Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: Oranged on June 27, 2008, 01:09:58 PM
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I have experienced a poor sync rate since mid-April. Connection speed at 1900 - 1950 is constant without any disconnections.
Prior to that my router (Belkin 7633) showed 6656 down 288 up on a normal ADSL LLU connection without interleave and SNR 10 - 13dB, Attenuation 39 and connection would be consistently 5700 - 5800. Again with no disconnections.
Since then I normally have stats showing nothing against ADSL Type, sync at 2268 down 285 up and interleave depth on at 32 down 8 up and SNR 31 down 28 up, Attenuation 41+.
At around this time I believe my ISP, Orange, implemented ADSL2+ at my exchange.
Yesterday, the SNR started steadily dropping and reached 22.6 down 7.5 up by early evening. But during the evening SNR suddenly increased to 31 down 29 up. Coincidentally, it had started raining at around 7pm.
I run XP SP3, I have tested in the test socket with no improvement, I have changed filters with no improvement, I have connected via ethernet (rather than wireless) with no improvement.
I have made a 17070 quiet line test which returned perfect. I have requested Orange to check any changes made to the LLU service at the exchange.
Latest router stats are :
Firewall Enabled ESSID Broadcast Disabled
NAT Enabled Channel 11
UPnP Disabled Security WPA-PSK
ADSL
Type !! N.B. it shows nothing against this !!
Status No Defect
Downstream Upstream
Data rate 2268 285
Noise margin 30.8 16.2
Output power 20.1 11.7
Attenuation 43.5 20.6
DMT shows "ADSL2+ interleaved path"and interleave depth 32 down 8 up. Down RCO 33% (6836kbps) Up RCO 47% (609kbps)
I would appreciate any comments/advice/help
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Hi and welcome
Does the F5D7633 support ADSL2+? I downloaded the manual and didn't see any reference to it in an admittedly quick scan through. If not, that might explain the blank connection type which is shown.
Even so, I don't think that would explain the problem. It looks as though your line is subject to very heavy interference at times. This would cause the low speed reconnection, then when the interference goes away again you are left with a very high noise margin. If the same thing happens when you connect to the test socket, the source of the interference is likely to be some sort of line fault or maybe some heavy electrical machinery nearby. This page (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm) and the associated pages may give you some ideas as to the source.
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Hi and welcome
Does the F5D7633 support ADSL2+? I downloaded the manual and didn't see any reference to it in an admittedly quick scan through. If not, that might explain the blank connection type which is shown.
Yes it does support ADSL2+.
As there is no electrical machinery in the vicinity I guess it could be a line fault.
I did notice a gradual connection speed deterioration starting on 15 April then a sudden drop on Sunday 20 April from 5200 to 1992 with the associated increase in SNR etc.
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>> I have experienced a poor sync rate since mid-April. Connection speed at 1900 - 1950 is constant without any disconnections.
>> sync at 2268 down
>> SNR 31 down
What happens if your try a resync when the SNRM is so high.
Theres plenty of spare SNRM so you should be able to sync much higher than around 2Mb. I want to eliminate the possibility of an incorrect profile.
I know you said the SNRM can drop to 22dB.. but thats still plenty to give much more speed than what you are getting... and some lines do have large SNR variations.
Some line stats immediately after a resync would help us check the profile
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For a fixed speed dsl service then the higher the snr the better, as a rough guide
target would be snr above 9, 6 or under then you'll probably get lots of drop of sync.
In the teens is average.
In the 20's is very good.
In the 30's wow.
low 40's, do you have permission to be inside that exchange ?
With rate adaptive although it's mesuring the same thing (noise over desired signal) Its giving the numbers from a completely different perspective.
so from the snr your currently getting the snrm on rate adaptive should be good which should result in a good download.
