Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: Bayardo on August 20, 2012, 09:05:17 PM

Title: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 20, 2012, 09:05:17 PM
My master socket is in the same corner of the lounge as the tv, which because of wiring etc is about 2ft from the socket.
I can't help but feel that this is having an effect on my broadband service. My router (Billion 7300n) is connected via an auxiliary socket in a bedroom above the lounge. For various reasons I'm thinking of connecting directly to the master socket, with a repeater (if needed) elsewhere in the house.

When I first went on to ADSL I was getting a fairly consistent sync in region of 20000kbps, but since the end of June it's been dropping steadily and is now about 17500. I'm also getting a lot of times where, according to data on my ISPs records, I frequently get a "lost carrier". This normally lasts only for a matter of seconds & I don't notice any problem from it when I'm on line.

However,I'm probably going to fit an adsl nation faceplate on the master socket to see if this makes any general improvement.

Is it likely to be a worthwhile change?
I've looked at the master socket and see that the wiring is orange on 2, green on 3 & white on 5. The adsl plate has "phone" against connectors 2,3 & 5 and "adsl" against other connectors marked  A & B.

Can you please advise me as to how I connect to the new plate? Do I just connect the wiring to 2,3 & 5 on the new plate, or do I need to put 1 wire to A or B, & if so, which wire & to which letter?


Thanks
Bayardo
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: sheddyian on August 21, 2012, 02:14:53 PM
I found the ADSL Nation filtered faceplate very worthwhile, although I did have an existing problem that I didn't ever find the cause of, but which the ADSL nation faceplate circumvented.

After my ADSL was switched on, I could hear it as a hiss on the line, and speech quality went down, despite trying different filters on the telephone.  Previously line quality for speech had been excellent.

I fitted an ADSL filtered faceplate, and this problem was resolved - speech quality excellent again.

It also gained me additional throughput and slight reduction in attenuation.

So, in every regard, I was very pleased  ;D

Regards to wiring, I'm sure someone else here will be able to give you more detailed instructions, but basically :

phone line into house goes to the A & B terminals.

Your extension sockets are then wired to the 2 3 and 5 terminals.

This has the effect of removing ADSL signals from all extension sockets (so you no longer need microfilters on each extension socket that's in use), and eliminating (or significantly reducing) interference from those sockets getting back to your ADSL signal. 

If you've currently got wires going to terminals 2 3 and 5, then you've got the ring wire connected.  You don't need this, and it can cause problems with ADSL.  Disconnect the wire on terminal 3.  You only need 2 and 5.  Then resynch your modem.  Did the throughput increase?  :) See here for more details http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm)

Ian
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 21, 2012, 04:43:43 PM
Thanks for your interest & reply Ian.
I'm led to believe that if I run the router from the master socket, then it's simply a matter of wiring the new plate up in the same
way as the BT one. i.e. orange to 2/green to 3 & white to 5 So all I need in wiring is up to 2 & 5, & the bell wire (3/green) can, as you say, be ditched.

I'm also led to believe that as regards the extension socket, it needs to be connected to A&B.
 
This is a BT socket and the connecting cable passes through the bedroom wall, along the outside of the house, & back in to the master.
I imagine it's connected correctly, (Orange 2/green 3/white 5/black 6)and nothing needs to be done as it's always worked ok, but I only need 2 & 5 again.
The Kitz instructions indicate that b = 2 & A = 5.

On the ADSLNation do I ignore either the "ADSL connectors" or the "phone connectors", or use one from each bank. If so, which?
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Black Sheep on August 21, 2012, 06:46:35 PM
It's getting slightly confusing now ??

If the master socket is where you say it is (side of TV), you wont need to get involved in the A-B side of the connection.

Simply remove your current front-plate, and reconnect the same wires to the same terminal numbers (2,3,5). You will need to connect up No.3 on the off-chance your phone is quite old and it needs the bell-shunt to make it ring. Or alternatively, leave the old dongle filters connected as they have a ringing capacitor incorporated into their build.

Should take approx 1 minute to complete this task. :)
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: sheddyian on August 21, 2012, 06:57:00 PM

I am also a bit puzzled.

Perhaps if you could supply some photos of what you've got (including wiring) it might help, particularly showing the type of master socket that you've got.  And also a picture or link to the particular ADSL Nation faceplate you've got (or are thinking of fitting, if you've not already bought it).


