Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: manvadher on March 05, 2011, 05:50:27 PM
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Hi all.
I have previously looked at this website and tried to use the guides and infos in order to increase the speed of my connection, however, it seems that the fastest it will connect at (ever) has been 3mb and most of the time 2.5mb. Based on what ive read and seen, i believe it should be much faster than this, somewhere around 8mb+
Please let me know what your thoughts are.
Heres a low down of the equipment
Router - Netgear DG834G
Not connected to master socket, but has iplate fitted
Exchange information from Kitz
Distance:- Direct: 954 metres
(appx)* By Road: 2.57 km
Status
ADSL enabled: March 30, 2000
DSL Max enabled: March 30, 2006
SDSL enabled : Enabled
21CN due : (PSTN) N/A
21CN WBC (Broadband) Enabled 09.11.08
Broadband Access† Market 3
Connection information
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 3104 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 35 db 10.5 db
Noise Margin 14 db 24 db
BT Profile page info
Download speedachieved during the test was - 2594 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 1200-4000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :3104 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2500 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 20.19:19.41:60.41 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.
>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 358 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 448 Kbp
Thanks
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Hi and welcome,
Yes, you're right, with an attenuation of 35 dB your connection speed is much lower than it should be. There are numerous possible reasons for that, but one thing I particularly note is that your noise margin is 14 dB. This suggests that your connection is possibly unstable, and BT's DLM process has increased your target noise margin to try to stabilise it.
As you've read the guides and done your best to make your own setup as good as possible, it's likely that the cause of the problem is external, either external interference or possibly a line fault.
The most useful tool for diagnosing this sort of problem is Routerstats (http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm) and I suggest that you download and install this utility to monitor your noise margin over time. If you could copy a few hours worth of the noise margin graph here, it would help us to see what's happening.
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I hope Roseway won't mind if I add just one comment here...
Not connected to master socket, but has iplate fitted
An iPlate has virtually the same effect as cutting the bell-wire at the master socket, which optimises the internal wiring in most cases. However, there are various other internal wiring defects, that may not be apparent, and which won't be 'cured' by an iPlate. Have you tried removing the iPlate and all extensions, with the router & filter plugged directly into the BT test socket (inside the master socket) to see if it has any dramatic effect upon either connection speed or noise margin?
I'm not suggesting you leave it that way for any length of time as your phones will all be disconnected, but it's worth trying just for a few minutes to discount internal wiring faults... If you've already tried it then ignore these comments and, as Roseway suggests, give RS a try.
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Yup, Mr Muddle has hit the nail on the head. :)
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Thanks for the tips - I did connect it to the master socket, but cant remember how long for or if the figures became better.
Will plug it back into the test socket and post some updates (wont post until next weekend now :()
but also ordered some new filters as the ones i have a very very old and been battered by a fair amount of household renovations.
Will post soon! thanks once again
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Does it take time to stabilize?
plugged it into the master socket and see below.
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1600 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 33 db 10.5 db
Noise Margin 15 db 24 db
bad line? If so, we did have a BT engineer come out to us once to check if it was ok, but they mentioned that the speeds your are getting are acceptable.
so based on the test we have done, im correct to say we have ruled out internal wiring issues
and given the stats and line distance, i should be expecting a fast speed. but i cant due to a poor line?
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Hi ManVadHer,
It will take some time for the IP profile to increase. If you enter your attenuation here:-
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php
You'll see the speeds which should be possible as shown in the picture below.
Kind regards,
Walter
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Thanks Walter - but given that i have just moved the router to the test socket, the line stats have not improved which in my mind rules out any bad internal wiring issues. This leads me to believe that the line externally is bad.
Not currently concerned with fixing the IP Profile if the line is bad then it will never be able to sync at higher rates and will lead to unstable connections.
So i guess my question is - Should i call bt and have them replace / investigate and be safe that i wont be charged £150 for a call out fee?
