Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: jid on April 16, 2009, 04:43:47 PM
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Hi all,
My Dad and Me have been reading all the reports about Tiscali and their ever failing service...
We've spoke to Sky again, they are still willing to sort all of it out, but the disadvantage with them is, that I would want to use my own router!!!
My question is, what is people's verdict on Talk Talk? Can I use my own router with them? What is their support like, is their ADSL2+ any good, as may add that "boost" on along with the 80gig download.
I like that Talk Talk's forum get things done and are more than willing to do profile changes for you ! (something Tiscali loved doing btw ;)) :lol:
Your advice are most appreciated:D
Jamie
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I know a number of people using TalkTalk and they've had "mixed" experiences. I think the best summary is probably that they've learnt a lot. That said I've heard no major grumbles recently.
Yes you can use your own router - I've helped people configure them.
As far as I know their ADSL2+ works (why wouldn't it?) and probably has the same issues as everyone elses.
Support - can't comment, but their automated systems when you lose logon information seem OK.
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Thanks HP ;D
Another question I forgot, do they have Traffic Shaping as bad as Tiscali's?
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Hi JiD,
It's crystal ball time !
If you're expecting trouble then the more expensive smaller providers such as Zen on a one month contract are a better bet.
Again most of the smaller suppliers will let you use your own modem. Others such as O2 / be provide a "Free modem" which is usually bundled into the price of an annual or 18 month contract.
It does look as if there's likely to be some significant market movement which might involve CarPhoneWarehouse/AOL/TalkTalk and other larger players and such groups are sometimes less responsive to users' problems. It's also worth thinking about the different "Full" and "Half" LLU operators. E.g. if you go to TalkTalk you are often Fully unbundled which means more complications if you ever want to rejoin BT's phone. It's almost impossible to investigate fully unbundled suppliers reliability and compare them with BT's massive systems which very rarely have long term breakdowns. Remember also that most Mobile Cellular systems don't have power backup but BT land lines do. I've had that issue with Virgin where the telephone went silent after 15 minutes of a power cut. I complained and they replaced a battery cell in a level three cabinet (The slightly larger ones), but you normally don't find out until you can't make calls.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Hi Jamie.
TalkTalk was my first experience of BB exactly 2 years ago,in a word nightmare.I was always getting disconnects,always on the phone to......yes you've guessed it India.
I got out without any penalty after 1 month,never again,but saying that I have seen quite a few good reports of late so........
The thing is like most of these big isp's that tie you in to long contracts,when it works its fine,but when you need support(more than likely offshore) then thats where your nightmares begin.
There seems to be some happy customers here.
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_ratings.php
But not too happy here.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/ISP_rating.php
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Talk Talk have reasonable reports of late, they seem to have cleaned up/improved their service greatly.
The only problem is they are a Fully Un-Bundled service & if you want to leave you`ll likely have to pay IIRC £125 to go back to BT?
Sky is also another ISP that have gotten good reviews, but I believe its for exchanges with their own Kit inside, its a no-brainer if you already have Sky TV & your exchange is SKY LLU.
SKY is supposedly absolutely "Unlimited" No FUP?
Talk Talk is IIRC a 40Gb limit, but you can go for a add-on to 80Gb, If IIRC they do throttle certain things?
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At one point talktalk was bad.. really bad, and Ive first hand seen some very dire cases.
They do throttle certain apps, and around here on this exchange you do see some peak time slowness even on an LLU'd exchange.
Their telephone support was one of the worst that I personally have come across when contacting on behalf of others.
... although in fairness TT have of late had had a big turn around and support via their forum is considered good, and they do appear to be cleaning up their act at least on there and you dont hear of as many problems of late.
I understand your predicament jamie, in that your parents wont ever go for the likes of zen due to cost. Moving from Full MPF LLU to them would involve a lot of up front costs.
Out of the big LLUers then sky would probably be your best bet.. but you wanting to use your own router could be a sticking point. If you are given a DG934G sky router, then you can get your username and passy out of it and then use your own router... but the other router (the sagem) then you dont stand a chance.
O2 is worth considering, if they have LLU at your exchange and the cost is very reasonable if you have an 02 phone.
Of the IPStream ISPs - possibly Plusnet - but be aware of which accounts have what throttling. Downside is the long contract and the charge to go back to BT based.. iirc it will be somewhere around £50-60 (cant remember the exact figure off the top of my head, but they are about the cheapest for coming off MPF LLU back to BT based).
