Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: tommy45 on May 01, 2014, 01:13:13 PM
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As the title suggests so matter what i have tried nothing ahas worked, they modem isn't communicating with the pc lan
Things i have done, set up a PPPOE mini port connection (several times) changed my network adapter from it's manually configured set up (Static ip for pc & router for dns) to auto mode, plugged ethernet cable into modem and rebooted pc but not lan led activity at all , My O/S is win SP3 and the modem is an ECI latest version
Has anyone else experienced this type of issue, I wanted to connect directly in order to progress a fault where when downloading using only 1 stream throughput repeatedly will stall /pause briefly then continue again
But if i download using multiple threads there's no stalling/pausing with throughput, so i need to be sure this isn't down to my router billion 7800
If anyone has any ideas why i'm not able to successfully create a PPPOE mini port connection to the modem please let me know
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the only time I had this issue on dsl is my adsl days and it happened when I had excessive crc errors causing tcp to stall.
have you watched the error count during the stalls?
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I haven't got a huwaei modem as yet,I was given a ECI , But the tests the ISP has done don't indicate any issues
But i have this pausing on the downstream , I too had plenty of issues with high error rates when on ADSL2+ But this issue seems to be different, It also only seems to pause when connected to a server that can max out the connection, as streaming I player ect aren't continually buffering or stopping/failing to play , 2 threads and i get a constant throughput with some degree of variation near the max range,
But as i use a router i really could do with being able to eliminate it from the list of possibilities , but without another machine or being able to make a successful direct PPPOE connection from PC to the BT modem and access the internet, My other option would be to buy a 3b and unlock it and use it as a modem/router for testing , and i would then be able to access my stats as well
to test if the issue is still present or not before agreeing to a BT OR SFI visit , in order to avoid donating to their xmas party fund
Test Outcome Pass
Test Outcome Code GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_0003
Description No problem found, OAM test is not currently supported on this line.
Main Fault Location OK
Sync Status In Sync
Downstream Speed 73.8 Mbps
Upstream Speed 20.0 Mbps
Profile Name 40M-80M Downstream, Interleaving Low - 10M-20M Upstream, Interleaving Off
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If you would like to connect to BT FTTC modem directly you need to setup a PPPOE connection on the PC side in the Network Connections all you need is the USER NAME and PASSWORD given to you by your ISP.
here is an example http://community.plus.net/library/broadband/fibre-help-how-to-set-up-a-pppoe-dialler-in-vistawindows-7/ (http://community.plus.net/library/broadband/fibre-help-how-to-set-up-a-pppoe-dialler-in-vistawindows-7/)
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If you would like to connect to BT FTTC modem directly you need to setup a PPPOE connection on the PC side in the Network Connections all you need is the USER NAME and PASSWORD given to you by your ISP.
here is an example http://community.plus.net/library/broadband/fibre-help-how-to-set-up-a-pppoe-dialler-in-vistawindows-7/ (http://community.plus.net/library/broadband/fibre-help-how-to-set-up-a-pppoe-dialler-in-vistawindows-7/)
Already done that, didn't work, then as i said i set my lan connection to the defaults auto IP and Auto dns, and still no joy, the pc will not communicate with the BT-OR ECI modem , no lan led activity on modem or at the ethernet port on the pc at all whilst the PPPOE mini port connection that i created is allegedly trying to establish a connection, If it had worked as it is apparently supposed to do , i would not be on here picking some brains in the hope someone may be able to help perhaps there is something getting overlooked ? , The PPOE connection gives an error code , and the lan connection Icon doesn't at any point change from displaying "a network cable maybe unplugged" complete with red X , so there's no coms going on between modem and pc
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You could try the above PPPOE setup again in the safe mode because I am thinking that you have some kind of security thats blocking diirect access to Lan Port 1 on the FTTC modem, or the ECI modem settings need reset.
