateway 192.168.1.254
You will also be asked for your ISP DNS Servers (http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/dns.htm)
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Thanks again Kitz. Before i start though as my line stats are so stable now is it at all possible to get Zen to retrigger the 10 day thing or should i just go ahead and downgrade the firmware and use DMT?
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If you want your SNR reset to the default of 6dB then Zen should raise a call with BT, to reset your SNR at the BT exchange. Having to reset the connection and start a full 10 day retraining period is a tad OTT.
HTH.
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Do you think? because the alternative is to wait perhaps weeks to see if my ip profile changes with the newly improved line quality or downgrade my router firmware. And i have read that many people have had a more stable connection with v2 than v1. The point is that i dont want to keep turning my router on and off if im to let the exchange believe that things are good now. And it might not be necesary to use the DMT tool as my SNR only fluctuates by 1db at any time. So starting from scratch on a stable line might be a quicker and less disruptive route to take. Just my thinking, i could be wrong.
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Target SNR request is much quicker and easier than a full reprofile request, and should do what you need.
BTw are a bit funny full resets and target SNR changes.. so its still often easier for some of us to change things ourselves using the likes of DMT tool
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Thanks Kitz. I thought it was something that could be done pretty much straight away without any fuss. So on that note i will downgrade and use DMT. For the firmware do i use the 6.1.4.3 BeLite or BeWholesale version?
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I called Zen technical support today but they did not know which version to use. So i tried both. Following the instructions above and many others i have found via google i just can not get it to downgrade. It wont even try. In the upgrade wizzard i select the firmware (6.1.4.3) and under "remark" it says "not compatible" every time. Any ideas pleae?
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Firmware for Be isn't much use to you as I suspect you won't have a clue about how to rewrite profiles?
You need the generic Thomson firmware and not one customised for other ISPs.....
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Any ideas where i can find a generic 6.1.4.3 please. I have had a really good look about on various forums with no luck. Or if some one has it could they P.M me and arrange to e-mail it to me. Thanks :)
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Having said that, if anyone has that firmware specifically for AOL then i might be in with a better chance. The generic version would still be gratefully accepted though.
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It was available on the Thomson site,
http://www.thomson.net/GlobalEnglish/SelfService/dsl-modems-download/Pages/default.aspx
but it seems to have vanished and they are only offering the Be versions. :'(
Ive done a search and cant seem to find it available for download..
However I have found someone that says they have a copy - Alecto - which he may be able to send you.
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=10915&p=105786
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Thanks Kitz, again, lol. He doesnt seem to mind mailing it to people so i pm'd him asking for it. If i get it i am happy to mail it to anyone here who wants it as its so hard to find.
One question. When getting the router to Bootp the instructions on the post above say the power and ethernet lights will flash red and green. On mine the power light went orange and only the ethernet light flashed green and then the upgrade wizzard didnt ask for the router password anymore, well, for 1 minute or so. It said something about kernel in the box instead. With the flashing lights being different, does this mean it wasnt in the right state to be flashed?
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For anyone looking for Speedtouch firmware there's a large collection here (http://mirror.opensourcehub.com/pub/speedtouch/routers/) but it doesn't seem to have the one you're looking for.
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Good Luck tarka.
Yes I'll take a copy if you get one please. Even though I use the Be version, having seen how hard it was to try and track down that particular version, it may be an idea to keep a copy on the site which is available for download.
One thing I did notice when I was searching for the firmware is that an awful lot of people seemed to be having problems downgrading, but it did normally go eventually.
One post I saw made mention that the router kept timeouting before the update was complete, which he resolved by resetting it again manually.
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Thanks guys. I havent had a reply from him yet but if i do get the firmware i will share it straight away. As for downgrading, i cant even get it to start. It just says not compatible. Im wondering if this one is locked to AOL and maybe its not possible at all. Still, i wont give up just yet.
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Yes please do let us know how you get on.
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Well, i have the firmware now. If anyone wants it just pm me an email address and i will be happy to share it. Unfortunately for me its been a no go. The upgrade wizzard still says not compatible. I have tried everything i can think of and have found on the net. The most obvious problem seems to be that the power and ethernet lights wont flash alternate red and green. I get permanent orange power light and flashing green ethernet light. I think maybe because of this i cant get it to enter the flash state it needs to be in. Its "not compatible" every time with every firmware. I am pretty sure it is locked to AOL. So, although its a superb router which has completely solved my SNR problems i am stuck at SNR 15db and cant use the DMT tool as my firmware is wrong.
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OK more googling, and it does indeed appear that you may have a router that is indeed locked to AOL...
