Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: broadstairs on October 01, 2012, 02:22:40 PM
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I am starting to have a few problems with my trusty DSL-2740B and thinnk it may have to be replaced soon. It does not seem to like high traffic flow over wireless as it has been refusing to respond on both wireless and wired after a large data transfer was initiated from one of my PCs to another over wireless (one wireless connected and one by wire). Also occasionally I get an error from the embedded web server when I connect over the lan (remote access is disabled).
So what should I get if it does give up? Currently this router will hold an 8meg connection down to very low SNRM values (around 1-2 db on a attenuation of 41db upstream). This router also has SNMP which I use to monitor bandwidth. FTTC is now available in my area but as yet I dont see the need but that may change and if it does I'd like to have my own managed kit so if there is an option for both ADSL2 and VDSL in the same box at an affordable price it might be interesting.
So what do folks suggest.....
Stuart
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The DSL-2740B is one I would normally recommend, but I wasn't aware of any WiFi problems. Probably the one which gets most plaudits is the Billion 7800N, which has the same chipset as the 2740B, but it's an expensive option if it fails to meet your needs.
If you want kit which will be compatible with VDSL2, one very good option is the HG612, which you need to unlock to use it on anything other than a BT-based FTTC system. You can get them inexpensively from eBay, and unlocking them is easy. But the HG612 is only a 2-port non-wireless router, so you would need to add a WAP for your WiFi connections, and maybe a switch if you need more than two ethernet connections.
Apart from that, I believe that there are some very expensive FritzBox models which do both ADSL(2+) and VDSL2.
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I agree with Roseway, HG612 is a 'cheap' way of getting a modem that has a decent broadcom 6368 chipset and you get get them for about £10 on ebay (ive just bought one for £10 delivered), your current D-link is broadcom 6358 which is an older version of the 63xx series chipsets, ive found higher sync rates every time Ive gone up a version and you can also tweak the HG612 (when its unlocked) to lower the SNRM for more speed and get advanced stats from it.
e.g. these are max speeds on my sky connection (which uses a broadcom based ISAM at the exchange)
6348 - 15.4Mb (Netgear DG834GT)
6358 - 15.8Mb (Netgear DG834N)
6362 - 16.8Mb (Sagemcon F@ST 2504N)
6361 - 17.2Mb (Sky SR101) I think this is might be newer than 6362, its a 6362 without dect and I think thats why the reduced the code to 6361, I could be wrong of course
6368 - ??.?Mb (Huawei HG612 3b) waiting to get it...
of course 'Firmware' plays a massive part too, one vendors router with same chipset as another may perform better or worse..
it is proven that its usually best to match your router chipset to your ISP's MSAN/DSLAM chipset - do you know what your ISP uses? you will be able to find out on your D-Link if it has Telnet access using the adslctl info --vendor command, mind it doesn't mean that a differing chipset will always under-perform, I tested a TREND chipset Huawei HG521 router last week and it got 17Mb speed on my sky connection.
the HG612 would mean your already setup for FTTC too, yes you have to setup a 2nd device for wireless access but its easy, I dont know of any wireless xDSL routers that work on BT's FTTC on their own without the HG612 (which is what BTo install for FTTC) - also if your 2nd router has multiple ethernet ports then these can be used too, so for e.g. if you use a standard 4 port wireless router then 1 is used to connect to the HG612 and the other 3 are spare (as is the 2nd one on the HG612 meaning you would have 4 ethernet ports) - Im going to use my Sky SR101 Hub for the wi-fi (144Mbps) but I have a DG834N and HG521 that have 270Mbps speeds should I need it.
my suggestions would be (in no preferred order)
a) Huawei Echolife HG612 B3 Modem Only - sports a broadcom 6368 chipset and two 100Mbit LANs, use any router you like (with DHCP off and LAN IP changed) for the wi-fi
b) Netgear DGND4000 xDSL Wireless Router - 750N (300+450) Dual-Band Wi-Fi, Gigabit Ethernet, USB port, IPv6, support for FTTC/Cable via WAN Input and a Broadcom 6362 chipset, its released in a few weeks.
c) Billion BiPAC 7800N xDSL Wireless Router- triple external antenna 300N Wi-Fi, support for FTTC/Cable via WAN input, IPv6, SNRM Tweaking built into user interface, excellent support and sports a broadcom 6358 chipset
but as already mentioned I think the best option (with cheapest price probably too) would be an HG612 b3 with any Wireless-N router that gets good reviews.
edit: another CHEAP option for a broadcom router (for ADSL) is a BT Home Hub 2 type A which is unlockable, has 300N 'smart' wifi and broadcom 6358 chipset same as your D-Link and you can get them on eBay for £9 (although check the version your buying is type A and not B which is an infineon chipset)
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... (although check the version your buying is type A and not B which is an infineon chipset)
Personally I would prefer the infineon chip over the Broadcom.