Ian
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 21, 2012, 07:04:30 PM
Hello B S
Thanks for taking a look at this.

You're confused? I'm befuddled. Mountains & molehills come to mind. Guess I'm looking for potential problems
that don't & won't exist.

I'll follow your advice, but will have to leave it until tomorrow now due to other matters (A TP-Link Access point among them
that will not revert to default settings even tho' I've held the reset button several times for the required period!!!!)
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 21, 2012, 08:08:54 PM

I am also a bit puzzled.

Perhaps if you could supply some photos of what you've got (including wiring) it might help, particularly showing the type of master socket that you've got.  And also a picture or link to the particular ADSL Nation faceplate you've got (or are thinking of fitting, if you've not already bought it).


Ian

Hello Ian

Pics attached:
0673 - New ADSL Plate
0674 - Current BT Plate
0675 - Extension in the bedroom
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Black Sheep on August 21, 2012, 08:42:54 PM
As mooted above, just take the wires off the original frontplate, and reconnect to the 'phone part' of the ADSL frontplate. Dont need to do anything with your extention upstairs. :)
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Black Sheep on August 21, 2012, 08:47:20 PM
The key is to keep things simple where possible. You may get advice about the 'black wire' connected to T6 on your upstairs extention socket, as in it isn't doing anything productive at all. You could in fact disconnect it, but then you could inadvertently dislodge one of the other wires (the ones that are doing something) as you are doing it ......... as I say, keep it simple.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 21, 2012, 10:11:45 PM
Excellent advice. I'll take a dose of it tomorrow afternoon, all being well

Thanks

Ian
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: HPsauce on August 21, 2012, 10:35:58 PM
If ever there was an installation crying out for the "new" BT "VDSL" plate it's that one.
No wiring required, just "slide it in".

I have one and it's great: VDSL = VDSL and ADSL.  ;)

Here's a random one on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260939544741
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: sheddyian on August 21, 2012, 10:59:37 PM
As mooted above, just take the wires off the original frontplate, and reconnect to the 'phone part' of the ADSL frontplate. Dont need to do anything with your extention upstairs. :)

Mr Black Sheep knows what he's talking about, and I withdraw my confusing comments earlier.

With what you've got there, as Black Sheep says, just swap the wires over directly from the current front plate to the new one. 

Ian
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 21, 2012, 11:29:07 PM
Ian, your comments were not really confusing. The start of it all was the rather brief instruction leaflet that came with the plate.
Also, I do tend, in every scenario, to look for possible hitches, problems drawbacks etc. Pessimist? Moi?
At least a pessimist is often pleasantly surprised, whereas an optimist doesn't get much more than he expected!!

Thanks

Ian (alternative)
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 23, 2012, 07:31:59 AM
Good morning all. The deed has just been done with the wires on identical terminals to the NTE5 plate & is running ok.
Sync was 17402, now 18225, (but has been 20298 at it's best). Now a case of monitoring it for a week or two to see if I keep
getting the "lost-carriers".

Thank you all for your input & help

It's been much appreciated

Regards
Bayardo
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on August 23, 2012, 06:13:16 PM
 :thumbs:
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: sheddyian on August 23, 2012, 06:36:07 PM
Just curious, did you note any other before/after stats?

I saw a small drop in line attenuation and an increase in S/N margin when I fitted mine.

Ian
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Black Sheep on August 23, 2012, 06:44:43 PM
Thats probably because your house was on fire, Sheddy. There would have been less wiring to measure, ergo lower attenuation. The 'Smoke to Noise Ratio' increases in a linear fashion, as fumes enter the smoke alarm.

Couldn't resist pal (knowing you're ok of course).  :P ;D
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: sheddyian on August 23, 2012, 06:53:07 PM
Well, Black Sheep, I think more investigation should be done into temperature vs line noise.  :D

For a while a few months ago there did appear to be a correlation between sunlight in the late afternoon/early evening heating the South West facing wall where my phone line runs down, and the drop in available S/N ratio to as low as 3.5db.  Hot sun/hot wall seemed to = lower S/N ratio.

However, in the recent hot spell, I've seen no such drop when the sun is on the wire, so I guess they're actually unrelated.

Should I try applying a blow lamp gently to the cable to test my theory though?  ???