I'll leave it to someone else to help you out with this issue ;)
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I did attempt to connect using safe mode with networking , but i was unable to see the PPPOE mini port connection that i had set up, why that was the case i'm not sure ? As for a reset of the Modem, i take it you mean a reboot/power cycle, ? if so that too has been tried
I again tried safe mode with networking, and attempted to create a new PPPOE connection when in safe mode, but the option to do this is greyed out So it's not possible using safe mode, Probably because the drivers aren't loaded when in safe mode
I have tried with my software firewall disabled /set to allow all that makes no difference Within the advanced tab section of the PPPOE connection Does the option to allow ICS need to be enabled on the PPPOE connection ?
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I did attempt to connect using safe mode with networking , but i was unable to see the PPPOE mini port connection that i had set up, why that was the case i'm not sure ? As for a reset of the Modem, i take it you mean a reboot/power cycle, ? if so that too has been tried
I again tried safe mode with networking, and attempted to create a new PPPOE connection when in safe mode, but the option to do this is greyed out So it's not possible using safe mode, Probably because the drivers aren't loaded when in safe mode
I have tried with my software firewall disabled /set to allow all that makes no difference Within the advanced tab section of the PPPOE connection Does the option to allow ICS need to be enabled on the PPPOE connection ?
no that's to allow other computers to use the net via your pc.
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I did wonder as to what it did, and the absence of any mention of it,in the instructions given by several isp's on what should be needed to create a PPPOE connection and successfully connect to the internet using it ,
Why things can't just work as they are supposed to do i'll never know,
There again why for the life of me BTOR decided upon using PPPOE i'll never know either what was wrong with PPPOA ?
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I did wonder as to what it did, and the absence of any mention of it,in the instructions given by several isp's on what should be needed to create a PPPOE connection and successfully connect to the internet using it ,
Why things can't just work as they are supposed to do i'll never know,
There again why for the life of me BTOR decided upon using PPPOE i'll never know either what was wrong with PPPOA ?
PPPoA is less efficient and requires additional processing.
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PPPoA is less efficient and requires additional processing.
I'm sure that i've read that PPPOE Was what you say, and it has a smaller MTU too
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PPPoE or PPPoA (http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/dsl_modems02_06)
The reason we traditionally used PPPoverATM is because the exchange backhaul was ATM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asynchronous_Transfer_Mode) as can be seen here
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kitz.co.uk%2Fadsl%2Fimages%2Fcontention.gif&hash=a88ba6ea32bc9fa2cda7c26cf7487894938d6343)
ATM Backhaul . (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/equip2.htm)
The "pipe" between your local exchange and where it becomes part of the ATM Cloud.
ATM Cloud (MSiP). (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/equip2.htm)
BT's ATM network between various points, which can take many different paths/routes.
It carries traffic in pure ATM form and is called the Multi-Service intranet Platform (MSiP). Since it is impossible to know exactly which route traffic will traverse, an ATM network is depicted as a cloud.
BT's ATM network was originally built in the 1990's to handle traffic for business customers who required such services as intranets on leased lines. Today it also carries IP packets as an ATM stream for internet customers to and from the Colossus backbone.
ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode) is a networking technology based on transferring data in cells or packets of a fixed size over a dedicated connection.
The cell used with ATM is relatively small compared to units used with older technologies. The small, constant cell size allows ATM equipment to transmit video, audio, and computer data over the same network, and assure that no single type of data hogs the line.
In the UK BT uses the networking protocol PPPoA (Point-to-Point Protocol over ATM) over this part of the network for the transmission of data packets.
Sometime in the early days of adsl (2003/2004 ish) BT allowed PPPoE over the ATM network but it had to be emulated which meant it was actually PPPoEoA and therefore not as efficient.
However, the 21CN network is built to coincide with the introduction of faster speeds (adsl2+) and higher bandwidth requirements. This was a massive investment by BT costing many millions of £. The eventual aim was to also carry voice over the IP network, but this has not yet happened.
On 21CN exchanges
~ Exchange Backhaul from the MSAN (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/21cn_network.htm)
The backhaul transmission is SDH with Ethernet traffic encapsulated within GFP (Generic Framing Protocol) and protected using either SNCP or higher layer protection.