However, try this from ΜinOtaVrS (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/832978.html)
Unlock AOL ST585v6sl GUI Interface
================================== ===
Ηοw to: Unlock AOL ST585v6sl Web Admin Interface
================================== ===
Click here i29.tinypic.com/4h7ekg.jpg to see th Locking Toolbox via original files
Click here i25.tinypic.com/vqmdzt.jpg to see Unlocking Τοolbox via modification files
Time: 5 minutes
Via FTP Client go at speedtouch /dl/ directory and copy the 3 files of dl.rar
MS Word ή Νotepad
FlashFXP ή οποιοσδήποτε FTP Client
================================== =============
A. Download the modification files from here
rapidshare.com/files/95221413/dl.rar
1. Unrar the dl.rar at ur desktop
2. Open user.ini with un editor (like ms word or notepad) make e search and replace "YOURNAME" with ur ISP username. Save.
B. Connect @ Speedtouch via FTP Client to /dl/ directory
1. Backup all files from /dl/τoυ Speedtouch
2. Upload the modification files user.ini, vo_ny_dy5.tpl & security.cfg from dl.rar
C. Go to ur browser @ Web interface (192.168.1.254) and type
Username: admin
Password: password
user/pass for the additional accounts
Administrator/password
admin/password
No login password for users
root2
SuperUser
mino
U can see photos with unlocking Web interface here
minotavrs.blogspot.com/2...i-interface.html
and full feedback reports in Hellenic language (Greek) here
www.adslgr.com/forum/sho...1024#post1841024
Good luck
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Thanks for taking the time Kitz. But i tried that too. I can delete all 3 files from the router via ftp but i cant restore or edit the "user.ini" file. I then have to restore the router config via the routers control panel. Shame but it looks like they have that stitched up too.
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:(
Sorry Im at a loss now what to suggest :'(
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Hey thats OK. Thanks for trying :) My brother has just bought 2 factory refurb 585v6 routers from ebay. Hopefully being from the factory maybe they will work. If not, then a call to zen for a 10 re-trigger (hopefully) and that will be about all my options burnt out i think.
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Hi all. I'm back with some good news and with some doubts. I now have another 585v6, this one was a factory refurb. It downgraded to v6.1.4.3 no problem at all and has the unlocked GUI. Also DMT tool works perfectly. After sliding the SNR bar to minimum and a re-sync my connection went from 1620 to 2360. A nice improvement i thought, until i download a file and my download speed has not actually altered at all, still 120 - 139, strange? Also my target SNR was set to 15 and there isnt enough scope on the slider in DMT to get it down to 6db. The lowest i am able to get it is 10db. But the scariest thing is that while using DMT my connection dropped, for 9 hours! I dont know if Zen sensed something and disconnected me as a warning or a caution but i have never had no internet for 9 hours before. I had a DSL signal, but the log on the router says i was being refused connection to ppp something or other .miltonkeyns. There was no scheduled maintenance last night with ZEN. A tad worrying. I am using the old router again at the moment and dont know wether to carry on with DMT or not.
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>> my download speed has not actually altered at all, still 120 - 139, strange?
Not really it can take a while before your IP profile (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm) catches up to the new sync speed. Depending on the amount of increase it can take anything from a few hours to a few days.
>> Also my target SNR was set to 15 and there isnt enough scope on the slider in DMT to get it down to 6db.
Thats the unfortunate thing with DMT on the speedtouches.. since it works on a % basis then theres only so far you can take it. :(
>> I dont know if Zen sensed something and disconnected me as a warning or a caution but i have never had...
Highly doubtful.
As long as you have sync, then the theory is you should be able to authenticate, its the next stage of the login process.
PPP session is normally login at the ISP, and part of the authentication process. There is however a smaller first step which is authentication at the RAS.
Theres a couple of tests that you can perform to see if authentication is failing on the BT network, or if its on the ISP network.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/bttest.htm
Failure to log in to the ISP is normally an invalid username + password - or the ISP has problems.
Failure to log in at the BT level is a problem with your own equipment, or the line, or the routing anywhere from the exchange to the RAS over the BT backhaul.
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Lol, thanks KItz. As you can see i am making slow but steady progress. It feels like i have hit a million problems since i started off here a couple of months back, but i have also come a long way as i knew absolutely nothing about ADSl when i started. The good thing is that i have managed to achieve everthing i set out to do with the help of you guys. So, i will plug the other router back in, fire up DMT again and hit save settings this time as it seemed very stable, and then wait for the ip profile to catch up. When you said "as long as you have sync" did you mean, as long as the DSL light is lit on the router? sound like a daft question but im just confirming that you meant as long as my line is still DSL anabled but not actually connected to the internet.