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i have just moved the router to the test socket, the line stats have not improved which in my mind rules out any bad internal wiring issues. This leads me to believe that the line externally is bad.
Not 100% certain because there is the router and the cable connecting the router to the test socket and of course the microfilter....all of these could produce a fault.
But realistically the chances are low and it's reasonable to assume that the problem is external to your property.
Your next problem is getting your ISP to acknowledge that and call out BT.
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In addition to what Oranged said, there is one other possible proviso. In some cases, extension sockets are wired up incorrectly, connecting them to the back of the master socket instead of the faceplate where they should be connected. So, just make sure that, when the faceplate is removed, there are no cables going into the back of the socket apart from the incoming BT cable.
If that's in order, then yes, the problem is most probably external. I still suggest that you install Routerstats and gather some more data before calling for a BT visit, so that your case is as strong as possible.
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Hi
quote Connection Speed 1600 kbps 448 kbps
That's weird ,worse than before ,very suspicious ,make sure that all your cables and router are OK . Was there much time difference between these 2 sets of stats?
regards Jeff
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Agreed - I noticed that when i connected to the test socket, it dropped the speed massively. Restarted the router and it was connected back up at 2800 or something and back in its old location under the stairs, 3100.
Placed an order for 3 filters and a new cable from the router to the filter, so hopefully that will also be ruled out when they come
Will try to get routerstat installed and monitoring the figures.
When i opened the master socket up, there was nothing interfering with the test socket. there was from the faceplate part going back inside, which goes under the stairs where the phone line is distributed to the rest of the house.
Installing routerstat now!
My provider is BT (Total Broadband with BT Vision)
Will provide Routerstat info, thanks once again
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Just to add one more to Eric's note:-
... and that there are no other connection boxes either inside or outside the house with additional cables going elsewhere.
K R
Walter
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Hi
Normally you would expect a better synch from the test socket if there was something wrong with your internal wiring.Having a worse connection ,this needs to be understood before calling in Bt ,as it might cost you .
Regards Jeff
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Having a worse connection ,this needs to be understood before calling in Bt ,as it might cost you .
Agreed............it may well indicate a router or cable or filter fault.
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ok, filters have arrived and fitted at all sockets using a telephone device and on the router as well
noise varies from 12-15 - Should this figure not be steady?
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg864.imageshack.us%2Fimg864%2F7620%2F120311.jpg&hash=4620d86bda0e4b23e410d3853f3d184b5c44abba) (http://img864.imageshack.us/i/120311.jpg/)
still waiting for the package to come with the cable. Think the next step will be to wait for the cable, move it to test socket with BOTH new filters and cable and see what happens.
oh joy.
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the only time I've seen a snrm trace wobble about that much was when I had a line/line card fault...and as in your case, it wasn't so much that it didn't work, more a case of drastic under-performance.
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Hi ManVadHer,
I don't think anybody has mentioned attempting phone calls whilst observing the RS traces.
You could try the 17070 option 1 ringback and option 2 quiet line tests or just ring the line from a mobile etc.
If there's any form of high resistance fault that might give you a clue.
Kind regards,
Walter
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good point - I just gave both options a quick try.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg801.imageshack.us%2Fimg801%2F4639%2F120311pm.jpg&hash=c15c21765f6f25be88e332d57e55586e8b4ce391) (http://img801.imageshack.us/i/120311pm.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
First box is me calling from a mobile
Second box is the quiet line test.
I was under the impression that both should have produced similar results, however thats not the case. Interference of some sort?
Thinking of trying the DGTeam firmware if that yields any improvements
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I had this but was even worse looking on both upstream and downstream snr
After 4 lift and shifts the downstream is ok but my upstream still suffers from around 9am to bang on 15:25
If i make a phone call between that time then the upstream snr drops right down to 2 from 11 then after 15:25 goes right upto 15 and no more drops when phone is in use
I have been told my Exchange has really old equipment installed and out of the 4 lift and shifts 3 of the ports gave out sever errors
My only step if it gets worse is to move to one of the LLU providers
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Hi again ManVadHer,
Unless somebody corrects me, I believe there is more electrical energy supplied to the line during the ringing period rather then just taking the line off hook.