The only other thing to check is errors, as theses can come up affecting the speed without having any detriment to the snr/snrm.
on a fixed spped service you not have interleaved packets so the acceptable error rate will be much lower
over a 5 min period: errored seconds <15 , crc & hec errors <60-100 is ok :thumbs:
Interleaved service crc & hec errors up to 1000 are ok, fec & rs errors up to 11000- 14500 are ok over the same period. :thumbs:
It's worth bearing in mind the huge difference in acceptable errors between non interleaved & interleaved dsl, worth bearing in mind if any one's looking to turn interleaving off in order to get a bit more speed which would be proportionatly much smaller gain in comparison to the added venerability you'll get. If you lines always stable with very little in the way of errors, fine. If not worth thinking again :hmm:
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What happens if your try a resync when the SNRM is so high.
Theres plenty of spare SNRM so you should be able to sync much higher than around 2Mb. I want to eliminate the possibility of an incorrect profile.
If I re-sync when the SNRM is around 28/29 then it increases to 30+. If I re-sync when the SNRM is in low 20s then it increases to high 20s.
Currently (2.05pm) it's 29.9/14.0 so I will re-sync and post again.
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The only other thing to check is errors, as theses can come up affecting the speed without having any detriment to the snr/snrm.
on a fixed spped service you not have interleaved packets so the acceptable error rate will be much lower
over a 5 min period: errored seconds <15 , crc & hec errors <60-100 is ok :thumbs:
Interleaved service crc & hec errors up to 1000 are ok, fec & rs errors up to 11000- 14500 are ok over the same period. :thumbs:
It's worth bearing in mind the huge difference in acceptable errors between non interleaved & interleaved dsl, worth bearing in mind if any one's looking to turn interleaving off in order to get a bit more speed which would be proportionatly much smaller gain in comparison to the added venerability you'll get. If you lines always stable with very little in the way of errors, fine. If not worth thinking again :hmm:
Currently with interleave depth 32 up 8 down :-
Counters Down Up
SF: 15858232 15858230
SFErr: 0 1867
RS: 578825498 67397477
RSCorr: 1207 1227049
RSUnCorr: 0 0
HEC: 0 6226
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1376074251 -379150371
Data Cells: 7623194 17210590
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 329087
ES: 0 482
SES: 0 91
UAS: 28 1852
Total time = 1 days 23hours 47min 7sec
SF = 31904995 CRC = 0
LOS = 0 LOF = 0 ES = 0
Latest 1 day time = 23hours 47min 7sec
SF = 5278415 CRC = 0
LOS = 0 LOF = 0 ES = 0
Previous 1 day time = 24hours 0sec
SF = 5325994 CRC = 0
LOS = 0 LOF = 0 ES = 0
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Re-sync at 2.15pm >>>>>
Downstream Upstream
Data rate 2268 285
Noise margin 30.4 33.9
Output power 20.1 11.5
Attenuation 41.0 19.7
See the massive increase in upstream SNRM ?
Edit : just noticed downsteam RCO 30% (7592kbps) upstream RCO 30% (945kbps) this has changed from Post 1
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At 3.10pm I plugged into the test socket and the result >>>>>>>>
Downstream Upstream
Data rate 2268 285
Noise margin 31.4 36.4
Output power 19.9 11.7
Attenuation 40.5 19.5
RCO down 29% (7816kbps) RCO up 30% (945kbps)
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Data rate 2268 285
Noise margin 30.4 33.9
That seems to show that your line is being rate limited to 2Mbps. (A fixed 2Mb account)
If you were on a "up to 8Mb" type account then the Noise Margin would be lower and the sync speed higher.
Your downstream is fine and shows no problems indicating that your line is capable of much higher speeds.
The (downstream) seems very good for a 41dB attenuation line.
just noticed downsteam RCO 30% (7592kbps)
Thats an indicatation of what your router estimates you line should be able to sync at based on the current conditions if it wasnt being rate limited somewhere.
Its normal for this figure to fluctuate slightly on each reboot as it will take into account the current SNR.
Now looking at your stats you dont appear to have any downstream problems but something is niggling me about your upstream.
