Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: newguy on February 03, 2016, 07:03:31 PM
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Hello,
I have converted my house into two self contained flats.
Basically, there is a cellar, a ground floor and first floor. If a tenant wants to install broadband, they can install a BT line into the cellar. My plan is to have wires ready at the cellar to each of the two flats.
Now that everything is back to brick, I want to install telephone wiring for a future ADSL connection (to save future tenants drilling holes).
I have heard that I can use cat5e cable instead of standard telephone cable? Can someone guide me as to:
1. What cat 5e cable I can use within walls - standard or copper?
2. Do I need to run the cable in conduit?
3. How does the cat 5e cable connect to a standard phone socket (one end to the master socket and the other end to a telephone socket at the flat).
Thanks in anticipation.
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I think if I was renting a flat I'd want the master socket actually in the flat, that was nobody could easily connect in my line ;)
For wiring see my guide here (http://s672.photobucket.com/user/Ronskiman/media/Computer/xDSL%20extension%20wiring/SDC12679.jpg.html?sort=6&o=0), I don't think it needs to be conduit but would be useful in some places if you needed to run extra cables through at some point. You'll need solid core cable as well so it can be pushed into the punch down fittings, stranded cable will not make a good connection.
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I thought only BT could wire or install a master socket? There are no BT connections at present.
What would happen when a tenant rings BT to ask for a new installation?
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It's a very grey area as anyone can buy a 'Master socket', but officially only BTOR can connect the network side, as you allude to.
However, Ronski has a very good point in that the NTE (Master socket) should rightly be inside the EU's rented space to avoid illicit use of the circuit by anyone else.
A very simple method would be to use whatever twisted-pair telephony cable you chose (It really doesn't matter) to wire from the cellar to each apartment and leave the two wires loose in the cellar. The BTOR engineer will route the incoming feed (from the telegraph pole or underground feed - whichever is present on the street) also into the cellar and he would fit a BT78/80 at that point. This is just a simple junction box. He would then install the NTE in the apartment. Both connections should take no more than 15mins to finish ........ and the engineer would be overjoyed you have already installed the internal cables ...... believe me. :) :)
As an aside, if you want the NTE5 to be flush-mounted (As BTOR will only fix the NTE as wall-mounted and will obviously stick out further than flush-mounted) .................. then use a deep back-box as some of the shallow back-boxes aren't wide enough to take the NTE.
HTH. :)
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So I could put a master socket in the flat, wired via Cat5e going down to the cellar and leave the wires there for when/IF the tenant wanted to have a BT come and install?
How does Cat5e wire into a master socket?
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Yes you could. Cat5 isn't necessary (more costly than 2pr telephone cable), but if you've already got the cable then there is no problem using it.
Basically just pull out the blue/white pair of wires (this will become obvious when you strip the cable back) and connect them to the A&B terminal points of the Master Socket, or the 2&5 terminals ........ it all depends on what type of socket you purchase.
Alternatively you could leave the wire coiled up in the back-box and let the engineer connect a BTOR master socket. as the tenant will be paying for this service anyway.
The only saving grace would be that the tenant wouldn't need to be at home if you pre-connected a master socket, but you would still need to be there to give access to the cellar.
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Hi
We normally network buildings, and OR are very happy that's it's all ready.
As its only 2 points, one in each flat, I would myself, run cat5e to each flat, and cellar clearly mark cable to identify which flat it is, and in the flat, put a sunken back plate in, before the plasters do the walls, coil the cable and put a blank plate over the socket, hiding the cable.
That's job done ready for if/when needed
Many thanks
John
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Thanks for the advice all.
Well a turn up for the books.. I had no idea both Virgin Media and BT have teams dedicated to this sort of thing. VM got back to me really quickly, supply the equipment (within a couple of weeks) and guidance as to how to fit BT have a complex form (which I have submitted with the information I know) and can take 4-8 weeks. Considering I'm starting first fix electrics shortly, it looks like VM will be installed and just my original plan for a phone socket for BT into each flat - not sure what else they want to install anyway!
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If I were doing a house like my own again now, I would do ducting with strings in it. That way someday someone could even pull fibre through.
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Have you seen the Openreach Developers Handbook (http://www.newdevelopments-openreach.co.uk/developers-and-architects/developers-handbook.aspx)?
There are two - one for copper and the other for fibre.. though obviously it won't all be relevant for you.
Personally, like Weaver, I would do whatever I could to make the apartments ready for G.Fast/Fibre as well as a normal telephone line
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I came across the BT site today and the Developers Handbook. If they get back to me in time, I'm happy to install it (fibre).
Can you explain ducting with strings to me?
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Ducting is simply that. Fireproof plastic duct, modest diameter.
You leave a piece of string twice the length of the duct in place so you can pull through whatever future cable standard you need. Things in this area are changing so fast.
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If it's small ducting you don't need to leave string in place. When I did my cinema room I used corrugated plastic ducting of various sizes up to 32mm. Simply cable tie some cotton wool or even kitchen towel to your cable you want to thread through and then suck it through with a hoover. It worked very well with speaker and network cables, for hdmi I simply sucked some string through and then pulled the cable through, although the ridges can cause problems so smooth tube would be better.
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Virgin Media came around today to do a brief site survey - damn they're quick! BT/Openreach still want plans and stuff which I have sent them.
Can anyone recommend me a supplier for:
1. cat 5e/cat 6 cable and faceplates?
2. some basic tools (punch etc.) to install the able and faceplates?
3 ducting?
Many thanks.
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The usual suspects are (in no particular order) --
- Run It Direct (http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/)
- Clarity (https://www.claritybroadband.co.uk/)
- Solwise (http://www.solwise.co.uk/)
And I'm sure that others can be added to that list. ;)
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Beware... Last time I used clarity, I received no product, no response to emails, and no refund. I didn't seem to be alone either.
I don't often make absolute statements warning people off a place ... but I have no problem doing so here.
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Thanks. Any other recommendations?
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I've used netshop, very helpful.
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And https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/ (https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/) I see they have a range of conduit.
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http://www.toolstation.com
http://www.screwfix.com
Sent to your door.
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I got my conduit and fittings from .. http://www.discount-electrical.co.uk/
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An update!
BT Openreach have said I can only have copper as fibre has a very long time (many months) between request and supply of cables. The area engineer was also quite difficult to deal with and said I could not route their wiring into the cellar from outside the property, however, changed his tune when I said VM are fine with it! So it looks like just copper from BT.
VM have delivered their cables and I have begun installing them - I *think* it's RG6 and there will be a fair bit left over. Can I use this for my satellite install?
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Does anyone know what size backbox I could use to flush mount a BT master socket? I won't be doing the front end fitting myself (BT will) but I rather have it sunk in the wall if possible.
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Just a bog-standard electrical single back-box, but don't install a shallow one or the NTE5 won't fit properly.
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Will a 35mm single gang metal backbox (normally they're 25mm I think?) do?
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Yeah ....... ideal.
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Use a 35mm back box, gives you a bit more space for wiring.
And use 20mm open rubber grommets on the knockouts, will save you chaffing the wire, as edges of knockouts can be sharp.
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p66249
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Electrical/d190/Boxes+%26+Pattresses/sd2634/Metal+Box+1+Gang/p50143