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Thanks for all the advice. I am still mulling over what to do.
I already have an access point which I use downstairs via a mains lan extender so we get a better wifi signal downstairs and at present I have wireless turned off on the D-Link and no more hangups, the upstairs PC connects OK via the ap and data transfer is not an issue like it was. I still get the odd hiccup on connecting to the router via the browser where the http server gives an error.
As I said my main concern here is that I maintain the 8meg connection with whatever router I go for and that it holds up OK at low snrm. I'd probably get a switch if I do get the HG612 as I prefer a wired connection for my two main PCs upstairs so I need at least 3 lan ports to connect the ap as well. In fact if I get a switch I'd wire all the upstairs PCs. I have searched ebay for HG612s but none I've found show if they are A or B, does it indicate on an external label the A/B?
Stuart
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This HG612 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Echolife-HG612-Huawei-Home-Gateway-Model-3B-/320991114952?pt=UK_Computing_Wireless_Routers&hash=item4abc8fb6c8) specifically says it's version 3B. I'm open to correction, but I think that version A is a very rare beast, and if you get a new one it will almost certainly be a B.
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This HG612 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Echolife-HG612-Huawei-Home-Gateway-Model-3B-/320991114952?pt=UK_Computing_Wireless_Routers&hash=item4abc8fb6c8) specifically says it's version 3B. I'm open to correction, but I think that version A is a very rare beast, and if you get a new one it will almost certainly be a B.
I think I was getting confused between the Home Hub and the HG612 :blush:
Stuart
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Just purchased an HG612 type 3b on ebay for just over £10 delivered, so will try this out when it arrives. Will need to get a switch now as well!
The DSL-2740B hung up again last night this time I think it may havebeen related to high wired lan traffic while I was backing up one PC to the NAS, so it is definitely on the way out. Seems OK for web traffic though - touch wood!
Stuart
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Stuart
As an old hardware man may I suggest it might be worth looking at the PSU particularly for bulging electrolytic capacitors. So much modern gear appears to fail with this fault and recognition is usually easy and replacement is generally not too difficult if you can use a soldering iron. It might save you more expense and you would have your established set up back.
Tony
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Stuart
As an old hardware man may I suggest it might be worth looking at the PSU particularly for bulging electrolytic capacitors. So much modern gear appears to fail with this fault and recognition is usually easy and replacement is generally not too difficult if you can use a soldering iron. It might save you more expense and you would have your established set up back.
Tony
I will take a look when I get a chance, although the PSU is a typical brick on a plug, so it would need to be smoothing caps inside the router. Anyway when I get my HG612 (which was very cheap anyway) Ill unlock it and give it a try, then I can take the DSL-2740B apart to see.
Stuart
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Stuart
You could try a new Wall Wart quite cheaply. http://www.digidave.co.uk/jshop/product.php?xProd=4216 is one example
Tony
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I'm rather dubious about that unit, because it's described as a 5V power supply suitable for the DSL-2740B, but the 2740B requires a 12V power supply.
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Sorry Stuart and thanks Eric. Didn't spot that since I don't have a DSL-2740B but I have bought PSUs from Digidave and for all his suspect name, they have been OK
Tony
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for all his suspect name
I know what you mean. :) But I've bought the odd cheapie from him and had no trouble.
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@ Stuart - got my HG612 3B today - the unlocking etc went smoothly, had some issues getting it to work initially but after following instruction on the wiki page HERE (http://wiki.kitz.co.uk/index.php?title=Huawei_HG612) I got it working spot on - only thing I didnt do was the IP filtering in the firewall section (which I need to ask B'Kat about) which was to allow all OUT over LAN and block all IN over WAN..because he didnt state what option you chose..LAN, DHCP or 0.38 - i thought it would be 0.38 but didnt want to chance it without asking so left that part out entirely - followed everything else in the firewall section
so far its worked great in tandem with my sky hub which i use for wi-fi and extra LAN ports as the HG612 has only 2, my hub means I now have 4 available
the sync rate isnt as high as I'd hoped it would be but at least now I can make it higher by tweaking the SNRM.
heres my syncs on each of my routers:
SPEEDS - ROUTER - CHIPSET
17.2Mb - Sky Hub SR101 - BCM 6361
16.9Mb - Huawei HG521 - Trend Chipset
16.8Mb - Sky Router 2504N - BCM 6362
16.4Mb - Huawei HG612 - BCM 6368
15.8Mb - Netgear DG834N - BCM 6358
15.3Mb - Netgear DG834GT - BCM 6348
I was hoping it would at least match the 6361/6362's ..but it hasnt...but is still better than my Netgears that allow me to tweak also.