In actual fact theres something very weird about your SNR compared to your attenuation - in that its VERY good for your supposed line length (as indicated by the atten)... too good.
As a comparison Im on a very short line and these are some stats from when I was on a 2Mb account.
Downstream
Connection 2272
Attenuation 7dB
Noise Margin 31dB
Upstream
Connection 288
Attenuation 4dB
Noise Margin 29dB
I would not expect a 43dB atten line to show similar (or better) stats than this line.
Just how close to the exchange are you? Can you put your phone no and postcode into the adsl line checker (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php) and report what it says about your distance.
Theres a few thoughts going through my head right now - but I need to know your approx distance from the exchange.
If your attenuation is vastly wrong for your line distance then it could show that theres a problem on the line... either that or somethings mis-reporting somewhere... or perhaps your internal wiring/filters.
This is separate to the indications that Orange appear to have you on a fixed 2Mb line... but why would they do that?
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Distance:- Direct: 2.07 km
(appx)* By Road: 4.02 km
As I said in my first post, I understand that Orange implemented ADSL2+ at my exchange around the time the problem started and I think that somehow this has affected my connection. I agree with you that it seems they have put me on a fixed 2Mb connection but being LLU surely this process is more or less automated.
Before this problem, I synced at 6656 with SNRM 10 - 13 and this had been a very stable connection since 25/05/2007.
I removed the ring wire back in May 2007 and have also replaced filters. I am currently connected by ethernet and plugged into the main BT linebox.
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>> (appx)* By Road: 4.02 km
Thanks for the additional info. A 41dB line is about right for line length of around 3-4km. :)
In view of the high SNRM I just wanted to make sure that you werent actually closer and had a line fault that materialed itself by showing a high attenuation.
>> I agree with you that it seems they have put me on a fixed 2Mb connection but being LLU surely this process is more or less automated.
It should be automated.. Theres no public info about how the Orange DLM process works, but in the case of BTs DLM (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl2.htm), if you have a bout of severe errors, the DLM can transfer you automatically to a capped fixed rate service if it thinks it will improve your line.
Again I wanted to ensure that there was nothing strange going on in the background which could have made Orange's DLM to do so. hence the question mark after my last post.
>> I removed the ring wire back in May 2007 and have also replaced filters. I am currently connected by ethernet and plugged into the main BT linebox.
These actions will have maximised your line potential which will in part explain the decent line stats. :)
I think the obvious course of action now is to approach Orange and tell them that you appear to be on a fixed 2Mb line - as indicated by the consistant 2268 sync and plenty of spare SNR Margin.
I'm still not 100% happy about some of the SNR fluctuations but once you arent restricted by the 2Mb fixed rate, then you will be in a much better situation to see what effect (if any) this is having on your line.
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Downstream
Connection 2272
Attenuation 7dB
Noise Margin 31dB
Upstream
Connection 288
Attenuation 4dB
Noise Margin 29dB
Sorry I forgot to comment on your 2Mb stats.
The data that is really puzzling me is that it's 2268/285.......surely a normal fixed 2Mb ADSL LLU would be as yours 2272/288 ?
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Yes it should be with BT.. but with LLU the operators they are free to choose their own parameters.
Many of them do differ slightly from the traditional values that we know with BTWholesale .. with Sky being about the lowest and offering a measly 2000 for their "2Mb profile" when compared to the 2272 of BT.
BT includes the additional to allow for such things as TCP/IP/ATM overheads etc.
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I didn't check the stats until late last night.
Upstream SNRM was an amazing 1.2 at 1am this morning and at 9am this morning was still downstream = 25.5 upstream = 1.3, attenuation = 40.5/19.6.
But as soon as I hit the refresh button in DMT, SNRM moved to 30.3/17.1, attenuation 41.0/20.3
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Now looking at your stats you dont appear to have any downstream problems but something is niggling me about your upstream.
what was niggling me about your upstream was the higher Error Counts
Upstream SNRM was an amazing 1.2 at 1am this morning
.... and the reason why has just shown itself.