That would suggest to me that there is a poor (intermittent high resistance) connection somewhere.
Perhaps you should ask the next Openreach engineer if you have any of the dreaded aluminium in your line ?
However even corroded copper connections perhaps in a damp joint can also cause these problems.
Kind regards,
Walter
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the last component of all things new has come in. Fitted the new RJ11 cable in and will see what happens.
Also tried the BT HH that was provided ages go and that too connected at the same speed but didnt leave it plugged in for long as it was a nightmare to setup.
Will report more over the weekend
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I was looking around and ive done something to my modem....
i telnetted into the thing, on the back of other posts i saw
typed
echo 0x3 > /proc/sys/dev/dslmod
and then
echo modulation GDMT > /proc/ticfg/env
The router still works, but each time i have to telnet in and type in the below to make it work
echo 0x3 > /proc/sys/dev/dslmod
a firmware reload of the current version didnt fix it, so if anyone has any ideas how to get it back to normal that would be great. If not, im going to try reset switch on the back, and then the netgear recovery utility.
None of the modes made it modem sync better or with less noise :(
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Oops. Perhaps not a wise move. :no:
Which version Netgear DG834G do you have? You can find the information right at the top of the first page, when connecting via the default URL.
For mine, I see --
Router Status
Account Name DG834Gv5
Firmware Version V6.00.25
Which, if I'm reading it correctly, tells me that it is Version 5.
Maybe a power cycle, followed by a factory reset will help . . .
What bothers me somewhat is that you've typed --
a firmware reload of the current version didnt fix it
Are you sure the firmware reload actually took place?
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Modem back to normal now - it was on Multimode as per default and the line
echo modulation MMODE > /proc/ticfg/env
reverts it back to that.
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Modem back to normal now - it was on Multimode as per default and the line
echo modulation MMODE > /proc/ticfg/env
reverts it back to that.
So all is well with the router / modem, once again. :fingers:
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back to the poor speed problem now!
Pulled some stats from the router and wanted someone to have a look at something - Its basically errors on the data received. They dont look excessive to me, but would like some info. Think i might give BT a call soon.
(still connected to the test socket!)
AR7 DSL Modem Statistics:
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[DSL Modem Stats]
US Connection Rate: 448 DS Connection Rate: 3264
DS Line Attenuation: 34 DS Margin: 11
US Line Attenuation: 21 US Margin: 25
US Payload : 13052448 DS Payload: 96788592
US Superframe Cnt : 265410 DS Superframe Cnt: 265410
US Transmit Power : 0 DS Transmit Power: 0
LOS errors: 0 SEF errors: 0
Errored Seconds: 0 Severely Err Secs: 0
Frame mode: 3 Max Frame mode: 0
Trained Path: 1 US Peak Cell Rate: 1056
Trained Mode: 3 Selected Mode: 1
ATUC Vendor Code: 4946544E ATUC Revision: 1
Hybrid Selected: 1 Trellis: 1
Showtime Count: 1 DS Max Attainable Bit Rate: 3264 kbps
BitSwap: 1 US Max Attainable Bit Rate: n/a
Annex: AnxA psd_mask_qualifier: 0x0000
Power Management Status: L0 DS HLINSC: 0
US ACTPSD: -345 DS ACTPSD: -358
Total init. errors: 1 Total init. timeouts: 0
Showtime init. errors: 0 Showtime init. timeouts: 0
Last showtime init. errors: 1 Last showtime init. timeouts: 0
ATUC ghsVid: b5 00 49 46 54 4e 71 be
T1413Vid: 00 00 T1413Rev: 00 VendorRev: 00
ATUR ghsVid: b5 00 54 53 54 43 00 00
