Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: Xup on August 02, 2016, 09:15:40 PM

Title: PlusNet's new network
Post by: Xup on August 02, 2016, 09:15:40 PM
Just wondering if there are others on here that are on the new PlusNet  network.
If you are can you say what your connection has been like over the last 3 weeks.

I had a good connection up till 3 weeks ago and have been on the new network for month's, now many others on the new network like myself are getting very bad packet loss during peak times. (IP's starting 51)

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fping%2Fshare-thumb%2F5ceff7b3a688881312c7a83a5fbd493d-02-08-2016.png&hash=7350180654030ee52e5a02469a89f7fd417607e6) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/5ceff7b3a688881312c7a83a5fbd493d-02-08-2016.html)

Cheers


Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: renluop on August 02, 2016, 10:43:27 PM
There do seem to be problems with 51 series IP addresses, as in this from PN
https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/DNS-Routing-issues-for-the-last-36-hours/m-p/1349364/highlight/true#M41502
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: roseway on August 02, 2016, 10:47:50 PM
I've got a 51.xxx IP address, and everything is working normally. But I don't use PN's DNS servers, and that seems to be the real issue.
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: Chrysalis on August 02, 2016, 10:56:38 PM
I dont know what the issue is but it wont be dns servers, as the tbb pings wont be affected by plusnet's dns servers.
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: jelv on August 02, 2016, 11:06:31 PM
I don't know if I've been moved to the new network yet - but tonight's speeds have been crap (tried three different gateways). This is typical:

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fspeedtest%2Fbutton%2F147017294305207756261.png&hash=24ec2fc0f53ef8fa1b9fe3d2ea3bc0da0e4f6c9a) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=147017294305207756261)

Last couple of days I've had issues with sound quality of incoming calls on VoIP.
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: renluop on August 03, 2016, 08:34:17 AM
@jelv FWIW This is my trace to BBC.
Code: [Select]
Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.10586]
(c) 2015 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\...>tracert bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.22]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  home.gateway.home.gateway [192.168.1.254]
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3     *       12 ms    12 ms  137.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.137]
  4   112 ms    13 ms    12 ms  be3-3104.psb-ir01.plus.net [195.166.143.136]
  5    13 ms    16 ms    14 ms  core1-BE1.southbank.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.125.130]
  6    13 ms    15 ms    12 ms  62.172.103.193
  7    14 ms    13 ms    12 ms  195.99.126.101
  8     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  9     *
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: jelv on August 03, 2016, 12:50:38 PM
I'm on a fixed IP which I believe means I will not see a change to my tracert.
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: tbailey2 on August 03, 2016, 01:01:23 PM
Likewise but my Plusnet gateway will change if I resync....
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: Xup on August 03, 2016, 01:18:50 PM
Cheers for the reply's guys.

PlusNet are in denial as usual, one other unhelpful thing with the new network Is you cant gateway hop :(.
I'm not on a fixed IP but if I try to gateway hop I stay on the same IP nearly just the last 3 digits change in say a 50 range .

Given up with them, every night the same problem for a lot of users on the new network, have jumped ship to BT, will bet the problem just disappear when on BT.

Sorry for late replying to the thread, got lost in the big Windows 10 new Anniversary update.

Cheers
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: Chrysalis on August 03, 2016, 01:21:14 PM
yeah I read that thread, I suppose its like the problem that existed last year.  They will keep publicly denying the problem with the BT group's policy that its better PR to appear incompetent and not acknowledge issues instead of telling people they working on it.  But in private they will acknowledge the problem, and one day the problem will be resolved as if by magic whilst the denial will continue and they will pretend the fix is coincidental.

This is what happened when they moved to the dedicated WBC platform, they pretended it was nothing to do with the shared WBC overload, and it was pure coincidence the move happened at that time.

Sadly it does look like BT group seem to follow VM's guidelines on network capacity management in that they will provide enough capacity for what they consider to "just be enough" known as running things hot, then in situations where they misjudged capacity requirements this sort of thing happens.  Whilst sky build their network so that peak utilisation is under 50%.  Meaning if there is unexpected growth in demand or spikes for things like ios updates the network can handle it.  Two different approach's.

Plusnet will remove the bottleneck I am sure, but since they wont acknowledge the problem it means they wont report when it will happen and you just have to wait for it or change isp.
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: Ronski on August 03, 2016, 03:50:29 PM
I've had a small amount of packet loss on my home connection for some time now, seems to be a constant red line along thd top of the graph. Works connection is fine, no red at all.
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: kitz on August 03, 2016, 04:02:59 PM
TBH Im just theorising here so dont take this as gospel...  but Im wondering if perhaps its one of the MSILs.

When on the new network, unless you have a static IP, then the IP is dished out from a local pool close to the MSE bRAS.   Plusnet will have had to give a list of IPs that can be dished out and so it follows that they will all be in the same range and of similar number.

Therefore those with a specific range are all likely to be very close regionally with each other.   I'd suspect that picking up on an IP range is likely to indicate that they may all be going through part of the same BTw backhaul or a particular MSIL.   
Whatever way -  if problems are being seen in a similar range of IPs then its highly likely to be something regional specific. 

---
PS not seeing the issues here.  Im going through Preston MSIL.
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: Xup on August 03, 2016, 04:46:41 PM
Seems the only fix for people at the moment is to pay for a fixed IP, but this I think only sorts out the problem by them then being put back on the old network.

Kits, you could well be right/on to something there, in 20 + hopping attempts my IP stays in the  51.7.117.138 to 220 range.


Live graph for tonight's connection

Edit to change graph to snapshot, going to try powering down for a couple of hours!