Orange appear to have you on a fixed 2Mb line... but why would they do that?
.. and this could possibly be the reason why Orange's DLM* has put you on a capped rate line.
It would appear your upstream has a huge shift in SNRM.. if its getting down to only 1.2dB, then its going to be struggling to hold on to that 285 kbps upstream.
Upstream frequencies are lower, and normally have the least problem.
I know you say you are plugged into the master socket.. but can you just double check your filter... and also it may be an idea to try the test socket behind the faceplate for a while - just for the sake of elimination.
I also recommend that you grab a copy of routerstats (http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm) and configure it to monitor and record your upstream SNRM.
This will hopefully show us how the decline starts and at what time.. and see if it shows a pattern that may help diagnose some sort of interference issue.
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I know you say you are plugged into the master socket.. but can you just double check your filter... and also it may be an idea to try the test socket behind the faceplate for a while - just for the sake of elimination.
I have on various occasions plugged into the test socket for several hours at a time with no improvement shown in sync speed or SNRM.
I have also replaced the plug-in filter, my only other move would be to replace the plug-in filter with a filtered faceplate.
Edit 1 :- I have started running Routerstats and will keep it running for 24 hours.
Edit 2 :- Unable to configure Routerstats for Belkin F5D7633UK4A
Edit 3 :- DMT is showing SNRM 24.5/9.7 at 2:55pm. So there does not appear to be any pattern when SNRM drops.
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Edit 2 :- Unable to configure Routerstats for Belkin F5D7633UK4A
Ive been having a search around and there does appear to be some difficulty in trying to get routerstats to work with the F5D7633. Unfortunately since I dont have one of these routers, Im unable to have a look to see what can be configured.
However, since you are using DMT ok.. then you can try using DMT tool to record your linestats.
- New tutorial Ive just done - Use DMT tool to log and record your linestats. (http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/DMT_logLineStats.htm)
Hope this info helps. :)
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Many thanks for that.....glad you confirm my findings re. this Belkin model.....I thought I was doing something wrong :wall:
I started running the logfile this morning after testing the DMT diagnosis mode config.
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Still running DMT Diagnosis but SNRM has been 30.4+/- 0.2 downstream and 13.8+/- 0.2 upstream all today.
Can wet weather affect the connection within BT's network ?
Because it was most erratic over the last few days when it was or had been raining but today is dry and warm.
I'll leave DMT running all night until noon tomorrow then save the logfile.
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Wet weather can certainly affect the connection if there's a joint somewhere which isn't fully sealed and lets the rain in. This can (for example) cause a temporary partial short-circuit which clears when it all dries out again, or it can cause the joint to corrode.
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But would the cause produce the effect that I'm experiencing ?
Or would I experience disconnections, because even though some of the data is very erratic, I have had a consistently reliable connection since these problems started.
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if your on a fixed speed then with typical snr in the teens the limitations are:
<43db attenuation then 2mb ok
<60db 1mb ok
>60db then go for 0.5mb
if your on 2mb fixed with >43db loss, there's your problem
rate adaptive/max can become particualy tetchy >60db, the snrm really needs to be good to give a chance of giving reasonable service, some errors would probably come about from the line lenght but a large no. of errors particualy upstream would indicate an snr issue, errors are sometimes an indication of snr problems which pop up in too short a burst to register fully on the snrm count.
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DMT diagnosis has not revealed anything unusual happening between 30 June 09:56 and 1 July 12:05. Config. was set to update every 2 minutes.
Data rate stayed steady at 2268/285
Attenuation was steady at 43.5/20.5
Upstream SNRM was steady at 13.8
Downstream SNRM varied between minimum 27.4 (22:42:58 last night) and maximum 30.6 (11:08:58 this morning).
There was a period when it dropped to below 30 and remained there before increasing to above 30, that was between 20:38:57 last night and 04:40:58 this morning.
