Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: willbard on November 10, 2007, 10:05:01 PM
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Has anyone any thoughts or knowledge that might help me find a wireless router that I can use on my broadband line?
BT’s line checker gives me this message for my line:
“Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that it is VERY UNLIKELY you will be able to receive 512Kbps or 256Kbps broadband service due to the very long length of your telephone line.”
Nonetheless my Voyager 210 gives me a reliable connection which doesn’t usually drop out more than once a week on average – current stats are:
Statistics Upstream Downstream
Line Rate 320 Kbps 448 Kbps
Noise Margin 7.6 dB 9.0 dB
Line Attenuation 63.0 dB 31.5 dB
Output Power 14.3 dBm 12.3 dBm
The 210 is connected to an ADSL faceplate at the master socket. I am looking for a wireless router to replace the 210 because – master socket very inconveniently placed and more than one computer. I expected some routers to have a problem because of the line length and so went for a Netgear DG834Gv3 but it wouldn’t synchronise, not even briefly. After a fairly lengthy interchange with Netgear support it was replaced with another new 834. No difference despite various different resets, updates and escalation to 2nd level support in UK – not a blink. I even went round to my neighbour and let him set it up on his line but still no joy. It seems very unlikely to me that I should have had 2 faulty products. I’ve also tried an Actiontec – no joy – and a neighbour’s BT Home Hub which did eventually synchronise after about 30 minutes but which I can’t use anyway as it is locked to BT. At the moment it seems that a 2-wire 2700 is likely to be my best bet with the added bonus of a good wireless signal (thick walls and nearest neighbour 250 metres away).
Can anyone help, please?
Bill
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Bit surprised about the Netgear :/
The HH may have just "hit lucky" - SNR varies throughout the course of the day.
Your best bet of attaining the best sync on long lines is normally during the day rather than evenings when SNR is normally at its highest.
>> 2-wire 2700
I have heard some good reports about them, but have never personally had my mits on one - but I believe that theyre not available for retail sale in the UK and only via an ISP (BT)?
Perhaps your best bet would be buying from somewhere that allows a money back return in case you have problems. (such as Argos).
Other routers that seem to perform well on longish lines are Voyager 2100/2110/2091 and most of the speedtouch routers.
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One other option that you could perhaps also consider if the 210 really is the most stable then you could try something that Ive done before :-
Continue to use the Voyager 210 as the "main router" handling your connection... then hook up another router to the ethernet port in the 210 making the new router work as a glorified Wireless access point.
Takes a little bit longer to configure since you have to turn off DHCP on at least one of the routers.
(I prefer to turn off DHCP on both routers and manually set the IP addresses on the local machines but thats optional).
You can buy Wireless Access points that you could hook up to your existing router... but when I was looking at this option, it was just as cheap to buy another router and use that :-[
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If you weren't able to take the other Netgear back, just use it as a dumb wireless access point and a convenient 4 port network switch? :)
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Thanks for the comments 'Kitz' and Chris. Appreciated.
I wasn't so much surprised as very disappointed when the Netgears didn't work. I had read, but not on your site, that they were good for long lines which is why I went for one. To be fair I don't know for certain that Netgear won't work. My supplier let me return the first one, said that it tested as faulty and replaced it. They also took back the second one, said it was faulty and refunded my money. They (Ebuyer) couldn't really have behaved better. Two failures out of two just means I've no faith in the product and no desire to waste more time on it.
Elsewhere I've read that the 2700 is as good as any on long lines but, as you say, normally only available to a BT customer and I'm not one (nor likely to be).
An outfit called Digidave, however, seems to sell 2-wire 2700's that are not BT linked, not expensive and can be returned if necessary so I'm inclined to give one a whirl unless someone knows better .....
Before I do though I will borrow my neighbour's Speedtouch and see how that does.
Thanks again
Bill
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I've had a (BT) 2-Wire 2700 for about a year. It certainly hasn't let me down but I'm on a very short line so I can't give any indication of its performance under difficult conditions I'm afraid.