I have some funny error statistics too (high CRC's and HEC's) but ive been told this is a bug and its all 'lies' - i got 850 CRC's in under 4 hours on a 7db noise margin
but....
since moving my sky hub off the top of the HG612 the error counts have definitley decreased..still dont reflect the error counts in user interface (which is where its incorrect)
heres my stats after 90 mins, as you can see really low Corrected Errors and only 1 CRC... spot on! :)
TPS-TC: ATM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 7.1 8.0
Attn(dB): 27.0 14.8
Pwr(dBm): 18.5 12.1
Counters
Path 0
SF: 321210 317477
SFErr: 1 0
RS: 63599349 978660
RSCorr: 5109 0
RSUnCorr: 41 0
Path 0
HEC: 66 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 199999192 14220830
Data Cells: 569186 144005
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 6309 0
ES: 1 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 28 28
AS: 5213
Path 0
INP: 1.05 1.21
PER: 16.22 16.41
delay: 7.86 7.89
OR: 32.53 9.26
Bitswap: 1913 1
Total time = 1 hours 27 min 29 sec
FEC: 5109 0
CRC: 1 0
ES: 1 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 28 28
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
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Just in cas you haven't noticed the relationship:-
CRC = SFErr (OHFErr for VDSL2 connections)
FEC = RSCorr
HEC = HEC in both GUI & telnet info
RSUnCorr - not reported in the GUI.
Some of the counts are reset to zero at a resync, some are only reset at a reboot/power off & some of them are reset when they reach the modem's integer limit.
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yeah I did - well, already knew because its same in DMT Tool from when I used to use that.. :)
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Hi, Out of interest can you say whether the Sky Hub SR101 is locked to Sky? and if is it not locked whether the options in it or the manual suggest that it may support annex m. I guess the annex m is not probable as Sky don't provide it.
Thanks
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Hi, Out of interest can you say whether the Sky Hub SR101 is locked to Sky? and if is it not locked whether the options in it or the manual suggest that it may support annex m. I guess the annex m is not probable as Sky don't provide it.
Thanks
Hi Les,
the Sky-Hub SR-101 is actually locked to sky, I dont know when sky plan to start giving it to new customers because at the moment its being tested by 50 of us, I do believe its very soon though and I heard that some people got one already but unsure
I would imagine that if it ever gets unlocked that it will support Annex M but that depends on the unlocked firmware I guess (if the people who created the unlocked firmware enabled Annex M option) ..I would imagine its supported by the 6361 chipset by default - just so your aware, the 6361 chipset is basically a 6362 chipset but without DECT capabilities - so if you can find mention of a 6362 chipset supporting Annex M then its extremely likely 6361 will too...
what I do know is that unlocking the Sky Hub SR-101 will be a long way off...if it even gets unlocked at all - the person who worked on unlocking the Sky Routers has not had the time to commit to continiung the cause, the previous/current 2504N still remains unlocked, I spoke to the person (Mrmt32 on Sky User) and he said that he has now acquired a 2504N to work on but doesnt have much spare-time to do it...
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Well I now have my HG612 up and running on my ADSL2+ connection with a sync speed of 8190 down at an SNRM of 6.1 db as shown by rs-ux. I am using a V7 8 port switch to connect all my devices to a single port on the HG612. So I'll let it run now for today and see how it goes.
Stuart
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cool
:)
Me and Bald_Eagle have made a script that can set the NOISE MARGIN for you (get more speed by lowering it) - run it, enter value..press enter.. wait 45-60 secs for your router to resync then login in and check its new speed..
find it HERE (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,11766.0.html)
Iam going to edit it too stay online until you router has done its re-sync and then hopefully report the new speed to you...
I wouldnt advise going any lower than 3db though as error counts rise significantly beyond that point on most connections, I get an extra 2.5Mb with a 4db drop from 7db to 3db
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Well three points here, firstly I run Linux so your script wont work, secondly my 8190 speed is the maximum I can get as I only have an up to 8meg account and thirdly my snrm usually dropped to less than 2db on the old D-Link and yet it stayed up.
So for now I intend to stick with this setup for some days and monitor the status to see how it performs. So far rs-ux is showing a much better snrm profile during the day which makes me suspicious of the old router even more - I think it is/was on its last legs.