Re. my reference to weather, it's been dry and warm during this test.
Rain is forecast for tonight and tomorrow so I will run another logfile during that period.
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>> 27.4 (22:42:58 last night) and maximum 30.6
Those fluctuations are within normal parameters - its usual for SNRM to take a dip in the evenings, so thats fine.
>> Re. my reference to weather, it's been dry and warm during this test.
You could be on to something there, its not unknown for some types of line fault only to materialise during wet weather. (water on the line).
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Update on last DMT logfile run from 6pm yesterday, overnight until around 12 noon today.
Unfortunately the rain didn't come to as much as forecasted so DMT results were very similar to previous day's
Data rate steady 2268/285
Attenuation steady 43.5/20.5
Upstream SNRM steady 13.8
Downstream SNRM between 28.1 and 30.6
From 21:08:16 last night until 04:38:16 this morning it was under 30.0
It has been raining this morning so I am running another logfile for as long it rains.
Edit @15:05 > just noticed the downstream SNRM went from 30.5 to 27.4 back 30.3 all in the space of 3 minutes.
Edit @ 18:19 > Upstream SNRM reached <1.0 at around 18:10 and for the first time in a long while I had a disconnection. Re-started eventually at around 18:15 with SNRM 20+/5+ and Attenuation 44.0/21.5, but data rate still 2268/285. DMT still running today's logfile.
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Here are sections of the logfile that ran from 2:25pm yesterday until 10:59am today.
USrate DSrate USatt DSatt USsnr DSsnr
16:40:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 11.6 26.3
16:42:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 11.2 26.3
16:44:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 11.8 26.4
16:46:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 2.2 16.7
16:48:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 10.9 25.9
16:50:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.9 19.9
16:52:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.8 20.9
16:54:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.8 20.8
16:56:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.7 20.9
16:58:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.6 20.8
17:00:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.6 20.8
17:02:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.7 20.8
17:04:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.7 20.8
17:06:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.5 20.8
17:08:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.6 20.8
17:10:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.6 20.7
17:12:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.5 20.6
17:14:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.5 20.7
17:16:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.5 20.6
17:18:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 8.8 24.9
17:20:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 8.8 25.0
17:22:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 8.5 24.8
17:24:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.5 20.6
17:26:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.4 20.7
17:28:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.4 20.6
17:30:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.4 20.6
17:32:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.3 20.6
17:34:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.4 20.6
17:36:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.3 20.6
17:38:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.4 20.6
17:40:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.3 20.6
17:42:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.3 20.6
17:44:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.3 20.6
17:46:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.3 20.6
17:48:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.3 20.6
17:50:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.2 20.5
17:52:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.3 20.5
17:54:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.2 20.5
17:56:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.2 20.4
17:58:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.2 20.5
18:00:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.2 20.4
18:02:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.2 20.4
18:04:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.2 20.4
18:06:58 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.2 20.4
18:08:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.1 20.4
18:10:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.1 20.4
18:12:59 285 2268 20.5 43.5 1.1 20.4 >>>>>>> at this point I lost connection.
18:16:59 285 2268 21.5 44.0 5.1 20.6 >>>>>>> at this point I re-connected
18:18:59 285 2268 21.5 44.0 5.1 20.5
18:20:59 285 2268 21.5 44.0 4.8 20.4
18:22:58 285 2268 21.5 44.0 4.8 20.3
18:24:58 285 2268 21.5 44.0 4.6 20.3
18:26:59 285 2268 21.5 44.0 4.6 20.1
18:28:58 285 2268 21.5 44.0 4.6 20.2
18:30:58 285 2268 21.5 44.0 4.5 20.1
Then from this point >>
18:47:02 285 2268 21.5 44.0 11.0 24.3
it started to stabilise during the evening/night and when the logfile stopped this morning the last data was >>
10:59:02 285 2268 21.5 44.0 10.5 23.9
I would appreciate any "learned" comments as the instability does not seem to be caused by weather and also seems to be unrelated to time.