Mm perhaps not.

Ian
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Black Sheep on August 23, 2012, 06:59:44 PM
Ha ha ..... lets leave the blowtorch theorum's for the time-being, shall we ?? ;D

I remember when serving my time as a spark, that we had to take into account south-facing features when erecting outside cabling, regarding temp coefficients etc. Its way to far back for me to remember, but it does play an impact somewhere ?? I think its most likely the resistivity of the circuit which would increase as it gets hotter.

I'm sure one of our resident scientists will post-up the 'relevants' in due course ??  ;D
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: sheddyian on August 23, 2012, 07:09:46 PM
I think it works that a given cable is said to be rated for x amps in normal circumstances (ie tacked along a wall or rafter).  In normal use that cable will warm up to a small degree, which is fine, but you have to factor in it's location in some circumstances, eg if running beneath loft insulation it can safely carry LESS current as it'll get warmer, if bundled with other cables ditto to a lesser degree, and possibly, if suspended in air it can be rated up slightly.

I once read an article and a table of % ratings up and down for given circumstances (probably in a trade magazine), so perhaps it's something like that that you're remembering Black Sheep?  Maybe it's part of the electrical regs?

Meanwhile, I'm blaming my previous regular but now stable drop in S/N margin on sun spot activity.  It's all been fine since I bought my tin foil hat :)

Ian

OMG maybe it was the hat that caused the fire?  :o
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Black Sheep on August 23, 2012, 07:28:38 PM
I think it works that a given cable is said to be rated for x amps in normal circumstances (ie tacked along a wall or rafter).  In normal use that cable will warm up to a small degree, which is fine, but you have to factor in it's location in some circumstances, eg if running beneath loft insulation it can safely carry LESS current as it'll get warmer, if bundled with other cables ditto to a lesser degree, and possibly, if suspended in air it can be rated up slightly.

I once read an article and a table of % ratings up and down for given circumstances (probably in a trade magazine), so perhaps it's something like that that you're remembering Black Sheep?  Maybe it's part of the electrical regs?

Meanwhile, I'm blaming my previous regular but now stable drop in S/N margin on sun spot activity.  It's all been fine since I bought my tin foil hat :)

Ian

OMG maybe it was the hat that caused the fire?  :o

If there's one thing you can be absolutely certain of ..... it will be in the 17th Edition Regs. The EE's bible. Also, a major headache to navigate around as memory recalls. :-X Sorry, I seem to have taken this thread OT. :(
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 23, 2012, 08:17:59 PM
Premature?

I moved the router from the lounge back to where I normally have it, on the bedroom extension via a dongle & there is no connection to the net :(.

I have a none-digital phone on the extension which is working o.k.

The router is now back on the lounge window sill. So far no comment from the wife about it :o :)
If she does object I'll have to try & get the TP-Link repeater running if i can.

Sheddyian
I have a note of the router stats before the changeover. I'll dig them out & also check the current stats & see what effect there has been, if any.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: sheddyian on August 23, 2012, 08:26:09 PM
I moved the router from the lounge back to where I normally have it, on the bedroom extension via a dongle & there is no connection to the net :(.

I have a none-digital phone on the extension which is working o.k.

That is entirely correct, it's designed to do that.

Basically, only the socket on the faceplate will have an ADSL signal on it.  Any other phone sockets will have the ADSL signal filtered out by your new faceplate.

It means you don't need filters on any of your phones, and a reduction in interference with the ADSL signal.

Having the modem connected to the filtered faceplate also means you've kept the wiring run as short as possible.

So it's all good really (providing you can keep your other half happy about it's location!)  ;D

Ian
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Black Sheep on August 23, 2012, 08:31:04 PM
As Sheddy says, the only place you can plug your router in now, is at the filtered faceplate next to the TV.

There are other ways around this in order to move it back upstairs, but it's slightly more involved. I'd buy SWMBO a bunch of flowers and cook her a meal as part of the 'Appeasement manouvre'.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 23, 2012, 09:01:15 PM
As Sheddy says, the only place you can plug your router in now, is at the filtered faceplate next to the TV.

There are other ways around this in order to move it back upstairs, but it's slightly more involved. I'd buy SWMBO a bunch of flowers and cook her a meal as part of the 'Appeasement manouvre'.

