Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: Hitman on February 18, 2015, 04:53:45 PM
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Hi,
OR network engineer turned up today to investigate my fault (battery fault) on the line and inspected all the ground joints/inspection boxes, he said he'd found water in the third cover from my house and he had fixed the line which was now all clear, this was said to my missus whilst I was at work.
Question I ask is how long does it usually take for broadband to recover (after large interleaving on the line) after a line fix as currently (just got in) it's exactly the same???
Thanks,
This is a continuation from a thread I posted here which contains the original fault graphs/info...
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=15029.0
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The best course of action would be to speak to your ISP and, once the Openreach engineering notes have been made available to them, request that they now ask for Openreach for the DLM to be reset on your line.
I suspect it has not been done because the engineer who attended earlier today was an underground network (PSTN) specialist and not a broadband trained or multi-skilled technician (such as our Black Sheep).
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Thanks BK, yes I thought a reset should be on the cards now it's been fixed, I'll call BT (my ISP) now.
Thanks again!
EDIT: BT operator (india), said I have to wait 2-3 days for the line to stabilise but I should get a call from high level management (as the fault had been escalate to them) in the next day, so I can ask them about the reset.
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I had the same problem when OR were doing something with the box at my DP (pole) tonnes of reconnects which DLM punished me for and he never reset it when he left, Plusnet won't request openreach do a remote one either :(
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Unless the engineer is A) Working on an ISP-raised task specifically for your circuit, and B) Is a ADSL/VDSL trained engineer ...... then they won't reset your line.
We intervene in the network all the time, repairing wet joints, performing plant uplift, installing new lines, repairing existing ones ............... add to the mix that a lot of the time the routing details are incorrect, then there may be a time when your circuit will be disconnected and you will be left at the behest of the auto-DLM.
It's just how it is I'm afraid. Bear in mind 99% of folk are happy with that situation, it's just individuals who scrutinise their stats in-depth that realise they've been affected by DLM. :)
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Thanks Guy's!
@ BlackSheep,
I've been reading up some on this reset thing and generally Ppl are saying resets can only happen on the older ADSL, on Fibre (ADSL2) there is no option to do a reset, is this correct?
If true then we are left with our BB speed staying at a low level left behind by the fault/s, now way around this?
My isp being BT and who arranged OR engineers to fix the fault and putting me upto a higher level BT fault dept, can I not ask for something to be done, can they do anything, as posted earlier by BK I should request a DLM reset for my line?
Thanks.
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In laymans terms .....'Copper Broadband' (ADSL, ADSL1, ADSL2, ADSL2+) sees the ISP's control the DLM as it is their own equipment providing the DSL service, with some ISP's completely disabling said beast.
'Fibre to the Cab Broadband' (VDSL1, VDSL2), is owned completely by BT Openreach, and as such the ISP has to request a reset from them, or if a fault has been raised, then the engineer can perform this same function.
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Thanks BS,
yes I had a fault on the line which a BT (PSTN) Engineer found the joint in water causing a battery fault/short and fixed it , so i'm good to request a reset of said DLM now as it looks like the eng has not done it.
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As (I think) has been mooted before ....... a PSTN fault would not warrant the engineer to perform a reset. Only on a xDSL fault would this be done.
But, to answer your question ...... yes, I would heartily request a reset asap quoting previously repaired PSTN fault. :)
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Thing is I reported my broadband as being at fault, yet they sent a PSTN eng?
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Yes and you had a broadband engineer initially attend. He determined the problem to be in a waterlogged part of the underground network and so an underground trained engineer was then requested. Engineer number two then fixed the fault but being a telephony network specialist, a broadband DLM reset (circuit recalc) was not performed, being outside of his normal sphere of work.
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Exactly as said ^^^^^^^ . :)
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Thanks Guy's :)
Nuts how many different engineers only deal with certain parts, does makes things more complicated/time consuming going back and forth ::)
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Thanks Guy's :)
Nuts how many different engineers only deal with certain parts, does makes things more complicated/time consuming going back and forth ::)
To cut a long story short Hitman you would require another visit by an OR engineer to your premises to find (or not find a fault grey area) to initiate a DLM reset on your line.
