Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: SimonSays on August 16, 2015, 11:53:55 AM
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Hi all
To set the scene, I'm in a rural area and get the BT 'Faster Broadband' service (Infinity, but we are 2kms from the green cabinet so we only get the dregs - 5.5mbps usually.
I am on HH5 number 3 as they work for around 3 months and then start kicking devices off the network - usually when we're trying to stream through it (iPlayer, YouTube, etc.).
I have a Billion BiPac 7800N box that always provided me with a rock solid home network when I was an ADSL user - I obviously can't use the modem part of it now with the VDSL service.
The obvious answer is to use the HG612 and attach that to the BIPAC as my home network solution. Easy!
But... the HH5 always connects to the VDSL service and provides 5.5-6.0mbps service. The HG612 (and the other Openreach modem I had before) only ever provide 3.5-4.0mbps. I recently unlocked the HG612 and the line stats confirm that it's only sync'ing at around 4.4mbps.
I can't afford to lose 1.0-1.5mbps of my already-paltry connection speed.
Can anyone help with getting the HG612 to connect at the same speed and provide the same throughput as the HH5? I can't seem to find any reference to anyone else having or noticing the same issue.
Alternatively, can anyone point me at the correct way to set up the HH5 and the BIPAC so the HH5 provide what is essentially a modem-only service to the BIPAC? I know the HH5 has no modem-only mode but I imagine someone with better networking skills than I could get them to operate in harmony together (I can't!).
Thanks in advance!
Simon
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Is your HH5 a Type A or Type B ?
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If the HG612 syncs lower than the Home Hub, I am thinking the OP has an ECI cabinet and is using a Home Hub Type A.
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That's why I asked actually.
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That's why I asked actually.
I am just as curious as you :)
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Btw you really are going to need a modem-only mode device if you go for a two box solution. Two routers is a bad idea in a number of ways.
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Thanks - it's a HH5 A. I also have an ECI OpenReach modem that connects at exactly the same (lower) speeds as the HG612. The previous HH5 (which I assume was also an A as I had it very shortly after theey were launched) also failed as a home network device) also provided the same (faster) VDSL speeds
Weaver - sure... but that's the issue. I can't ignore the fact that I get 20% faster speeds with the HH5... Given that the wireless and DHCP can be disabled on the HH5 and the BIPAC is very flexible, I'm wondering if there is a two-router workaround that migh involve having them on different subnets, for example?
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You would possibly be better off on ADSL2 or even ADSL1, worth checking out. You need a good isp to sort out your line first I would say and then try somethning like a zyxel modem or modem/router or the DLink DSL-320B modem which I am using on a far longer line.
I would get the line probs sorted out first and forget modems until then - wood and trees.
cracked record warning: something to consider - try talking to Andrews and Arnold aa.net.uk about getting your line sorted and downgrading from VDSL2 poss. they will sort out you line or your money back, that's the deal they used to have going anyway.
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Should probably make the usual hardware changes to improve your chances.
Tandy adslnation rj-11 cable for your modem, might make a lot of difference, or none at all.
ferrites, wiring cleanup, faceplate microfilter (don't use a mk3), extensions, mains away from rj-11 cables and network cables, mains filtering. The usual stuff.
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Hi Weaver - more backstory:
I've lived at this address since before broadband existed... when ADSL 1 came on the scene, I got about 512K download. When ADSL 2 appeared, I got about 1.5mbps.
About 3 yrs ago, I chatted to an Openreach engineer who was doing some work up the road and he was amazingly helpful: he removed all the extraneous wiring from the property other than the master socket, he changed the physical line between the property and the DSLAM and he even gave me a Db-noise loop to put on the master socket to get the DSLAM to 'work a bit harder' and when I removed this after a few days, I was getting 3.5mbps.
When our local DSLAM was upgraded and e got Infinity on it, I upgraded (to the 'Faster Broadband' service, as previously mentioned) and I actually got 7mbps for a few days with a perfectly stable line but the automatic killjoy in the system decided I couldn't cope with such blistering line speed so it dropped over the course of around 14 days to 5.5mbps.
And that's what I get today, so long as I use the HH5(a).
