Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: Binker on August 17, 2014, 08:40:04 PM
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I moved to a new house and will use ADSL for internet. I'm not familiar with ADSL as I always had VirginMedia cable broadband.
My new ISP is TalkTalk and they advise users to attach the Wi-Fi router to the master phone socket rather than an extension socket. I want my PC to attach to the router using a Ethernet cable and the location of the master socket makes this awkward.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of using the master socket for the router as opposed to using a secondary extension socket?
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potentially you get a better speed from the master socket because it removes any attenuation you'd get from the extension wiring.
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The potential problem with using an extension is that it can introduce interference, particularly if flat (untwisted) cable has been used to wire the extension. Depending on the age of the wiring, you may get improved performance by disconnecting the ring wire from terminal 3 on the back of the master socket faceplate. But apart from this, if the extension has been wired properly using twisted cable, there's little or no reason not to use the extension to connect the modem.
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Agree with Roseway - AND you can always change your mind if speed is disappointing/ or you have a flash of inspiration for an Ethernet routing which isn't a lethal tripwire !
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I agree with what has been said but be aware that if you want to report an issue with TalkTalk you will have to be able to connect the router directly to the master socket and recreate the issue if you want them to follow up on it.
Stuart
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The potential problem with using an extension is that it can introduce interference, particularly if flat (untwisted) cable has been used to wire the extension. Depending on the age of the wiring, you may get improved performance by disconnecting the ring wire from terminal 3 on the back of the master socket faceplate. But apart from this, if the extension has been wired properly using twisted cable, there's little or no reason not to use the extension to connect the modem.
The wiring may be 30 years old. However it seems to have been bodged because four extensions are connected to the incoming BT wires all within a JB just inside the house. There isn't a master socket anywhere! Turns out what I thought was a master socket is just an extension socket.
(I haven't checked if there is a 3rd ringing wire but I suspect that the person who wired this wouldn't bother with such niceties although he may have done his handiwork on top of a pre-existing 3 wire setup.)
As there is no master socket, I believe I need to correct this wiring. Is this true?
Amazingly, TalkTalk's telephone and ADSL both work although perhaps it will turn out that they're not as good as they should be.
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Hello
You probably have one of the following 1/1a (small surface mount box), a 2/1a (slightly larger surface mount box) or a 3/1a (this is the size of a single mains socket and may or may not be flush mounted).
If you open up the socket nearest to where the phone line enters (trace the cables), you should see a capacitor and a resistor mounted on the circuit board. This is your main or master socket and it pre-dates the later NTE5a (or b).
Your easiest solution to this problem is to buy a new Openreach NTE5a from somewhere like Ebay and simply replace the existing socket with this one. It would also be worth getting one of the newer Openreach Mk2 faceplates as well. If you want links, then just ask here.
You'll also need a Krone wire insertion tool (these are for insulation displacement connections as used in these sockets. Some kits come with a plastic disposable version.. I personally much prefer the proper tool).
If you want some further tips etc. then just ask.
One thing to check... Open up the other extension sockets and check that they **DON'T** have capacitors in them.. Yes, I have seen this... either as customer bodges or even fitted by shoddy BT installers. (I've actually witnessed this being done by an ST [Senior Technician... NOT!!]).
If you find anything strange, then just post here for advice..
I suggest doing this yourself (if you can) as BT like to charge..
Any questions? Just ask here.
Bodge99
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The wiring may be 30 years old. However it seems to have been bodged because four extensions are connected to the incoming BT wires all within a JB just inside the house.[/i]
BUT 4 extensions can also attenuate higher frequency components in the ADSL particularly if 4 extensions implies big rooms = " long extensions" .
There isn't a master socket anywhere! Turns out what I thought was a master socket is just an extension socket.
As there is no master socket, I believe I need to correct this wiring. Is this true?[/i]
It would be useful to know exactly what the wiring is, which suggests replace it with a normal set up ! I would avoid the Mk2 filtered faceplate (includes an RF3) for the moment, as there are indications of a manufacturing bug. Mk1 is OK.
Either can be set up with a "microfilter" inside the master socket so you have phone only extensions and one central modem socket. This avoids damage to dangly microfilters from pets/children/vacuum cleaners, and prevents the effect of N extensions. I think it could be wired for N phone extensions with 1 modem extensions.