T1413Vid: 00 00 T1413Rev: 00 VendorRev: 00
[Upstream (TX) Interleave path]
CRC: 0 FEC: 0 NCD: 0
LCD: 0 HEC: 0
[Downstream (RX) Interleave path]
CRC: 41 FEC: 5253 NCD: 0
LCD: 0 HEC: 0
[Upstream (TX) Fast path]
CRC: 0 FEC: 0 NCD: 1
LCD: 0 HEC: 0
[Downstream (RX) Fast path]
CRC: 0 FEC: 0 NCD: 0
LCD: 0 HEC: 0
[ATM Stats]
[Upstream/TX]
Good Cell Cnt: 271926
Idle Cell Cnt: 4495438
Tx Packets Dropped Count: 0
Tx Bad Packets Count: 0
[Downstream/RX)]
Good Cell Cnt: 2016429
Idle Cell Cnt: 32716947
Bad Hec Cell Cnt: 209
Overflow Dropped Cell Cnt: 0
Rx Packets Dropped Count: 0
Rx Bad Packets Count: 0
[SAR AAL5 Stats]
Tx PDU's: 55471
Rx PDU's: 82212
Tx Total Bytes: 10314819
Rx Total Bytes: 93724303
Tx Total Error Counts: 0
Rx Total Error Counts: 2
[OAM Stats]
Near End F5 Loop Back Count: 0
Near End F4 Loop Back Count: 0
Far End F5 Loop Back Count: 0
Far End F4 Loop Back Count: 0
SAR OAM Ping Response Drop Count=0
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Hi
You still have low synch rate :)
quote
(still connected to the test socket!)
AR7 DSL Modem Statistics:
--------------------------------
[DSL Modem Stats]
US Connection Rate: 448 DS Connection Rate: 3264
When looking at stats it is important to have the UP time so that errors can be related to time . I think your last stats uptime was about 75 minutes . They do not look to bad . Looking at your RS graphs they look completely different .,in that the first one (12 march) was very spiky for about half an hour , then 3 and a half hours later it was nice and quiet until you used the phone .Did you reboot during that period ?.
Can you run RS for a longer period say 12hrs on one page to get a feel for what is happening . This last lot of stats show a lower SNR margin of
11db is that what it was when you rebooted /connected or has it dropped to this level?
Regards Jeff
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called BT support - They mentioned im on an adsl2 line, which supports only 8mb, but i can only get 3.5mb...
they did a line test -all fine. they are going to do further "detailed" tests which take up to 4 hours and get back to me
Lets see what happens
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Hi
quote They mentioned im on an adsl2 line
That seems odd , adsl2 would only mean that there was a possibility of having a top DS synch of 12000Kbps . didn't know they were providing that package .The exchange is showing the normal implementation for dsl max
quote DSL Max enabled: March 30, 2006
Regards Jeff
edit ADSL(1&2) has a maximum available 223 downstream subchannels. 223 x 56kbps = 12Mbps.
Read more: http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adsl_technology.htm#ixzz1H4fG9EZ2
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About the wobbly graph at the top of the page - I used to get wobbles like that with my old DG834v2 (AR7 chipset). Admittedly on ADSL2+ rather than ADSL2. When I changed to ST546v6 (Broadcom) the wobbles largely went away. http://pgg999.co.uk/stats/st546.html - you can see in mid June 2009 the effects of the changeover. It might be interesting if you could borrow a different modem to compare.
Cheers,
Peter
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Looks like my last chat with BT have got them to do something. I told them that my modem stays connected for over two weeks at a time and that the SNR is at a level of 15db most of the time.
I asked if they could "reset" the information and see what happens. SNR is now between 5-7 much better and also its now sync'd at 4384. Profiles still at 2500, but thats going to take some time to increase
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg546.imageshack.us%2Fimg546%2F1724%2F200311pm.jpg&hash=f90eba2915efc9852000bea05914705fe9eb3e13) (http://img546.imageshack.us/i/200311pm.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Getting there!