UKO is good - but that also may be a bit more than your parents are prepared to pay :/
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Hi all,
I did a live chat with Talk Talk on their site and they said they do a Pilot Installation bundle for all coming from LLU to LLU fully unbundled.
Sky will move us with no cost, as will Talk Talk.
The problem is, my Dad knows that Tiscali is the best deal around, and the service we've had of late has been awesome (fair do's it has!)
I do a lot of Downloading (all legal) such as films and music off iTunes Amazon iPlayer and all other things that like eating bandwidth, and the prospect of not having an unlimited package with Talk Talk is a little daunting, however 80gig could be fine - I had the thinkbroadband download monitor a while back and I peaked at 3gig in a week! About 10gig that month was, so 40 gig or even 80 gig should do us fine I guess.
I might run something to monitor bandwidth again to see how my usage is holding up.
If we can cope with the 40gig, then we can apply the speed boost instead of 80gig.
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JID
Just posted a new offer from TalkTalk for Tiscali customers, might be of interest?
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=4780.0
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Hi stevie,
Thanks for that.
However I cannot sign up to them online due to their phone checker saying I don't have a BT line (which I don't) as I am fully unbundled by Tiscali...
Might ring them...
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Hi stevie,
Thanks for that.
However I cannot sign up to them online due to their phone checker saying I don't have a BT line (which I don't) as I am fully unbundled by Tiscali...
Might ring them...
They must/should have thought about those who are fully unbundled or I`d have presumed so?
Nowt to lose on a phone call, just make sure if they say yes you can have the online deal....You get it in writing/email as proof...better to be safe.
I know their support is better than Tiscali`s, not sure on sales, so maybe having some line stats ready might help if you get through to a supervisor/tech person, thinking perhaps sych, attn & Db figures?? Likely as not postcode will prolly be enough?
Good luck.
Sky is prolly better if you have the option as regards D/L limits....I get the impression cost is a major factor though?
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Sky is prolly better if you have the option as regards D/L limits....I get the impression cost is a major factor though?
Tbh, sky is good in terms of cost and Unlimited, but I want to be able to use my own router...
My dad only bought the new one a few months ago and its a D Link DSL2740B which can be tweaked with DMT, handy with the state of my line some times....
I think the fact that Sky do that is a real put off for us. Its a big waste of money otherwise...Plus, the router is an N router which is vital as my house has thick walls.
We are still interested in Talk Talk but want to monitor the bandwidth over a month, so far, my computer alone projects 7gig thats only after it being installed for 2 days!! My Dad also has his only computer but that is projecting only about 1.5gig.
We are very heavy users...
80gig add on would be a must I think. ???
Tiscali was the perfect price with so called "unlimited" usage and they actually aren't bad now!! (don't hear that often!)
Dad is looking at staying on Tiscali as long as poss as sods law is that as soon as we go to Talk Talk Tiscali would recover and release ADSL2+, which I am waiting for!:D
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>> sods law is that as soon as we go to Talk Talk Tiscali would recover and release ADSL2+, which I am waiting for!
Just a point - TT already do adsl2+ and if you want faster speeds you go for their 'Speed Boost' add on
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>> sods law is that as soon as we go to Talk Talk Tiscali would recover and release ADSL2+, which I am waiting for!
Just a point - TT already do adsl2+ and if you want faster speeds you go for their 'Speed Boost' add on
I noticed that yes for £4 a month.
However, as you know, cost is an issue and saving money was the point of taking the phone line over to Tiscali. £4 would need to be for 80gig bandwidth and £4 for speed which would bring our monthly cost to almost £26.
I understand that Tiscali would charge more but the fact of paying just £4 to make it as close to "unlimited" as possible seems a waste where we get get as much as we want on Tiscali.
I would be very worried about going over the limit and therefore getting bottlenecked if on Talk Talk. If they did 80gig in the price and £4 for speed boost now that would be great - but we now know why Tiscali are in the state they are - they are too cheap!!
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jamie
Just thought - would adsl2+ be worth it on your line? Not sure if it would give you that much more speed since iirc you dont get the full 8Mb sync now?