Good luck anyway.
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>> An outfit called Digidave, however, seems to sell 2-wire 2700's
Thanks for that - Interesting to know :)
That price seems pretty damn reasonable too.
Sorry I couldnt be more helpful on their performance on long lines though.
Please let us know how it goes - your feedback could be helpful to others :)
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I've never heard of Digidave before, but it certainly looks interesting.
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I'm on a very long line and have tried various routers. The best so far is the 2wire2700HGV.
I have heard that a router may show up to 63db att on the downline but it may actually be higher than that.
A Netgear is normally good on a long line. I have one and it's pretty good.
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Would you say the 2wire is better than the netgear? Also what Netgear model and version have you got if you don't mind me asking? :)
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I have a Netgear DG834Gv3 I think the v3 is a Broadcom chipset and it's a good router and also have the Speedtouch 585v6 which is also good and I put in the latest software on it which gave me less errors. I'm finding that the 2wire is giving me better results though. Have only had it it a few days so it'll be a little while before I can give an accurate report.
Am just a beginner but am reading stuff on the net and learning fast. There are some good helpful people out there and if you have a long line you need all the help you can get. :)
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Hi, just wondering if you would care to update me on your findings with your new router as i'm very interested to see how it has performed.
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Yes updates to this thread and anyone else's experience of the BT/2wire 2700HGV, Speedtouch 585, Netgear DG8343G on long lines would be appreciated.
From my recent research (googling 'long line router' )I have read alot indicating that the 2700HGV would appear to be the winner
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/printthread.php?Cat=&Board=dslrouter&main=2977318&type=thread
The Speedtouch 585 also a good bet but probably second although it probably varies in cases as to which wins.
The Netgear is/has been a good bet, but the recent chipset confusion with v3 and v4 has confused things a bit .... not sure.
Digidave would appear to be the best source of 2700HGV unlocked, ebay's may be unlocked or BT locked (but can be unlocked with a bit of research or can be fried with a lack of research ;) )
It would be great to know if cheaper Speedtouchs and 2wired also had the 'long line components' as digidave sells some wired ones for a tenner.
I've also read some other stuff such as .... USB modems can sync sometimes when routers can't ....
Yes, it would certainly be useful to have a thread (this?) which is added to with experience of long line (6km+) router success. :)
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thats a fairly decent summary of the situation as it stands.
Re "USB modems can sync sometimes when some routers can't ".
There have been instances that I can recall where specifically the Voyager 205 and Speedtouch 330 have been able to sync when some routers cant.
The routers in question that I can recall users saying this are the BT HomeHub, the older ZyXel prestige routers, Belkin . Theres also a couple more been mentioned too, but I cant rememberl now sorry.
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My line is fairly long (and a bit ropey!) 50db attenuation.
I've moved from Netgear to 2Wire (also a Digidave one) then on to a Speedtouch 585v6 which sorted things for me :)
It seems it all depends on the chipset in your exchange (DSLAM )and also on the quality of your line which router will perform best for you. But after MUCH reading it looked like either the 2Wire or Speedtouch were the ones to go for.
Unfortunately I chose 2Wire first which still dropped my connection but performed better than the Netgear. I've been very impressed with the 585v6!
I recorded my experiences here: www.hmmm.ip3.co.uk/adsl-snr/index.shtml
I used the excellent and free RouterStats software to monitor my snr and sync. which I aslo recommend.
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I have a Netgear DG834Gv3 I think the v3 is a Broadcom chipset and it's a good router and also have the Speedtouch 585v6
It is the new V4 that has the Broadcom chipset, and it's as rare as rocking horse droppings...been looking for one myself.
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Has anyone any thoughts or knowledge that might help me find a wireless router that I can use on my broadband line?
BT’s line checker gives me this message for my line:
“Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that it is VERY UNLIKELY you will be able to receive 512Kbps or 256Kbps broadband service due to the very long length of your telephone line.”