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After a few called to BT Broadband people they sent an engineer who came over and changed the master socket to a new style that includes an ADSL Filter in the front plate.
In addition, he checked a few things between the exchange to green box, green box to pole, pole to house. they changed the the pair from the exchange to the green box. this was yesterday in the afternoon. since then, there's been no improvement of speed / bt profile or snr levels (still hoover from 5-7).
They mentioned that they may look to change the wire from the pole to the house - which i am inclined to go for (as i have no clue how old that cable could be)
Line stats look nasty now since BT have allowed my SNR to drop to 5-7, do the below errors seem very high? uptime is 18 hours
AR7 DSL Modem Statistics:
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[DSL Modem Stats]
US Connection Rate: 448 DS Connection Rate: 3680
DS Line Attenuation: 34 DS Margin: 7
US Line Attenuation: 21 US Margin: 25
US Payload : 43264416 DS Payload: 707860656
US Superframe Cnt : 3823553 DS Superframe Cnt: 3823554
US Transmit Power : 0 DS Transmit Power: 0
LOS errors: 0 SEF errors: 0
Errored Seconds: 0 Severely Err Secs: 0
Frame mode: 3 Max Frame mode: 0
Trained Path: 1 US Peak Cell Rate: 1056
Trained Mode: 3 Selected Mode: 1
ATUC Vendor Code: 4946544E ATUC Revision: 1
Hybrid Selected: 1 Trellis: 1
Showtime Count: 1 DS Max Attainable Bit Rate: 3680 kbps
BitSwap: 1 US Max Attainable Bit Rate: n/a
Annex: AnxA psd_mask_qualifier: 0x0000
Power Management Status: L0 DS HLINSC: 0
US ACTPSD: -345 DS ACTPSD: -358
Total init. errors: 1 Total init. timeouts: 0
Showtime init. errors: 0 Showtime init. timeouts: 0
Last showtime init. errors: 1 Last showtime init. timeouts: 0
ATUC ghsVid: b5 00 49 46 54 4e 71 be
T1413Vid: 00 00 T1413Rev: 00 VendorRev: 00
ATUR ghsVid: b5 00 54 53 54 43 00 00
T1413Vid: 00 00 T1413Rev: 00 VendorRev: 00
[Upstream (TX) Interleave path]
CRC: 43 FEC: 5304 NCD: 0
LCD: 0 HEC: 68
[Downstream (RX) Interleave path]
CRC: 24520 FEC: 8159459 NCD: 0
LCD: 0 HEC: 0
[Upstream (TX) Fast path]
CRC: 0 FEC: 0 NCD: 1
LCD: 0 HEC: 0
[Downstream (RX) Fast path]
CRC: 0 FEC: 0 NCD: 0
LCD: 0 HEC: 0
[ATM Stats]
[Upstream/TX]
Good Cell Cnt: 901342
Idle Cell Cnt: 67778326
Tx Packets Dropped Count: 0
Tx Bad Packets Count: 0
[Downstream/RX)]
Good Cell Cnt: 14747097
Idle Cell Cnt: 549176162
Bad Hec Cell Cnt: 229493
Overflow Dropped Cell Cnt: 0
Rx Packets Dropped Count: 0
Rx Bad Packets Count: 0
[SAR AAL5 Stats]
Tx PDU's: 308841
Rx PDU's: 517581
Tx Total Bytes: 27873347
Rx Total Bytes: 686889352
Tx Total Error Counts: 0
Rx Total Error Counts: 47
[OAM Stats]
Near End F5 Loop Back Count: 0
Near End F4 Loop Back Count: 0
Far End F5 Loop Back Count: 0
Far End F4 Loop Back Count: 0
SAR OAM Ping Response Drop Count=0