As she's already on a promise of a weekend break (she knows not where) I'll be able to get away from the flowers & cooking I think ;)

Sheddy - stats as below, but they're a bit beyond me when they refer to SNR margin.

20/08/12 & 23/10/12
Up              443 kbps/443  down 18096/18362
SNR up       18.9/31.1        down 6.0/6.0
Line Attn up 10.8/10.5       down 19.0/19.0


Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: sheddyian on August 23, 2012, 10:26:31 PM
The quite large jump in SNR UP says to me that there is a good improvement in the quality of the line as seen from the modem.  So that's a good thing.

Your upstream speed hasn't changed, perhaps it will increase after a few days now that the line quality is improved overall.

There are others here who know an awful lot more about the inner workings of DLM than I do, who might suggest what to do next, but for the moment, I'd leave it all connected up and online all the time, and keep an eye on the stability.

Ian
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 23, 2012, 11:07:45 PM
The quite large jump in SNR UP says to me that there is a good improvement in the quality of the line as seen from the modem.  So that's a good thing.

Your upstream speed hasn't changed, perhaps it will increase after a few days now that the line quality is improved overall.

There are others here who know an awful lot more about the inner workings of DLM than I do, who might suggest what to do next, but for the moment, I'd leave it all connected up and online all the time, and keep an eye on the stability.

Ian
Thanks for that Sheddy.
I did (I think) do a re-sync after the new plate went in. I disconnected The router completely from the internet for about 30 minutes, and after re-installing it came back with 18225 at 07:18 this morning, but at 08:00 it had dropped to 18175 & at 19:57 it had dropped to 17875.
There was a lost-carrier at 19:43:53, and it logged back in at 19:57:11, but that would most likely have been down to me moving the router to the extension & back to the master socket.

I do normally leave it connected, so I'll keep an eye on things

Ian
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 30, 2012, 10:09:07 AM
Just looked at my stats again:

443/20140 kbps up/down
30/0db up/down snr
10.5/18db up/down attentuation

ISP site shows sync currently as 19607
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on August 30, 2012, 02:04:02 PM
Quote
30/0db up/down snr

That does not look right.  :no:

Are you sure you have noted the correct values?  :-\
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 30, 2012, 03:36:39 PM
Yes - It's very close to what is showing on the router at the moment.

I've attached a screengrab, along with data from my ISP's control panel.

I thought I might be free of the I'm still getting the "Lost Carrier" thing, but it's still there
on the logs.

I'm puzzled by the sync log as it shows the upward changes from the 29th (19646), and I'm fairly sure that
it hadn't moved up from the 17891 level at that time.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Black Sheep on August 30, 2012, 04:02:53 PM
Quote
30/0db up/down snr

That does not look right.  :no:

Are you sure you have noted the correct values?  :-\

Concur with the cat ..... the figures are a nonsense ?? Misreporting ??
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on August 30, 2012, 04:03:50 PM
Hmm  :hmm:

Do you have a different modem/router that you could try, please? The one that you are currently using is either defective or has errors in the coding of the section that reports the SNRM values to the GUI.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 30, 2012, 04:26:33 PM
Hmm  :hmm:

Do you have a different modem/router that you could try, please? The one that you are currently using is either defective or has errors in the coding of the section that reports the SNRM values to the GUI.

I've got a Netgear DGN1000 which I could put on, but it'll probably be a day or 2 before I can do it.

If as you say the router (Billion 7300n) is defective, could there be a connection with whatever fault may be and the lost-carrier problem?
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on August 30, 2012, 05:16:21 PM
Quote
If as you say the router (Billion 7300n) is defective, could there be a connection with whatever fault may be and the lost-carrier problem?

Yes, there is that possibility. A swap-out, test and observe would be the way I would proceed.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on August 30, 2012, 06:06:08 PM
I'll certainly give it a try.
One other possibility is that on the 18th I updated the router with an upgrade from the Billion site.
The sync speed chart for 15/08 to today is below, together with one (very erratic) from 01/03.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Moomraker on September 01, 2012, 04:45:24 PM
Quick question. Does my modem have to be connected to the master socket?
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on September 01, 2012, 05:59:00 PM
Quick question. Does my modem have to be connected to the master socket?