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OKay, not good, but at least now you have some evidence to show a BT engineer what is happening on your line. You may have to keep it running longer to see if a pattern emerges.
If I were you I would contact my ISP stating that you appear to have a fault on your line, which materialises itself on occasions as very low upstream SNR. Tell them that you have tested from the master socket which doesnt make any difference and that you have completed all the necessary diagnostics yourself that you can.
Mention that it is this fault that is keeping your upstream speed so low and therefore limiting you to the 2000 profile. A 43dB atten line should NOT be limited to only 2000 and therefore you have a fault that needs investigating by a BT engineer.
It may be oxydisation of a joint.. but I really dont know, since that needs a BT engineer to diagnose locally/ onsite now.
Good luck
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Many thanks Kitz and thanks to all who contributed.
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Update:
Waiting on Orange to come back with plan of action (???)....I sent them the DMT results.
But I've had 2 recent disconnections (that's 3 in total) which is very unusual as I said in earlier post.
Each time SNRM re-connects at 30+down / 33+up and stays more or less at that.
I've been running DMT diagnosis non-stop (except for the disconnections) since 3 July so at least I have a record.
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Good idea to keep the DMT running .. more proof for you to show that theres a probable fault some where on the line.
Hope Orange get back to you asap.
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OK, something strange has just occurred and I think it could be significant.
I'm definitely connected to the internet (via ethernet cable to router) but router stats are showing "No Connection" in red with no IPs for DHCP server, Default Gateway, WAN and no LAN MAC address displayed.
Edit : Forgot to say that all lights are steady green on the router and I'm using the connection to post this.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Hmm weird.
You obviously do have sync with the exchange though since its showing your connection speed.
TBH I dont think its related and more of a fluke. You have been allocated an WAN IP by Orange, but its a very weird one. Im wondering if for some reason your router isnt picking up the relevant Orange servers or gateways.
Ive tried doing a tracert to you and theres lots of Orange hops that are timing out and Several Orange Servers that arent responding to ICMP pings. I wonder if Orange has a problem atm.
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Wonder if its related http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=2419.0
Obviously I dont know for sure, but I thought at the time it was a little strange that so many services and servers would be out for "website changes". ???
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It showed No Connection all day every time I logged into it so eventually I restarted the router and it returned to normal...I guess it was a router software problem because of the display shown against LAN MAC address (see image in previous post).
The Orange server thing didn't seem to affect me or others that I am aware of....we all sent and received emails during the supposed downtime.
Also I use OpenDNS rather than Orange servers (too unreliable) and I use specific IP addresses for POP and SMTP.
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I don't know how relevant this is but both me and my boyfriend are on orange and we are always on the web on our phones. We have been having issues loading pages where it says "no connection" then tests the connection and there is a connection. Sounds like the same thing to me. Not sure though. But it's resolved for us now.
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Yes youre right, my first thought was the router having a bit of a fit.... but
Because your IP is viewable to Admin, I thought it looked a little strange. I looked up the IP, and also did a tracert on it.
Put it this way the IP address you were allocated yesterday wasnt didnt seem a "normal" one, and lookup was returning something like "Orange Unallocated". Unless it was pure co-incidence, but its seldom you see a consumer IP address with all those 1's. I could be wrong but an IP addy like that is normally one that an ISP would like to reserve for one of their gateways for eg.
If it wasnt for seeing the IP addy you'd been allocated, then I would have just put it down to the router.
The router reboot will have likely caused a new IP.. Your IP address now looks a lot more usual and in one of the ranges allocated to their customer pools.
What ever it was.. I dont think its at all related to your previous problems.
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Now you mention the wierd IP address, I did notice that myself when I was on a speed test site so I re-checked it when I logged onto the router page.
It was something like XXX.111.8.1 from memory but I didn't attach any importance to it because I know Orange have 1000s of addresses.