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Nuts how many different engineers only deal with certain parts, does makes things more complicated/time consuming going back and forth ::)
I agree, it does seem to be a convoluted process. ;)
Try thinking about it using a medical analogy. You go into hospital for brain surgery. The only surgeon currently available specialises in orthopaedics. Does the orthopaedologist operate on your brain? :-\ :no:
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Thanks NS, thought BT would request a reset ???
I'll ask them for an engineer to check the BB as it's still the same, if not a little worse than before.
Nuts how many different engineers only deal with certain parts, does makes things more complicated/time consuming going back and forth ::)
I agree, it does seem to be a convoluted process. ;)
Try thinking about it using a medical analogy. You go into hospital for brain surgery. The only surgeon currently available specialises in orthopaedics. Does the orthopaedologist operate on your brain? :-\ :no:
Tell me about it :hmm:
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Nuts how many different engineers only deal with certain parts, does makes things more complicated/time consuming going back and forth ::)
I agree, it does seem to be a convoluted process. ;)
Try thinking about it using a medical analogy. You go into hospital for brain surgery. The only surgeon currently available specialises in orthopaedics. Does the orthopaedologist operate on your brain? :-\ :no:
That's a similar analogy to what I use, Mr Cat. Not many are completely fully-skilled, and because the single-skilled person (Frames or CAL/OMI) get paid exactly the same as someone with the whole lot (Frames, CAL/OMI, UG, ADSL, VDSL, Managed Installs, Hot-sites, DACS, SL&G, Flat-Roof, Private Wires, ISDN2/ISDN30) , then why would anybody but a fool* want to get up-skilled ??
This is the reason there is so much confusion with the EU and who does what ?
*See me ... :'( ??? :(
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I still think since the OR engineer called this in as a battery fault on the 16th of Feb and the waterlogged undergrould cable has been fixed within two days that's excellent service from openreach either way you look at it ;D
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That's a similar analogy to what I use, Mr Cat. Not many are completely fully-skilled, and because the single-skilled person (Frames or CAL/OMI) get paid exactly the same as someone with the whole lot (Frames, CAL/OMI, UG, ADSL, VDSL, Managed Installs, Hot-sites, DACS, SL&G, Flat-Roof, Private Wires, ISDN2/ISDN30) , then why would anybody but a fool* want to get up-skilled ??
I could answer that Blacksheep it's upto the individual some enjoy the job and some just see it as only a job, when you like your job it becomes a hobby and you want to know all there is about it and money does not come into the equation, yes it's nice to get paid for a job you love that's a bonus ;)
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That's a similar analogy to what I use, Mr Cat. Not many are completely fully-skilled, and because the single-skilled person (Frames or CAL/OMI) get paid exactly the same as someone with the whole lot (Frames, CAL/OMI, UG, ADSL, VDSL, Managed Installs, Hot-sites, DACS, SL&G, Flat-Roof, Private Wires, ISDN2/ISDN30) , then why would anybody but a fool* want to get up-skilled ??
This is the reason there is so much confusion with the EU and who does what ?
*See me ... :'( ??? :(
But if you were just one of the single-skilled technicians then you wouldn't be much use to us here -- except in the area of that one speciality, say, DACS! ;D
(b*cat performs one of his best Japanese style bows in acknowledgement of B*Sheep's multi-skilled ability.)
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I appreciate your comments guys, and no doubt as with yourselves, a thirst for learning and a want to 'know' your chosen profession ........ is the reason most engineers volunteered to upgrade a couple of decades ago. The then-promise of extra bunce in ones pay-packet, also helped with the leverage. ;)
Alas, (as mooted) the cash never appeared but still some of us kept taking on more skills such as Broadband, Hot-Sites, Local-Line Integrity ...... basically skills that you have to apply yourself, more than you would stapling a 4-wire internal cable around a skirting board. :) .......... and yes, I do get far more enjoyment out of those tasks on a faulting basis.
I seem to have wandered OT slightly, just wanted to put it out there why some engineers and some tasks will not see VDSL port-resets take place.