Quick answer. Yes, er, no, er, maybe, er, I don't know.  ::)

Slightly longer answer. Welcome to the Kitz forum. To receive a sensible answer to your query, from either me or any other of the members, please start a thread of your own and describe your current wiring configuration, the type of Broadband service to which you subscribe, plus any other information that could help us to advise you.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 03, 2012, 10:52:06 AM
Hmm  :hmm:

Do you have a different modem/router that you could try, please? The one that you are currently using is either defective or has errors in the coding of the section that reports the SNRM values to the GUI.

I've got a Netgear DGN1000 which I could put on, but it'll probably be a day or 2 before I can do it.

If as you say the router (Billion 7300n) is defective, could there be a connection with whatever fault may be and the lost-carrier problem?

The Netgear is now up & running, with the stats below.

I'll run it for a few days to see what happens witht he lost-carrier etc.

Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on September 03, 2012, 05:21:03 PM
Even that Netgear appears to be reporting "peculiar" values.  :-\

US Line Attenuation and SNRM ?  :-X

[Subsequently edited to remove the incorrect word "Target".]
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 03, 2012, 07:01:58 PM


US Line Attenuation and Target SNRM ?  :-X

Sorry Burakkucat, you've lost me there :-[
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on September 03, 2012, 07:10:31 PM
The last two lines in the table (the image) you have uploaded, the right hand column of each --

Quote
                              DS          US
Line Attenuation  18.1 dB    0.0 dB
Noise Margin          3.0 dB    0.0 dB

I certainly would not expect to see "0.0 dB" reported on either of those two lines.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 03, 2012, 08:03:27 PM
Just had another look and they seem more realistic now?
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 03, 2012, 08:07:57 PM
Looks as if I might still have the "drop-out" etc problem.

19:59:18 - user request.Back at 20:00:03
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on September 03, 2012, 09:43:26 PM
Just had another look and they seem more realistic now?

Yes. Certainly the Line Attenuation values are of the order I would expect.

However the Signal to Noise Ratio Margin is still odd. DS 3.9 dB & US 30.1 dB ?  :-\
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on September 03, 2012, 09:48:05 PM
Looks as if I might still have the "drop-out" etc problem.

19:59:18 - user request.Back at 20:00:03

What exactly does the modem/router report? Is it a re-sync? Or a re-establishment of a PPPoA session?
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 03, 2012, 10:06:43 PM
Looks as if I might still have the "drop-out" etc problem.

19:59:18 - user request.Back at 20:00:03

What exactly does the modem/router report? Is it a re-sync? Or a re-establishment of a PPPoA session?

Sorry but you left me behind again.
If it's any help I've added ISPs sync record & recent router stats

Also, a lost carrier from 21:50:09 to 21:51:23
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on September 03, 2012, 10:22:15 PM
Ah, ISP sync record. I am not too sure what that is supposed to be showing. Of the four columns, I can see that the first three headings are Session, At Session Start and At Session End.

I deduce that the Session so referred to is the PPPoA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPPoA) session which your modem/router establishes with your ISP, thus giving you Internet access.

The sync speed is the established speed between the CPE and the DSLAM or MSAN. (That is to say your modem/router and the exchange equipment.)

So looking at that log, we see that the CPE and COE (central office equipment, i.e. the DSLAM or MSAN) remain in sync and are quite happy "talking to each other" but the PPPoA session terminates.

I wonder . . . do you have a setting for the modem which says "always on" or something similar? It could be, for some peculiar reason, that both of your modems have been misconfigured and thus terminate the PPPoA session after a time-out period, when there is no activity taking place.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 03, 2012, 11:07:31 PM
I wonder . . . do you have a setting for the modem which says "always on" or something similar? It could be, for some peculiar reason, that both of your modems have been misconfigured and thus terminate the PPPoA session after a time-out period, when there is no activity taking place.

The only thing I can find on the Netgear that might be relevant is in "basic settings" which has a section headed "Encapsulation" &
fields for login & password, followed by another field "Idle Timeout (In Minutes) with the facility to specify a time period, which is
at a default of 10 minutes. I imagine that this is probably what you are thinking of, as there is an onscreen guide which says
Idle Timeout

An idle Internet connection will be terminated after this time period.

If this value is zero (0), then the connection will be "kept alive" by re-connecting immediately whenever the connection is lost.