Given the history and all the above, I'm not certain that, however abysmal my current service is (I live almost exactly 2kms outside of the M25, so we hardly remote although it's delightfully rural :) ), I'm not going to benefit from going back to a flavour of ADSL?! I'm 2mbps up on the best service I've ever received on ADSL and my neighbours, who all thought they could do better on one of BT's competitors, get 15mbps at best.
I really just want to understand what I might do to connect an Openreach modem at the same speed as the terrible HH5... I have both types (ECI and HG612). I believe our DSLAM is ECI (the smaller one, right?)... or to find someone who has experience of using the HH5 as a modem service to the BIPAC that always gave me A+ ethernet and WLAN service.
I'll always look at anything that could up the speed as well, but history suggests that I'm getting what I get at 5.5mbps until we either get FTTH as has happened in other rural parts of Surrey, or another DSLAM gets installed a little closer to my front door (as local roadworks teased would be happening but no further action has ever been seen!).
S
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I understand, now I know what you already knew. :-)
There has to be something really wrong here though, your speeds don't seem quite high enough to me, having looked at VDSL2 distance graphs, with either device. Perhaps the particular HG612 modem is duff, or it's the RJ11 cable that is the problem. (I had an experience where changing this cable speeded thing up massively.)
are you by any chance using a nasty RJ11 cable? A BT Mk3 faceplate?
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It's simple enough to connect the 7800 to the HH5. Just use a cable from the yellow LAN port on the HH5 to the EWAN port on the 7800 and set the 7800 to have a fixed IP address.
On the HH5, set the 7800 to be in the DMZ.
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Haha - yep... I've "got history"! :)
I'l certainly put my hands up to using whatever RJ11 is/as laying around. Very happy to hear what the correct item should be.
I have no idea what the faceplate is - I've picked up a bit of knowledge over the years but not much! I've attached a pic (or a link to one if I can't post images). This is the one a BT engineer fitted at some point. Could have been super-helpful guy, or guy who installed the HH5 when I went to Infinity.
https://goo.gl/photos/aN8818TY6u6Vprgv5 (https://goo.gl/photos/aN8818TY6u6Vprgv5)
Dray - it's not quite that simple, I don't think - that setup only worked sporadically and I'd get a lot of DNS and/or LAN IP issues. The 7800 has a sh*t-tonne of options, which I why I was hoping to find someone who could say "ah - you need to check this, swap that and put your pants on backwards while you change this setting..."
Thanks again for the help!
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Ahh that's the old ADSL faceplate.
You might get a small boost from using the MK2/MK3 SSFP.
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Dray - it's not quite that simple, I don't think - that setup only worked sporadically and I'd get a lot of DNS and/or LAN IP issues. The 7800 has a sh*t-tonne of options, which I why I was hoping to find someone who could say "ah - you need to check this, swap that and put your pants on backwards while you change this setting..."
How do you mean it only worked sporadically - did you try it before I suggested it?
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I doubt that excellent “mk1” faceplate is right for VDSL (could lose some speed). A mk2 is the one to go for (not mk3).
Something like this
http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/vte2015filteredfaceplate.html
Or a BT Mk2 faceplate
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@Simonsays - indeed the two routers thing will possibly give problems in certain applications
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a ZyXEL VMG1312-B could be worth considering. Can be a modem or a single-box modem/router.incl.wifi.
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OK - so it's worth getting a Mk2 faceplate and a decent RJ11 cable. I'll do both those..
I don't want to distract with the HH5-as-a-modem option... I understand it's a stupid idea to have multiple routers on a network but I was just after a short-term workaround. Ideally, I'd like to return the HH5 to BT as a ziplock bag full of its constituent atoms as it has provided me with nothing but stress.that's the ideal scenario.
In theory, the ECI modem should work better (assuming I'm right about the DSLAM being ECI), right? I don't care about hacking the modem unless I can eke some more speed out as a result. Seeing my line stats only induces tears...
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I was quite attracted to the theory about matching chipsets, but many learned others including our leader deny this. Although perhaps FTTC is an exception?
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OK - well, I've got both boxes anyway.
I'll gladly buy the ZyXEL if it will improve anything at all... I see there is a B10A and a B30A variant. Should I have a preference?