Anyway I'll wait for a much longer test before I decided what (if anything) to do next.
Stuart
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It's been my experience that the HG612 manages the SNRM better than other routers I've tried. I haven't really investigated this, but I suspect that it uses bitswapping more effectively, so the SNRM doesn't fall as far during darkness as it does with other models. I'll be interested to see if you have similar experience.
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One more question. I used to use SNMP for gathering data on the D-Link, specifically my data traffic to compare to my ISPs account of how much of my allowable bandwidth I use. Now with the HG612 this is no longer possible? Are there any utilities which will garner the data from the telnet interface or do I have to go about this in a different way now (which would be a pain if it has to be on a per PC basis as I have 4 )?
I know we have Eric's excellent rs-ux but are there any others which will work with the HG612 (a version of DMT perhaps)?
Stuart
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I believe forum member Ixel is hard at work creating a program that pulls all sorts of data from the router, whether or not it will do what you want I dont know but you could perhaps request the feature? I think it IS a windows program but aren't there any windows emulating programs for linux that such an app can be transparently run within? I thought linux had WINE or something for these situations?
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I believe forum member Ixel is hard at work creating a program that pulls all sorts of data from the router, whether or not it will do what you want I dont know but you could perhaps request the feature? I think it IS a windows program but aren't there any windows emulating programs for linux that such an app can be transparently run within? I thought linux had WINE or something for these situations?
Yes there is Wine and Virtualbox for more complex things. However it is all an overhead. The other thing is to re-write scripts to run in Linux.
Stuart
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oh well - I can imagine a windows emulator being a massive over-head too..
one of the pitfalls of using Linux I suppose
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one of the pitfalls of using Linux I suppose
Not at all I see it as a benefit ;) ;) ;)
Stuart
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one of the pitfalls of using Linux I suppose
Not at all I see it as a benefit ;) ;) ;)
Stuart
depends on how you look at it I suppose, Linux is great but lacks software when compared to windows...thats the only reason I dont/cant use it.
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depends on how you look at it I suppose, Linux is great but lacks software when compared to windows...thats the only reason I dont/cant use it.
I dont want to change this thread into something else but I'd just say that I have yet to find something I need Windows for in software terms. The main reason I keep XP around is that I have a photo printer which is no longer produced or supported and is not that common but is usable so no Linux drivers but works perfectly in Virtualbox.
Stuart
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Stuart,
I believe you use a version of Fedora. How competent are you at writing/compiling C-code?
If you just want a textual output, I can give you a starting point from which you could develop your own bespoke CLI compiled code. In essence, it would be based upon the code using sockets programming to access the HG612 that I put together for Bald_Eagle1. (Yes, I realise that BGW is used in the Eagles' Nest but with assistance from Asbokid the Baldy_One knows how to compile C-code for the Dark-Side. :tongue: )
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It's been my experience that the HG612 manages the SNRM better than other routers I've tried. I haven't really investigated this, but I suspect that it uses bitswapping more effectively, so the SNRM doesn't fall as far during darkness as it does with other models. I'll be interested to see if you have similar experience.
Eric so far it looks like the worst snrm I see during the evening is about 3db and it has now been up and running for nearly 2 days, so initially I have to say this is much better than my old D-Link in managing snrm which would see as low as 1db (but it did not drop or re-sync).
Stuart
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Looking through the stats on my HG612 it shows DSLAM/MSAN type: IFTN which I gather is Infineon (SP?) is this likely to be better or worse with the HG612 router?
Stuart
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Infineon is very common - I think TT probably use them everywhere. The HG612 works very well with them, but which combination works best for you is something you can't really know until you try it. :)
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Infineon is very common - I think TT probably use them everywhere. The HG612 works very well with them, but which combination works best for you is something you can't really know until you try it. :)
Thanks Eric, I just wondered that was all. I don't remember the D-Link reporting the DSLAM type.
Stuart
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Just confirming that most (if not all) TalkTalk MSANs use the Infineon chipset --
# xdslcmd info --vendor
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 940 Kbps, Downstream rate = 6152 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 940 Kbps, Downstream rate = 5820 Kbps
ChipSet Vendor Id: IFTN:0x71c6
ChipSet VersionNumber: 0x71c6
ChipSet SerialNumber:
#
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Well the HG612 has now been up for nearly 24 hours at the slightly increased speed of 8690 kbps and seems to be holding the snrm well, I don't think it dropped below about 4db yesterday evening at worst case time. I know it is not a huge increase in speed since profile change but hey I'll squeeze every drop out of it I can ;D I'll leave it a couple of days and see if I can get any more out of it reliably.
Stuart