The network is tiered, which means that traffic will pass on up through various levels and nodes. MSANs are usually dual parented to the next level to provide some resiliency.
C.MSAN backhaul (Tier 3): Dual parenting to Fibre Access or WDM Access nodes unless impractical
F.MSAN backhaul (Tier 2): Dual homed. Either to WDM Access node and/or via other FMSAN(s) to WDM.
Depending upon the exchange and its size, the next tier may either be at the same location or at another exchange/PoP higher up in the chain.
Most exchanges (approx 4,400) will be Tier 2 & 3 which will be dual homed to the nearest WDM and/or via other F.MSANs to a WDM.
Hence why PPPoE would be the preferred (only) option when it comes to FTTC/FTTP DSLAMs
ADSL2+ should be able to connect via either protocol at the MSAN. Can you imagine the nightmare if thousands of users had to reconfigure their modems after their exchange had been upgraded to 21CN. It doesnt bear thinking about. :(
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Already done that, didn't work, then as i said i set my lan connection to the defaults auto IP and Auto dns, and still no joy, the pc will not communicate with the BT-OR ECI modem , no lan led activity on modem or at the ethernet port on the pc at all whilst the PPPOE mini port connection that i created is allegedly trying to establish a connection,
Ive connected a few time via a PPPoE dialler for testing purposes without issue. I basically did the steps in that tuturial provided by NewtronStar.
The mention of PPPoE mini port confuses me. I used the settings from the network wizard: Connect to the Internet > Broadband PPPoE
The other thing that nags somewhere, is the BT login, Im sure Ive seen something weird about that in the past. I take it you have used your @btinternet login information and not whatever the HH has set by default.
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I gave this a go yesterday using windows 7 and my ISP is PlusNet. Unfortunately I could not get it to work. :(.
I tried switching off TR69 and adding the DNS servers for good measure but still no luck.
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PPPoA is less efficient and requires additional processing.
I'm sure that i've read that PPPOE Was what you say, and it has a smaller MTU too
PPPoE: ethernet frames encapsulated in PPP packets encapsulated in ethernet frames going onto a network that broadly uses ethernet. MTU is 1500
PPPoA: ethernet frames encapsulated in PPP packets encapsulated in ATM frames going on to a network that broadly uses ethernet. MTU is 14xx because of ATM framing overheads. The data has to be extracted from the smaller ATM frames and reassembled into TCP/IP packets before it hits the wider internet.
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Already done that, didn't work, then as i said i set my lan connection to the defaults auto IP and Auto dns, and still no joy, the pc will not communicate with the BT-OR ECI modem , no lan led activity on modem or at the ethernet port on the pc at all whilst the PPPOE mini port connection that i created is allegedly trying to establish a connection,
Ive connected a few time via a PPPoE dialler for testing purposes without issue. I basically did the steps in that tuturial provided by NewtronStar.
The mention of PPPoE mini port confuses me. I used the settings from the network wizard: Connect to the Internet > Broadband PPPoE
The other thing that nags somewhere, is the BT login, Im sure Ive seen something weird about that in the past. I take it you have used your @btinternet login information and not whatever the HH has set by default.
Wan Mini -port is what the connection is called , And i created it using the very same actions as you did but it will not connect, no lan activity at the modem, or at the ethernet port on PC when plugged into BT modem
[Moderator edited to upload a cropped version of the image.]
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Hi Tommy45 I am wondering if you have some settings un-ticked in the Local Area Connection properties ?
So I have included a Snip of my Local Area Connection for you to look at, I am using Vista I take it your using XP.
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No, nothing is un-ticked there isn't as many options though, I did how ever manage to loan a laptop that had a corrupted version of win7 on it, so after basically performing a re installation of the o/s i was able to set up a PPPOE connection to the BTOR modem, as soon as i plugged the Ethernet cable in the lan led on the modem illuminated and after a couple of failed attempts i had a direct working PPPOE connection .