The only thing that slowed me down from buying a combined VDSL modem/router earlier as the issue with connection speed. I don't want to get my WLAN/LAN sorted at the expense of the line rate.
I'll improve the faceplate and RJ11 first - aside from these, is there anything that could be causing the HH5 to get faster connection/throughput? It's connected to the same faceplate and cables, of course.
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It may be easier to tell by comparing the stats from the HH5 and the HG612.
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Supposedly the MK3 faceplate is better for REIN but I have REIN and can't notice a difference between it and the MK2.
I believe the MK2 is quite a bit better than the MK1, though don't quote me on that.
I'd quite like to see how a hacked ECI runs on the OP's line.
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In theory, the ECI modem should work better (assuming I'm right about the DSLAM being ECI)
It's easy enough to find out http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/cabinet-lookup.htm#fttc_dslam
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Dray/AlecR - what stats would enlighten? I'm happy to post them...
Thanks
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Here are my HH5 connection stats: https://goo.gl/photos/kyk3kL46xU8B627J9 (https://goo.gl/photos/kyk3kL46xU8B627J9)
Let me know what you would want to see from the hacked HG612...
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Data rate, Noise/SNR margin and Max attainable. Also Line attenuation if you have them.
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On the HH5, if you go to Troubleshooting then Helpdesk, better stats are there.
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Amazing what I'm learning here...
Here are the extended HH5 stats: https://goo.gl/photos/kyk3kL46xU8B627J9 (https://goo.gl/photos/kyk3kL46xU8B627J9)
The cabinet is confirmed as an ECI.
I'll reply again with the HG612 stats in a few mins as I have to reconnect, obviously.
S
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err, they look the same stats to me
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If the HG612 syncs lower than the Home Hub, I am thinking the OP has an ECI cabinet and is using a Home Hub Type A.
caveat - That is not always the case and there is no hard and fast rule.
As you likely know the HH5B contains a BCM 63268 chipset. The HG612 contains a BCM 6368 chipset.
On many/most lines the BCM 63*68 series can eke out a bit more sync than the BCM 6368. I think most on here using VMG8324, 8800NL, EE BB2 or VR900 will confirm that. Im on an ECI and for me the BCM6368 gives 3.5Mbps more than a Lantiq and the BCM63268 another 3-3.5Mpbs on top of that.
Ive seen HH5Bs give more sync than HH5As, but admittedly the time when the Lantiqs do seem to come into their own is on the longer lines.
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Sorry... user error!
HH5 extended stats: https://goo.gl/photos/6oJbEQQ7dQ4oPvVr7 (https://goo.gl/photos/6oJbEQQ7dQ4oPvVr7)
HG612 line stat screenshots:
https://goo.gl/photos/1LDCQQZuX2rQRZUGA (https://goo.gl/photos/1LDCQQZuX2rQRZUGA)
https://goo.gl/photos/vJiCpCec9V5L2upY7 (https://goo.gl/photos/vJiCpCec9V5L2upY7)
https://goo.gl/photos/6tgSFKX3dcJCEp9Q7 (https://goo.gl/photos/6tgSFKX3dcJCEp9Q7)
https://goo.gl/photos/EfWnCng4m7mY93tT9 (https://goo.gl/photos/EfWnCng4m7mY93tT9)
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b*cat is just about to eat his evening meal . . . so this will be brief.
I believe SimonS* mentioned being located just outside the M25 and a little later on he mentioned Surrey. If he is within the catchment area for Walter's Wheelbarrow, it might prove advantageous to request a visit by Walter. :)
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Interesting. You may have some luck upgrading the firmware on the HG612 to the latest B030SP08. But other than that you should investigate whether your connection is running under optimal conditions, no noise, no faults, etc. I can't see changing your modem will give you substantial extra speed that would justify the cost, to be honest.
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OK - this is getting more and more intriguing... Walter's Wheelbarrow? Am I being recruited by MI5...?! I'm on Godstone exchange (NDGOD), and located not far (but too far) away.
Perhaps more will be revealed once B*Cat has eaten and watch Countryfile? :)
I'll add FW update to the HG612 to the list of easy wins.
Still no idea why the HH5 automatically gets more than the modem only, though..?
Kitz - note that my ECI modem does no better than the HG612, though...
In any event, you are all being extremely helpful and I am very grateful!