The acid test is how well do your speed, S/N and attenuation compare with an estimate based on the distance from exchange*1.4 ( to allow for not taking the direct route). see:=
http://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk/guides/adsl_and_distance.aspx
Postcode estimates can be conservative to put it mildly !
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I would avoid the Mk2 filtered faceplate (includes an RF3) for the moment, as there are indications of a manufacturing bug. Mk1 is OK.
I was going to re-wire the internal phone extensions myself but I found a friendly BT installer who did it in his spare time. Now all the wiring and sockets are new. However the installer used a MK2 filtered faceplate on the master socket and I see you mentioned the possibility of a manufacturing bug with that component.
Could you or anyone else say some more about the sort of problem the MK2 may contain? Thank you.
Binker.
(If it's relevant, I'm getting about 8Mbps download. Also TalkTalk said the line was transferred from "WLR" to "LLU".)
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I would avoid the Mk2 filtered faceplate (includes an RF3) for the moment, as there are indications of a manufacturing bug. Mk1 is OK.
I was going to re-wire the internal phone extensions myself but I found a friendly BT installer who did it in his spare time. Now all the wiring and sockets are new. However the installer used a MK2 filtered faceplate on the master socket and I see you mentioned the possibility of a manufacturing bug with that component.
Could you or anyone else say some more about the sort of problem the MK2 may contain? Thank you.
Binker.
(If it's relevant, I'm getting about 8Mbps download. Also TalkTalk said the line was transferred from "WLR" to "LLU".)
Sorrry, the MK2 problem is a bit of a BT secret ! - BUT there is a recent posting from someone who bought and fitted a MK2 and then his BB didn't work at all, so he sent it back ! It sounded like a non connection;
BTW "LLU" is " Local Line Unbundled" the legal status of the line to the exchange. Shouldn't affect speed.
You may like to look at my posting "Extension Loss" in Broadband Technology. I've tried to explain why extensions can cause loss of speed by mangling the bandpass. ( as well as acting as an interference aerial !)
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I imagine that this defect was a batch problem, or even a one-off. I don't think you should expect them all to be suspect. For example, I fitted one about three months ago, and it's fine.
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I imagine that this defect was a batch problem, or even a one-off. I don't think you should expect them all to be suspect. For example, I fitted one about three months ago, and it's fine.
That isn't much consolation if you get a faulty one !
see := http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=14296.msg267574#msg267574
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I'm merely pointing out that there's no evidence to suggest that this is any sort of endemic problem. OpenReach are routinely fitting them, and would be getting very angry with the supplier if there were significant numbers found to be faulty. With engineer installs of VDSL2 the engineer has to confirm that the hardware works, so OR would get very quick feedback if there were large numbers of rejects.
The other thing with eBay of course is that there are quite probably some fake SSFP Mk2 items on sale, so the buyer needs to beware.
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Thank you Roseway for some solid information.
There has been a lot of rumor, so in the absence of reliable information it seemed a good idea to steer clear, particularly when the Mk1 is available
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You may like to look at my posting "Extension Loss" in Broadband Technology. I've tried to explain why extensions can cause loss of speed by mangling the bandpass. ( as well as acting as an interference aerial !)
Hello JGO. I am using the OpenReach MK2 filter on my new master socket. I took at look at your post about extension loss. http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=14329.msg267932#msg267932 (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=14329.msg267932#msg267932)
I am not exactly clear whether or not it is helpful to put microfilters on the extensions in the way I have read some people advocate in the past. Would microfilters on the used and unused extensions help with the loss you mention ... or with any other aspect of broadband? (You can tell I'm a bit of a newbie at this!)
Thank you or anyone else for any advice.
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There's no point in putting filters on unused extension sockets. But it can be helpful in some cases to double-filter by putting a microfilter on the used extension sockets. This can help with Sky boxes for example, because some models have been known to produce significant interference.
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To add to roseway's point about naughty Sky boxes, if your extensions are wired from the front faceplate of your NTE5/A master socket, the Mk2 faceplate will filter them anyway. If they've been wired without the ring wire (IDC number 3, usually orange with white stripes), and you notice any phones connected to your extensions not ringing, you can use filters on those to regenerate the ringing signal for them, if you like. :)