Is there anyway I can recall that IP addy ?
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Update regarding my strange Orange LLU connection.
After much correspondence, which culminated in an email being sent to Tom Alexander, the Orange Executive Office have confirmed that they have downgraded my connection to 2Mbps because "this was an automatic system sweep, which identified you were receiving a faster speed than the package allowed." I'm on the original 1Mbps £17.99pm package from December 2004.
They also stated that "In order to increase your Broadband speed it is necessary to change your Broadband package. I have offered to change your package to Broadband Plus charged at £12.99 per month, up to an 8 Meg speed, 2GB usage allowance, this also includes Wireless and Talk. I confirm should you accept my offer this will not enter you into a new contractual agreement."
Now back in October 2005 when the local exchange was LLU'd, I received an email saying that "we'll give you a free upgrade to the fastest speed your phone line can support when it's available to you", and later I received confirmation that “As I stated in my previous correspondence, our engineers believe 6.5 meg to be capable on your line as this is the speed that they have provisioned you on.” True to their word I was then seeing 5.8meg line speed.
So basically I've told Orange that I have contradictory statements in writing and would they re-instate my 6.5meg service.
But since my email to them it has become apparent that some other LLU exchanges have been downgraded from 4+meg to 2meg, even the availability checkers are showing "Your line is capable of 2.0 Mbps." and " ADSL is enabled up to 2 Mbps."
Very strange don't you think ?
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>> some other LLU exchanges have been downgraded from 4+meg to 2meg.
Its an artificial restriction applied by the ISP, your router should be able to sync at the best speed it can.
>> the availability checkers are showing "Your line is capable of 2.0 Mbps." and " ADSL is enabled up to 2 Mbps."
The BT based checkers are generally on the conservative side, if youve made the best of your connection and have everything set up correctly, then generally you should be able to get more.
>> I've told Orange that I have contradictory statements in writing and would they re-instate my 6.5meg service
I dont blame you - £17.99 is a lot to be paying for an LLU fixed 2Mb account and I wouldnt be too chuffed either :/
>> I have offered to change your package to Broadband Plus charged at £12.99 per month, up to an 8 Meg speed, 2GB usage allowance,
Strange - thats not something they offer on their site (http://www.orange.co.uk/time/compareall.htm).
Still seems a bit expensive especially for 2GB LLU - Theres a few IPStream ISPs that will do 2GB of usage on an up to 8Mbps account..
http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/isp_price_list.php
Plusnets 2GB 8Mbps £9.99 is ok if you dont use p2p, but theres also ISPs like newnet with 3GB and Metronet 2GB. Once youre up to the £15 range theres quite a few choices with more usage allowances.
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Strange - thats not something they offer on their site (http://www.orange.co.uk/time/compareall.htm).
It's a "special" package that they offer existing customers only, usually for retention purposes.
If my exchange was 21CN WBC enabled would this affect an LLU service ?.....it's showing as enabled as of 30/4/08.
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>> If my exchange was 21CN WBC enabled would this affect an LLU service ?.
No - WBC is sort of BTWholesales equivalent to adsl2+ with higher speeds.
It means that BTw have installed new kit (MSANs) into your exchange and wont affect your orange connection since that goes through their own Orange MSAN (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/telephone_exchange.htm).
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>> some other LLU exchanges have been downgraded from 4+meg to 2meg.
Its an artificial restriction applied by the ISP, your router should be able to sync at the best speed it can.
>> the availability checkers are showing "Your line is capable of 2.0 Mbps." and " ADSL is enabled up to 2 Mbps."
The BT based checkers are generally on the conservative side, if youve made the best of your connection and have everything set up correctly, then generally you should be able to get more.
>> I've told Orange that I have contradictory statements in writing and would they re-instate my 6.5meg service
I dont blame you - £17.99 is a lot to be paying for an LLU fixed 2Mb account and I wouldnt be too chuffed either :/
>> I have offered to change your package to Broadband Plus charged at £12.99 per month, up to an 8 Meg speed, 2GB usage allowance,
Strange - thats not something they offer on their site (http://www.orange.co.uk/time/compareall.htm).