S
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<Burp!> (Discreetly.) :yum:
Walter trundles his wheelbarrow around a catchment area of the Surrey hills that is more or less centred upon Ewhurst. Optimisation of internal wiring, help in choosing the best modem/router, fault finding, getting the best xDSL service out of long lines, etc, are just a few of the tasks that are undertaken.
As there is only one Godstone (Surrey) exchange, OLO designator NDGOD, it does seem as if it might be worth making contact with Walter (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1253).
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As has already been discussed certain chips do work best on certain lines... so I'll try not to bore you any further on that subject :D and I'll attempt to answer your original questions.
As long as you have the latest firmware on the HG612, then there isnt any other way to push the HG612 to match the HH5. Therefore I can fully understand why you wish to retain the HH5A as your modem and therefore this would be your best scenario HH5 -> 7800N
However there is a known issue with the HH5A where it does on occasion drop both wifi and dsl connection. There was supposed to be a fix rolled out (https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity-Speed-Connection/BT-Home-Hub-5A-dropping-connection-updates/td-p/1449945), but you still see the odd mention of it.
What concerns me is Im unsure if when you attach the 7800N to the HH5A if you will still see the disconnection issue. It will entirely depend on whether its modem or wifi related.
However since you already have this equipment, then there is certainly no harm in trying it and it may do the job. :fingers: Unfortunately I dont have a HH5A and no idea how to put it into modem only mode. Perhaps one of the other guys can help you with this and tell you what you need to do.
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The HH5 doesn't have a modem-only mode, DMZ is about the best you'll get.
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Thanks, all!
Dray - I guess the DMZ will act in a similar way to putting the HH5 and 7800 on different subnets, and have the static 7800 use the HH5 as gateway and DNS server...?
Anyhoo - I'm going to PM the mysterious Walter and wait to see if it's the CIA that message me back. I'm assuming that if I pass the initial test, I fill Walter's Wheelbarrow with some decent Ale, or a couple of full-bodied Reds?
Life would be much easier if I'd just live in a town like most other folk, of course :)
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Yes, that's how I'd set it up - it works well, ignoring BTAgent's constant interference.
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I too have been trying out a setup as follows :-
FTTC -> HH5 type A (192.168.2.x) -> DMZ -> ASUS RT-AC87U (192.168.1.x)
I connected HH5 gig port to ASUS WAN gig port, set ASUS WAN to IP Static address on HH5 subnet
with HH5 IP as default gateway.
I also set different DNS servers in ASUS which is something you can't do in native HH5.
On HH5 turned off Wi-Fi, DHCP and Firewall then set DMZ to be ASUS router device.
This at present is working very well with no noticeable increase in ping or drop in throughput and
I have been able to use the Thinkbroadband ping monitor (I have static internet address) without issue.
The HH5 is holding a good sync rate and has been up for a few hours so far, will see how long it lasts.
The only loss is full stats information but I am thinking what you can't see you can't worry about .....
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Hi Everybody,
Just to say Walter's psychic wheelbarrow is being used remotely for now.
There's something very strange going on, unless it's just BT W database errors.
One of Simon's neighbours say 200 m closer to PCP 11 is estimated to have quite astonishing speeds for a line of probably just over 1.5 km.
I can only hope the figures are true and are the result of the good old GPO using over-sized conductors on a long line.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Many thanks for your help, Walter! I've fitted some of the revised hardware and dropped you an email...
Perhaps I need to swap out my neighbours' over-sized GPO conductors for the piddly little modern one I must be on. Bolt-cutters, Swiss Army knife and eye mask sneaking up to the green cabinet in the dead of night... :)
Simon
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BTW, here's a set of results from the DSLReports speed checker:
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/1153196 (http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/1153196)
Upstream has looked-up slightly overnight - now at a blistering 0.53Mb/s. I'm not expecting to be running a datacentre from home anytime soon, but it's a noticeable improvement for very little effort (Mk2 filter, shielded RJ11 cable)!
S
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Did you manage to update to the latest firmware on the HG612?
When I was running the older firmware I noticed a lot slower connection until I was advised to upgrade on here.
You have to do the firmware upgrade the same way you put the hacked firmware on as it won't update through the HG612 interface.