I'm going to set it to "0" & see what happens

Correction - "Encapsulation" relates to PPPoA etc, rather than the login etc.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: sheddyian on September 03, 2012, 11:17:59 PM
An idle Internet connection will be terminated after this time period.
If this value is zero (0), then the connection will be "kept alive" by re-connecting immediately whenever the connection is lost.


I'm going to set it to "0" & see what happens

Yes! Most definitely likely to reduce your disconnections.  :)

Wonder if those strange 0 values were because the session had timed out?

As a brief general aside here to anyone on the forum, why exactly would you want by default to have your session timing out after x minutes of inactivity anyway?  My own modem came configured like that.  ???

Are we talking traffic or connection management here?

Ian
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 03, 2012, 11:32:47 PM
The last two lines in the table (the image) you have uploaded, the right hand column of each --

Quote
                              DS          US
Line Attenuation  18.1 dB    0.0 dB
Noise Margin          3.0 dB    0.0 dB

I certainly would not expect to see "0.0 dB" reported on either of those two lines.

I've just been watching the poll interval in the stats, which is set to refresh every 10sec.

The US will come up as 0.0 & then on the next refresh as 9.5/32.0 (or thereabouts) & then back to 0 & keeps alternating. DS does
doe not change. If I reset the poll to 20 or 30sec then I don't get the 0 values.
A 15sec poll always shows 0.

Is there any significance in this?
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on September 03, 2012, 11:41:32 PM
. . . field "Idle Timeout (In Minutes) with the facility to specify a time period, which is
at a default of 10 minutes. I imagine that this is probably what you are thinking of, as there is an onscreen guide which says
Idle Timeout

An idle Internet connection will be terminated after this time period.

If this value is zero (0), then the connection will be "kept alive" by re-connecting immediately whenever the connection is lost.


I'm going to set it to "0" & see what happens

Yes! That's it. That parameter should be set to zero so that the PPPoA session remains permanently "alive".  :)
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 03, 2012, 11:43:19 PM
An idle Internet connection will be terminated after this time period.
If this value is zero (0), then the connection will be "kept alive" by re-connecting immediately whenever the connection is lost.


I'm going to set it to "0" & see what happens

Yes! Most definitely likely to reduce your disconnections.  :)

Wonder if those strange 0 values were because the session had timed out?

As a brief general aside here to anyone on the forum, why exactly would you want by default to have your session timing out after x minutes of inactivity anyway?  My own modem came configured like that.  ???

Are we talking traffic or connection management here?

Ian

Thanks for that Ian. However, the logs from my ISP often show dropouts at various time in the dead of night when there is no
activity through the router. The drop outs are very erratic, & the "up times" are very wide ranging, from a very few minutes to a few hours or more.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 03, 2012, 11:45:22 PM
. . . field "Idle Timeout (In Minutes) with the facility to specify a time period, which is
at a default of 10 minutes. I imagine that this is probably what you are thinking of, as there is an onscreen guide which says
Idle Timeout

An idle Internet connection will be terminated after this time period.

If this value is zero (0), then the connection will be "kept alive" by re-connecting immediately whenever the connection is lost.


I'm going to set it to "0" & see what happens

Yes! That's it. That parameter should be set to zero so that the PPPoA session remains permanently "alive".  :)

Thanks for the encouragement :). I'll give it a fair chance & then perhaps revert to the Billion router & see how that fares.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on September 03, 2012, 11:48:21 PM
I've just been watching the poll interval in the stats, which is set to refresh every 10sec.

The US will come up as 0.0 & then on the next refresh as 9.5/32.0 (or thereabouts) & then back to 0 & keeps alternating. DS does
doe not change. If I reset the poll to 20 or 30sec then I don't get the 0 values.
A 15sec poll always shows 0.

Is there any significance in this?

The only inference I can make is that there is some poor coding within the modem/router's firmware.  :-\

Let's assume 3.2 dB is the correct value. Perhaps the values on that line should be 3.0 dB and 3.2 dB (DS & US, respectively) . . .

I'm not too sure. I wonder what others think?
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bald_Eagle1 on September 04, 2012, 07:53:20 AM

The only inference I can make is that there is some poor coding within the modem/router's firmware.  :-\

Let's assume 3.2 dB is the correct value. Perhaps the values on that line should be 3.0 dB and 3.2 dB (DS & US, respectively) . . .