I then did a download test, and no pausing , some variation but no pausing , I then set up a lan connection to the router and did the same test, again the pausing was there,
I have since found that a similar problem with the router billion 7800 was found back in 2011-12, looks like they didn't fix it,
But as to why my pc wouldn't do a direct PPPOE connection is a mystery , but thank you to those who tried to help me , much appreciated
The next thing is to somehow get Plusnet to bloody well leave their copy IP profile alone, it was set by tech support to the max of 78mbps the other day it since has been lowered as a direct result I've lost even more throughput , it should be set around 74mbps not lower like it currently is,
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The next thing is to somehow get Plusnet to bloody well leave their copy IP profile alone, it was set by tech support to the max of 78mbps the other day it since has been lowered as a direct result I've lost even more throughput , it should be set around 74mbps not lower like it currently is,
What is it currently set at?
I'm also with Plusnet & find it quite frustrating that it can sometimes take a few days for their profile to update.
Theoretically, they should receive regular IP Profile updates from BT (3 times per day I think), but they claim that they don't always recieve them that often.
They can manually update their own profile when requested, but that can also take a few days for them to get round to doing it.
I believe Plusnet's own profile (for VDSL2 connections) should only be around 100 Kbps lower than BT's IP Profile.
Therefore when their systems work as intended, it makes very little difference to actual throughput speeds.
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Following on from what Bald_Eagle1 has said, if the plusnet profile was incorrectly set higher than the BT profile then this can cause issues with streaming if the downloading limit of the line is reached.
So can I ask are you still noticing the pausing after the plusnet profile was reduced?
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The next thing is to somehow get Plusnet to bloody well leave their copy IP profile alone, it was set by tech support to the max of 78mbps the other day it since has been lowered as a direct result I've lost even more throughput , it should be set around 74mbps not lower like it currently is,
I'm also with Plusnet & find it quite frustrating that it can sometimes take a few days for their profile to update.
Theoretically, they should receive regular IP Profile updates from BT (3 times per day I think), but they claim that they don't always recieve them that often.
They can manually update their own profile when requested, but that can also take a few days for them to get round to doing it.
I believe Plusnet's own profile (for VDSL2 connections) should only be around 100 Kbps lower than BT's IP Profile.
Therefore when their systems work as intended, it makes very little difference to actual throughput speeds.
What is it currently set at? The Plusnet Profile is 71.4 Mb I was getting throughput of 71.9 , with it set to 78
So it is restricting my throughput as it must be set lower than the real IP profile In MB/s i was getting 8.6MB/s now 8.3MB/s
As for their IP profile updating several times a day, rubbish is all i can say, as the last time that DLM intervened Although my BT ip profile changed (but only after a re boot of the bt modem) the plusnet IP profile remained as it was set 77.4 for the duration of the dlm intervention 15 days , then i saw the BT IP profile revert back to 77.44 and the 8ms of unneeded lag removed as well , Plusnets system didn't have a clue, lol
https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,114083.32.html (https://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,114083.32.html) One forum topic about their Profile , there's also a long one on think-broadband, others have noticed this too When my IP was 77.4 the max throughput i saw was 72.80mbps , when it should of been 74/75mbps but the second plusnet profile and their QOS that doesn't have an off switch prevent this , yes it maybe only a 2-3 mbps difference but it doesn't mean that it's right they can get away with doing this , I believe the customer should be given the choice , to have their traffic prioritising or not have it , For someone like me there is no benefits of having it.for me, So it works in plusnets favour (3mbps shortfall in throughput) meaning can't download as much data per hr = saves them money /bandwidth
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Following on from what Bald_Eagle1 has said, if the plusnet profile was incorrectly set higher than the BT profile then this can cause issues with streaming if the downloading limit of the line is reached.
So can I ask are you still noticing the pausing after the plusnet profile was reduced?
As i am the only user of the connection that is of no concern to me, and infact i am able to do what you suggest without buffering issues regardless of plusnet may say, The only difference i observed was that whilst downloading at the max , minimum latency increased more , but so what? i wouldn't normally be playing an online game with downloads or uploads running,
As for the (single threaded) pausing when using my router yes it still happens, that's because it is down to my router, it appears to be a known issue that dates back to 2011-12 which billion don't seem to have fixed