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>> did you mean, as long as the DSL light is lit on the router
Yes :)
>> sound like a daft question but im just confirming
Not a daft question at all. The dsl light on your router indicates that you are connected to the exchange ok and that your router and the dslam at the exchange can "hear" each other ok. It does depends on the make of router, but normally a steady solid green light indicates that all is well. A steady/slow flash indicates the router is attempting to connect/hasnt been able to connect yet... whilst a fast flashing can indicate the transfer of data between the 2.
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Ah ok, as i thought. Thank you. I will put it down to a Zen problem or maintenance and carry on :) I noticed that i could shut down DMT without losing the new settings but If i shut down the PC without hitting save settings on DMT will the new SNR settings be lost? Im just being cautious because this page http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/DMTv7.htm says to make sure your happy with the settings before you save them as they flash the memory of the router?
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>> If i shut down the PC without hitting save settings on DMT will the new SNR settings be lost
Yes - hitting the save button on DMTtool sends the "saveall" telnet command to the router, so that it stores it in memory. Unless you've sent the saveall command then the setting will be lost next time you start up the router.
Even if youve saved, DMT still allows you to return back to the default values.
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Hi there. Well, things are going really well. Sitting pretty with my DMT settings for 3 days now. I think i might be able to sqeeze a bit more from it as SNR is 10db and only fluctuates by 1db at any time of day. Only question is, am i getting more errors than i should like to have or am i able to squeeze DMT down to 6db safely?
Link Information
Uptime: 3 days, 3:55:10
Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 2,336
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 164.84 / 3.44
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 17.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 31.5 / 62.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 11.0 / 9.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / µ
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 2,226 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 90 / 292,913
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 118 / 8,669
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 66 / 7,570
Thanks in advance :)
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Depends if the errors were burst errors or evenly spread out over time.
- The reason I mention that is I know there was thunderstorms in some parts of the country yesterday which could have increased those errors.
If those errors were spread out evenly over 72 hours then it roughly equates to 31 Errored Seconds per hour, which is ok.
If you have a high burst of errors in a small time frame, thats when the router would enter whats called more serious "alarm states" which can lead to the possible eventual loss of sync. Your router hasnt recorded any of the higher level alarm states (LoF or LoS), so it looks like its coping quite well atm.
More info Errors and the various Error alarm states (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats_errors.htm)
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A friend just gave me his unwanted 585v6 still wrapped up in the box, as it came from AOL. Checked the firmware and it is v6.2.29.2. I am not bothered about using it with the DMT tool (don't run MSWindows) but I am bothered about being able to access the full suite of CLI commands (and if need be have the ability to reduce the SNRM). For CLI purposes is v6.2.29.2 crippled?
Not having any experience with this modem before, what firmware version do I need for this purpose and how difficult is it to downgrade it if I must?
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6.1.4.3 is the version to get your mits on.
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Thanks Kitz,
I noticed that Thomson's website lists the following firmwares:
Build 6-2-T-2
firmware_UK_gen_ST585v6_en_6-2-T-2 (7/7/2008): english - ZIP (2534 KB)
firmware_UK_AOL_ST585v6_en_6-2-T-2 (7/7/2008): english - ZIP (2532 KB)
Build 6-1-4-3
firmware_UK_Be_ST585v6_en_6-1-4-3 (7/7/2008): english - ZIP (2287 KB)
firmware_UK_Be-Wh_ST585v6_en_6-1-4-3 (7/8/2008): english - ZIP (2287 KB)
Which one of the last two should I try to flash and are there any specific tricks I should take account of?
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You need this one.....ST585v6_6143_UK.bin......
Im going to see if Kitz can put it some where on here for people to download as ive had a few requests for it now.
Kitz, can you give pm me an email to send it too please if possible?
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On the other hand I read here (http://www.modem-help.co.uk/Broadcom/chipsets/dv/BANT-U-ADSL2--USB-Gateway.html) that there's bugs that have been fixed with the latest firmware and also some features added? (e.g. Annex M is now available and SNMP is configurable). Not sure if these apply to ST585 though.
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I use the Be proprietory version of ST585v6_6143.
The only difference being that, unlike all other UK ISPs, Be uses RoutedEthoA so its ready configured for Be rather than PPPoA.
>> Annex M is now available
Which is only available from Be - but I found a way where it can be manually configured in the CLI anyhow.
What are you wanting to do with SNMP, I havent found a problem with it, with what I do.
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Yes, I've just set up mine:
adsl debug multimode config=g992.5_AnnexA+g992.5_AnnexM
adsl debug multimode
saveall
Any idea how I could set it up in a fully bridged mode (no NAT, no DHCP, no DNS) just working as a straight through DSL modem?
Also, how do I set its static LAN IP address to something different than 192.168.0.254?
PS. I just found the complete CLI guide (http://www.speedtouch.com/interface/R585/HTML//html/wwhelp.htm?single=false&context=cli&topic=init) on the Internet!