Didn't you see a similar issue via one of your modems, but regarding intermittently reported DS power levels, depending upon which ADSL mode was actually in use?
Again, possibly a poor coding matter.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 04, 2012, 11:00:11 AM
I've just had a look at the stats (still on Netgear) & on a 10sec refresh the "0" values are now not appearing & the data only vary slightly from 9.5/32 each time.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on September 04, 2012, 07:52:40 PM
What does concern me -- and here I would like to read other members opinions, please -- is that there is a DS SNRM of ~3 dB but an US SNRM of ~32 dB reported for your line.

I have never seen such a large difference between the reported DS and US SNRM values.  :no:  :-\
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 04, 2012, 08:41:28 PM
What does concern me -- and here I would like to read other members opinions, please -- is that there is a DS SNRM of ~3 dB but an US SNRM of ~32 dB reported for your line.

I have never seen such a large difference between the reported DS and US SNRM values.  :no:  :-\

I must say that, even with my very limited expertise of this sort of thing, it did seem to me to be rather high. However, it does seem to be working ok! :)
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: roseway on September 04, 2012, 08:48:42 PM
The upstream speed must be capped at 444 kbps, which would account for its very high SNRM. Your ISP can get it uncapped.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 04, 2012, 10:05:15 PM
The upstream speed must be capped at 444 kbps, which would account for its very high SNRM. Your ISP can get it uncapped.

My service is run at 24mbps & 448kbps, which seems to be their policy, as all 6 of their options on ADSL are set at this. ( http://www.icukhosting.co.uk/broadband/home_adsl.asp )

I can't help but think that they may be disinclined to remove or move the cap, as it seems to be their standard.
Is there anything disadvantageous in having such a high SNRM?



Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: roseway on September 04, 2012, 10:33:33 PM
No disadvantage at all, apart from the fact that you could have a much higher upstream speed if it weren't capped.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 04, 2012, 11:32:31 PM
No disadvantage at all, apart from the fact that you could have a much higher upstream speed if it weren't capped.

I've never seen or found it to be a problem having a comparatively slow speed, so far anyway.

Thank you for improving my somewhat scant knowledge of the how things work.


Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: sheddyian on September 05, 2012, 11:05:05 AM
I've never seen or found it to be a problem having a comparatively slow speed, so far anyway.

If you're uploading photos to an online album, or uploading a YouTube video, or sending emails with large attachments, having a higher upload speed will be a noticeable boon! 

In theory you could double your current upload speed.

Ian
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 05, 2012, 03:50:20 PM
Thanks for the thoughts Ian, but I'm extremely averse to putting anything remotely private somewhere where it might be accessible to all & sundry. (paranoid!! moi??). The only things I am likely to upload are spreadsheets  under 1meg of census data (currently for Grimsby in 1871 :( ::) :blush: ), and the occasional batch of jokes via email.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 14, 2012, 08:35:29 PM
I've had my Netgear router running for about a week without any further problems with "drop-outs" after setting the "idle timeout" to 0 so I guess you were spot on Burakkucat :) . I'm now on my back on my Billion which is set to "connection always on" & idle timeout at 0 & all has going well for a couple of days.

Thanks to all of you for your help

Bayardo
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on September 14, 2012, 09:52:03 PM
Excellent. That reads as a job well done.

Thank you for updating us with the current situation.  :)
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 17, 2012, 10:59:59 AM
Did I speak a bit too soon?

I've just checked my logs to find that there have been 2 drop-outs since I put the Billion back on.
One (lost-carrier) at 04:21 today after 25 minutes short of 2 days uninterrupted connection, and another (port-error)
at 04:47 on the 15th after 1day 15 hours continuous.

It's not a problem as I'm horizontal at that time, but it does seem a bit odd.
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: burakkucat on September 18, 2012, 01:11:58 AM
Quote
One (lost-carrier) at 04:21 today

I'll assume that was a loss of Sync event. It could, of course, have been caused by overnight engineering work.  :-\

Quote
another (port-error) at 04:47

That is a peculiar one.  ???
Title: Re: Fitting ADSL Plate
Post by: Bayardo on September 18, 2012, 08:24:35 AM
I've just checked my logs and there was no drop-out last night. It shows as being up for 28hrs so far.