Nonetheless my Voyager 210 gives me a reliable connection which doesn’t usually drop out more than once a week on average – current stats are:
Statistics Upstream Downstream
Line Rate 320 Kbps 448 Kbps
Noise Margin 7.6 dB 9.0 dB
Line Attenuation 63.0 dB 31.5 dB
Output Power 14.3 dBm 12.3 dBm
Can anyone help, please?
Bill
Those figures don't look right. Are the attenuation figures right? Downstream should be higher. Your output power seems low, default output power is 19.5 dBm downstream
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Here's an interesting page from 2wire where they specifically claim that the products are designed to be excellent long line performers.
http://www.2wire.com/?p=205
I wonder if all 2wire's products are equally good on long lines as there are some very cheap 2wire 1 port ethernet modems on ebay.
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I have a Netgear DG834Gv3 I think the v3 is a Broadcom chipset and it's a good router and also have the Speedtouch 585v6
It is the new V4 that has the Broadcom chipset, and it's as rare as rocking horse droppings...been looking for one myself.
You're right it is the v4 that has the Broadcom, however there will soon be a new release for the v3 that should make it stable on the intermittent lines.
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From: http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,1032.msg37725.html#msg37725
So the Netgear v1 v2 were the original long line performers with the AR7 chipset.
The v3 caused confusion because it had the AR7 for its adsl component but a broadcom chipset for its wifi, but once the firmware update arrives, it should be a rock solid bet again.
The v4 now has an adsl broadcom chipset. (Is this good on long lines?)
Does anyone know how the v4 (broadcom) performs or how it is likely to perform on long lines. If it isn't so good, then once the v4 reaches general circulation it won't be a good recommendation since you won't know if you're getting the v3 or v4 ,and it'll be off to ebay for older versions if you want to stick with Netgear for long lines.
The 2wire/BT 2700 and the Speedtouch 585 will be the ones to go for on long lines.
I know that the 2wire can be locked to an ISP (and can be unlocked by users with the right tools)
Can the speedtouch 585 be locked to a particular ISP? and if so can it easily be unlocked with the right tools ?
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From: http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,1032.msg37725.html#msg37725
The 2wire/BT 2700 and the Speedtouch 585 will be the ones to go for on long lines.
I know that the 2wire can be locked to an ISP (and can be unlocked by users with the right tools)
Can the speedtouch 585 be locked to a particular ISP? and if so can it easily be unlocked with the right tools ?
It probably can but you will be able to flash the firmware to change it i would think.
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Just found a great site for details of alot modems out there.
http://www.modem-help.co.uk/mfcs.html
The speedtouch 585 seems to have the same chipset as the cheaper wired 510 .... BCM6348
I wonder if the new Netgear DG834G broadcom chip is the same / as good. (unfortunately info is not on that site)
Here is a good site I've found all about unlocking the 2700, but you need to be careful
http://bt2700hgv.tripod.com/ir1002700HGV.htm
I will not describe how to reflash the firmware because this method does NOT work on the very newest revision of the 2700HGV hub with Dual SSID. ie. There is a very good chance of killing the router and there is no way of recovering from this situation at the time of writing.
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>> v4 (broadcom) performs or how it is likely to perform on long lines.
Little info because its a fairly new router.. however since the broadcom chipsets seem to work ok on other routers I cant forsee any problems.
Ive know someone who switched to a Voyager 2110 (broadcom chipset) when he was having problems with his line.
The Netgear DG834 v2 worked fine on it and did help stabilise his line but every month or so the DLM would attempt to lower his target SNR margin back down again. He went specifically to the Voyager 2110 with the broadcom chipset so that he could use DMT tool to manually change the target SNR himself rather than messing around waiting for the BTs DLM system to adjust.
Aside from that he said performance on the 2 routers were more or less the same.
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A replacement for the ST 585 v6 is due out in a few months, maybe sooner. Some product info is already available. I've forgotten the model number so cannot provide a link.