Still seems a bit expensive especially for 2GB LLU - Theres a few IPStream ISPs that will do 2GB of usage on an up to 8Mbps account..
http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/isp_price_list.php
Plusnets 2GB 8Mbps £9.99 is ok if you dont use p2p, but theres also ISPs like newnet with 3GB and Metronet 2GB. Once youre up to the £15 range theres quite a few choices with more usage allowances.
Tiscali 8meg Broadband Unlimited Usage - £14.99 ;) ;D
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Still seems a bit expensive especially for 2GB LLU - Theres a few IPStream ISPs that will do 2GB of usage on an up to 8Mbps account..
http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/isp_price_list.php
Plusnets 2GB 8Mbps £9.99 is ok if you dont use p2p, but theres also ISPs like newnet with 3GB and Metronet 2GB. Once youre up to the £15 range theres quite a few choices with more usage allowances.
OK after a couple more communications, it has become obvious that Orange are unwilling to re-instate my original speed against my current contract.
They have stated :-
As previously advised it is not possible to increase your speed on the package you are on.
and
I accept that you were advised you could have a faster connection in October 2005 however, as this is no longer possible the offer as stated above was made.
We all know it's technically possible to re-instate my original speed on my current contract but Orange appear to be on a defined path of applying a marketing technique with the end result of having all customers on a telephone+broadband package with probably IPTV coming later.
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Tiscali 8meg Broadband Unlimited Usage - £14.99
Tiscali Unlimited usage means unlimited time online - NOT the amount that you download.
Their unlimited usage isnt Unlimited in the true sense.. and what they do mean is unlimited usage... at dial up speeds because they can and do throttle their users.
They block p2p during day + peak times and severly throttle other applications.
I was being honest when I mentioned that Plusnet throttle p2p on the Option 1 £9.99 account, but at least you can download offpeak - and on top of that any usage during the off-peak doesnt count towards the cap, ... and you do get what they say you will get and you know exactly where you stand.
Certain ISPs abuse the term "Unlimited" :angry:
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it has become obvious that Orange are unwilling to re-instate my original speed against my current contract.
I'm sorry to hear that, it seems vastly unfair. Most decent ISPs have upgraded their customers at no additional costs and dont require the customer to enter into a new contract to get the higher speeds :(
>> We all know it's technically possible to re-instate my original speed
Yes its a restriction at the ISP end (not the exchange equipment) which will now be cutting your speed back.
I think you may be correct, more and more ISPs tend to be moving towards the packages where you get everything all bundled in, not realising that some of us may not want that :/
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Yesterday, I lodged a complaint with ISPA with all the relevant written references to connection speed made by Orange/Wanadoo since December 2004 when the contract began.
I'm not expecting a miracle though and it's probable that I'll get a MAC code and move to Be/O2.
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The only saving grace is that youre not in a contract and are able to move on to another ISP which would give you the higher speeds.
Good luck with the complaint.
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>:( :( :o ??? ::) :no: :'(
Orange this morning :
http://www.speedtest.net/result/324245325.png
:) ;) :D ;D :P :lol: :lol: :congrats: :drink: :dance: :clap2: :clap: :thumbs:
O2 this afternoon :
http://www.speedtest.net/result/324309800.png
All I had to do was to unplug 3 leads from my Belkin and re-plug them into the O2 router.......so why did Orange make it so difficult ?
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Excellent ;D
Hmm... you'll have to change your username now - O2ed doesn't sound as good though, lol ;)
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nice one :clap:
>> you'll have to change your username now - O2ed doesn't sound as good though,
nope it doesnt :lol:
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O2MACH2 perhaps :yum:
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// split topic to cause less confusion for me
Old nicks posts are now in this thread. - Orange LLU (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=2951.0).