With TT the speed boost price is only if you want more than 8Mb. Are you wanting adsl2+ for the extra boost it may give over adsl1.
afaik - and Im not guaranteeing this because I dont know for sure.. but Im pretty sure Ive seen some TT connections <8Mb running on adsl2+
TalkTalk MSANs are configured to accept adsl1 or adsl2+ connections. Normally when you connect it will select whats best for your line during the sync process. But if you have a router that allows you to specify G.992.5(adsl2+) rather than G.992.1 (g.DMT) you can over-rule what the MSAN selects in a similar way in which you can tweak the SNRM.
I can certainly over-rule the default adsl specification set on Be's MSANs using my router.
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I can get the full 8meg sync, but Tiscali have me on a stupid 12dB profile so I need to use DMT to push it down to a 6dB to get the 8128kbps with around 0.6dB spare margin.
Now I understand that Attenuation goes up when going to ADSL2+ by about 3dB is it?
In that case I should end up with either 32 or 33dB attenuation after going over as my attenuation hovers around 29 or 30 at the moment??
According to the calculator on here, I will either get 11 or 12 meg which would still be a welcomed improvement. ;D
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>> Now I understand that Attenuation goes up when going to ADSL2+ by about 3dB is it?
On average yes... but it does depend on the router (how it records the attenuation) and how much more speed you get. The higher attenuation is because there is a wider band of available frequencies to measure the attenuation over.
If youre using the same router and its one that measures over the average tones in use rather than the whole available spectrum, and your speed doesnt increase too much, then your change in attenuation will be small.
>> I will either get 11 or 12 meg
Theres one thing that worries me about your line Jamie and thats those gaps and dips at the higher end frequencies which are still there. Because your bit loading at that point isnt up to much, it will still be there regardless if you are on adsl1 or adsl2+ and will impact on your maximum speed. :(
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Yep those gaps are annoying ???
So the gaps in the higher frequencies are where ADSL2+ works then? If so I wouldn't have a guarantee of improved speed due to the gaps...
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>> So the gaps in the higher frequencies are where ADSL2+ works then?
Sorry if I wasnt clear I meant in the higher range of the adsl1 frequencies.
>> If so I wouldn't have a guarantee of improved speed due to the gaps...
Unfortunately not - if you cant sync at the full 8Mb on adsl 1, then adsl2+ isnt going to give you that much more.
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I can confirm that in Ewhurst where everybody has a minimum line distance of 3 km and one particular house at about 4 km managed to persuade O2 to give him an ADSL2+ service.
His download speed was identical but he increased his upload speed from about 2.4 mbps to 2.8 mbps.
Kind regards,
Walter
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@Kitz, I can do 8128 no probs at 6dB Target snr, but not any higher (can't a lot of lines)
@walter, Upload isn't a huge issue for me, I need download more:D
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Just had an interesting online chat with TalkTalk.
I asked about BB tech support(bear in mind I already know its Indian)
I asked if TT's BB support is UK based.
Reply: I think it is London based.
Me: You think,can you please tell me for certain.
Reply: I don't have that information,I think it is worldwide.
Me: Worldwide,You mean India.
Reply:Yes we have call centres there and also in the USA.
Me: Goodbye. :D
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>> Yes we have call centres there and also in the USA.
The latter is news to me, Ive not heard that one before!!
Although I believe they do also have call centres in South Africa.. but thats a hell of a way from the USA :no:
You'd think they'd know where their own call centres are located wouldn't you. ;)
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Interesting Talk Talk tactic.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/bbphone/article.html?in_article_id=483025&in_page_id=182&position=moretopstories
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Just come to this late as I've been away. I moved to TT fully LLU'd last August and have now got my line setlled down and it stays up well drops maybe once in 6-8 weeks. Cant get more than just over 6meg download speed which is fine. For me unlimited calls to landline, plus line rental plus BB saved me a lot over BT + Demon ISP. I've only used their forum for support and so far when needed (not often about two or three ties in fist couple of weeks) its been fine, several other family members have switched before me with no problems then or since. Just my experience. I also have my own router although TT did supply one anyway. I'm about 2.8km from exchange btw. They do use dynamic IP which is a small PITA but nothing which cannot be overcome usig a dyndns service.
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I don't know whats happening at TalkTalk,but they are all of a sudden getting some excellent comments especially from users over at DSLZoneUK.
Has something happened as to why this is,have they finally got their act together............
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I know quite a few people on TT and while they do "have their moments" they are now just middle-of-the-road, neither brilliant nor awful.
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But are they ready (and capable) of absorbing all the unfortunate refugees from the dreaded T ?
Kind regards,
Walter