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fping%2Fshare-thumb%2Fc65c1313ef8e4afdc3d18cf274a6556f-03-08-2016.png&hash=c49605e4cb8487bffedd95c4c67d0a3aa10ef13c) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/c65c1313ef8e4afdc3d18cf274a6556f-03-08-2016.html)
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: kitz on August 03, 2016, 05:01:10 PM
Quote
Kits, you could well be right/on to something there,  in 20 + hoping attempts my IP stays in the  51.7.117.138 to 220 range.

Yup it will.   I was using a dynamic IP for a short while whilst testing something else and the range was very close no matter how much I tried to pick up a new IP.  Found out later that they were being dished out at the MSE bRAS in the next town... or rather at my headend exchange.   
Which is great when one (or more) of those people using the same pool dont mind displaying their location to all and sundry and you happen to pick up their discarded IP next.  :mad:

Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: Chrysalis on August 03, 2016, 07:21:13 PM
That packet loss is horrific, someone has balls'ed up big time to allow that to develop.
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: Ronski on August 03, 2016, 08:50:25 PM
This is my home one, on a 212.159.x.x fixed IP

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fping%2Fshare-thumb%2F2af33541f56fd89eb842dfdf5366b408-03-08-2016.png&hash=b4648b5c606a2da35dfb34e5ee2f9cdcb1a938ab)

Our works which is on an 86.229.x.x fixed IP is clear

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fping%2Fshare-thumb%2Fc565a6a23d55a36cf528e062cd877379-03-08-2016.png&hash=0caad2ab9d71bc308d7cdfeb13830c065cb67d8d)

My home packet loss started after a resync on 30 July

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fping%2Fshare-thumb%2Fcd48a5d97b6177180020b1c97179a92c-30-07-2016.png&hash=d90e2e14b56adafd78b11d62f9b936ce83706807)
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: burakkucat on August 03, 2016, 09:13:14 PM
Quote from: Ronski on August 03, 2016, 08:50:25 PM
My home packet loss started after a resync on 30 July

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fping%2Fshare-thumb%2Fcd48a5d97b6177180020b1c97179a92c-30-07-2016.png&hash=d90e2e14b56adafd78b11d62f9b936ce83706807)

It appears to coincide with a reduction in the minimum latency, from 20 ms to ~10 ms. Very odd.  ???
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: jelv on August 03, 2016, 11:58:54 PM
Quote from: Xup on August 03, 2016, 04:46:41 PM
Seems the only fix for people at the moment is to pay for a fixed IP, but this I think only sorts out the problem by them then being put back on the old network.

I don't believe that is true. Fixed IPs will still go through the new network but are tunnelled through to the gateways. That means those on fixed IPs can't tell if they've been moved to the new network.
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: Ronski on August 04, 2016, 05:24:29 AM
Quote from: burakkucat on August 03, 2016, 09:13:14 PM
It appears to coincide with a reduction in the minimum latency, from 20 ms to ~10 ms. Very odd.  ???

Interleavig was removed from my line, whether that has any bearing on the packet loss I don't know, I  don't think there is that many errors.
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: Xup on August 04, 2016, 09:45:51 PM
Adding tonight's graph, connection is getting worse :(

Jelv,  where does it say your connected to on the gateway checker. http://usertools.plus.net/@gateway

I'm connected to(the one I get the problems with!. core2-hu0-18-0-0.southbank.ukcore.bt.net (62.172.103.24)
Used to be connected to something like "Point of presence core" and had no problems when connected through there.

(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thinkbroadband.com%2Fping%2Fshare-thumb%2Fe43f1bbc21fc6b8c88a400a90189489e.png&hash=87bc11e87096915d5ec9b6d92a29f0f47ba4da38) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/e43f1bbc21fc6b8c88a400a90189489e.html)
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: Chrysalis on August 05, 2016, 02:03:08 AM
did plusnet really close that thread?
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: jelv on August 05, 2016, 07:40:17 AM
@Xup

It looks the same as it always has:

Quote
You are currently connected to gateway ptw-ag02.
This is located in Telehouse West.

and tracert is still the same:

C:\Users\John>tracert ntp.plus.net

Tracing route to ntp.plus.net [212.159.13.49]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  TG582 [192.168.1.254]
  2    12 ms    11 ms    20 ms  lo0-central10.ptw-ag02.plus.net [195.166.128.196]
  3    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  link-a-central10.ptw-gw01.plus.net [212.159.2.148]
  4    11 ms    11 ms    13 ms  xe-0-2-0.ptw-cr01.plus.net [212.159.0.248]
  5    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  ae2.ptw-cr02.plus.net [195.166.129.5]
  6    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  po2.ptw-gw02.plus.net [195.166.129.39]
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  cdns01.plus.net [212.159.13.49]

Trace complete.
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: Xup on August 05, 2016, 08:53:30 AM
@ Jelv, that looks like I used to be on' the old network when I could gate hop, like the old BNG that had the congestion issues.

Yes, they closed the thread, claiming the problems are fixed ?.

Another thread here. https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/High-packet-loss-and-other-DNS-issues/td-p/1354749

Change over to BT on Monday so not long now :)
Title: Re: PlusNet's new network
Post by: kitz on August 05, 2016, 11:11:16 AM
Quote from: jelv on August 03, 2016, 11:58:54 PM
I don't believe that is true. Fixed IPs will still go through the new network but are tunnelled through to the gateways. That means those on fixed IPs can't tell if they've been moved to the new network.

Yup correct.

I could be wrong because it was a few weeks ago that I read that thread after it first started and Im not about to read through it all again, but didnt someone get a static IP only to find a couple of nights later the problem returned.