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Morning Guy's,
I left the stats running overnight and it looks like there's still a problem, they're all over the place, what do you think, see below...
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz297%2FNeonmodH%2FSNRMargin-2015-02-20-07.35.35_zpsgwz0vzwl.png&hash=594e1f4addaa882212b24ecbf2ab803054212c2d) (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/NeonmodH/media/SNRMargin-2015-02-20-07.35.35_zpsgwz0vzwl.png.html)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz297%2FNeonmodH%2FQLN-2015-02-20-07.35.45_zpsupoej2wz.png&hash=94d74697c4bc08c9c81d406e6d92ca84e53847e2) (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/NeonmodH/media/QLN-2015-02-20-07.35.45_zpsupoej2wz.png.html)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz297%2FNeonmodH%2FBitloading-2015-02-20-07.35.35_zpspvt5454h.png&hash=2463cb146ca09a042598016a4282e5af98b3769e) (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/NeonmodH/media/Bitloading-2015-02-20-07.35.35_zpspvt5454h.png.html)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz297%2FNeonmodH%2FHLog-2015-02-20-07.35.35_zpsooymyzbe.png&hash=b3cbde0a06e6c78f59d35bf43a987f16edf77ff6) (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/NeonmodH/media/HLog-2015-02-20-07.35.35_zpsooymyzbe.png.html)
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 20452 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39064 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 14095 Kbps, Downstream rate = 36674 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 5.7 7.1
Attn(dB): 14.7 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.5 6.7
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 26
B: 79 21
M: 1 1
T: 59 64
R: 16 10
S: 0.0694 0.0496
L: 11064 5160
D: 865 517
I: 96 32
N: 96 32
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 17198824 425892
OHFErr: 3 63
RS: 3044135476 2459656
RSCorr: 35015 307393
RSUnCorr: 4 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 3737078843 0
Data Cells: 170099876 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 2 10
SES: 0 2
UAS: 23 23
AS: 53037
Bearer 0
INP: 5.00 4.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 15 6
PER: 3.08 6.37
OR: 62.26 40.15
AgR: 36736.49 14134.78
Bitswap: 21222/21223 6471/6472
Total time = 14 hours 44 min 20 sec
FEC: 35015 307393
CRC: 3 63
ES: 2 10
SES: 0 2
UAS: 23 23
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
ERRORS
Per second Per minute Per hour Per day
CRC Up 0 0.07 4.29 103
Down 0 0 0.21 4.98
FEC Up 5.86 352 21099 506387
Down 0.67 40.4 2423 58144
HEC Up 0 0 0 0
Down 0 0 0 0
ES Up 0 0.01 0.62 14.9
Down 0 0 0.07 1.66
SES Up 0 0 0 0
Down 0 0 0 0
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That SNRM graph still is showing an "unhappy" circuit. The QLN graph seems to be "lifted" as a whole (I wonder if there still is mains hum present) and the bit loading graph shows some higher tones unable to be used. :-\
Of the four, only the Hlog graph "looks good".
As I am not a user of a VDSL2 circuit, I would prefer to wait and see what others think . . .
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Thanks BK!
Things do look a lot worse, i'm thinking there's still a fault with the actual copper pair as we're talking water ingress in an inspection hole, i'm a multskilled engineer myself in hi-tech security/ip systems and know from experience water is the worst thing that can happen to a joint/cable as it soaks up the line inside and out degrading all parts especially the copper wire (black copper anyone :no:).
When I got in last night and started the stats, the fluctuation on D/U was minimal, then later in the evening we got heavy rain/hale on off during most of the night and the results are as posted above.
Looks like this is going to be a long winded process, I bet when the BB eng finally comes he will find a faultly line as it always has been in the past, why BT won't arrange a proper rewire and get the job done and dusted ??? probably cost.
Although doing a quiet line test it seems all good, maybe the other guy's can shed some light as I don't know if a stuck DLM can produce these results or it is a continuing cable fault, still can't do a "Full" test using the BTwholesale speed test always comes back with an error occurred and only a basic speed result?