Kitz Forum
Computers & Hardware => Apple Related => Topic started by: sevenlayermuddle on January 28, 2015, 09:41:34 AM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31012410
Apple posts the biggest quarterly profit in history
Yes I know some here really like Apple products, I do, some don't.
Personally my only regret is, over the past few years when buying all these iPods, iPads and iPhones, not to mention the Mac, maybe I should also have bought some company shares. ::)
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There is no doubting the quality of their products but in the case of many young people they want an Apple product because....well its Apple isn't it,they don't think about what they can do or even if there is something just as good on the market.They simply want Apple ipods/Ipads/Mac books etc because its cool to have have them..
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I heard that on the news this am. I was only half listening but I think they said it was mostly down to profits from the iphone and that the ipad had taken a small decrease of sales?
I agree that it does seem to be super trendy and a must have to have an i-phone.
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I'm with 7LM when it comes to Apple products ..... the quality and design of their products is class. I too wish I'd bought shares as we own 2 i-Phones, and i-Pad, an i-Pod, and an i-Mac.
I'm too old to be 'trending', and the only reason we bought Apple was because of it's quality and design. Glad the company is doing well. :)
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As Kitz suggests, the boom seems to be iPhones rather than iPads. Plus good inroads in China.
Have to say though, it's a good job they haven't put me in charge of marketing, as I don't like big phones, and would have vetoed development of the 6 and 6 plus. I like to keep my phone in a shirt pocket, and anything bigger than an iPhone 5 just doesn't fit. But clearly, Apple's judgement that I am untypical would seem to be justified :D
Even for me though, big advantage of the iPhone 6 was the discounting of iPhone 5C, hence why I at last have an affordable PAYG iPhone. Georgeous and perfect, like everything else I have bought from them, the 5C Quickly became 'My Precious'. Don't buy a 5C if you need massive amounts of storage, but I don't.
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Personally I'd never touch an Apple product. I was given a 2009 macbook and the hardware quality is atrocious. Apple computers lost their only good point when they switched to Intel processors. In my opinion Apple is the greatest marketing company in the world; They can produce a product that's inferior to almost every competitor, costs 3x as much as every competitor, and still sell millions more than every competitor.
Something to think about: The basic ipad costs £400 to buy. It costs Apple £170 to make. That's £230 profit on every single unit, before you include warranties, accessories, and apps.
Phone wise I have a Oneplus One. Costs a fraction of the price of the iphone, the hardware is superior to the iphone, and it does everything I want without restricting me to what the Apple overlords say I can use their product for.
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It's an overly done debate with no 'Winners', just opinions. I've said it before, and I'll say it again ...... the best move I ever made was switching from my update-hungry, no scratch that .............. update ravenous ....... whirring fan, slow to boot, inferior sound/picture quality, with additional space needed for the tower and routing of cables ...... Microsoft PC to my beautifully quiet, switch on and ready to go, space saving, one update a month ...... gorgeous i-Mac.
I'm the consumer, and I'm not particularly bothered about the hardware, software, whether certain obscure stuff works with it or not. I use my i-Mac a lot, just as I did my previous desktop PC, and for what I use it for Apple beats the rest into a cocked-hat.
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Personally I'd never touch an Apple product. I was given a 2009 macbook and the hardware quality is atrocious. Apple computers lost their only good point when they switched to Intel processors. In my opinion Apple is the greatest marketing company in the world; They can produce a product that's inferior to almost every competitor, costs 3x as much as every competitor, and still sell millions more than every competitor.
Something to think about: The basic ipad costs £400 to buy. It costs Apple £170 to make. That's £230 profit on every single unit, before you include warranties, accessories, and apps.
Phone wise I have a Oneplus One. Costs a fraction of the price of the iphone, the hardware is superior to the iphone, and it does everything I want without restricting me to what the Apple overlords say I can use their product for.
100% agree with this. Why is it that Apple also seem to be the one company I regularly see in the news filing a lawsuit against another company...
I also recently saw in the news, other than this supposed hidden spy app embedded in the iOS, that Apple bought the company which was going to be doing the fingerprint scanner for the Google Nexus 6. Dirty tactics indeed :-\.
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100% agree with this. Why is it that Apple also seem to be the one company I regularly see in the news filing a lawsuit against another company...
Apple's modus operandi in recent years has been to copy stuff, patent it, and then sue the pants off of everyone else including the person/company that originally came up with the idea. And they cry foul when someone challenges them on it. A vast amount of Apple's patents are for things that shouldn't be patentable.
the names IOS and iphone were trademarked (by Cisco) and in use way before Apple came up with them. iphone was a voip telephone, IOS is the operating system that runs on Cisco routers.
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Every time I GOOGLE ..... the difference between .......... it seems to be split down the middle as to which is best. All I can say is that having used BOTH OS's, it's a no-brainer ...... Apple win every time.
I could spend ten minutes and dig up all sorts of crap about MS and it's flaws, why waste my time ??? The question in my mind is, what is best for you .... the user ..... ??
Some folk simply bash Apple because of the pricing structure alone, that is not an argument though. Invariably, you get what you pay for in life. Harsh, but very true. :)
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/opinion/apple/115151/5-reasons-why-a-mac-is-better-than-a-pc/
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I'm firmly in the camp that hates Apple because of the way they conduct their business. They are the business world equivalent of the play ground bully! They beat their suppliers down on the price of building their products, and then they rip the consumer off when they buy an Apple product! This is why the are the richest company in the world with so much cash reserves! It's a shame that people that buy Apple product choose to ignore this side of things.
Think of it another way, if your car manufacture said you could only buy fuel from their filling stations, you can't use cheaper parts from factors and had to pay excessive prices for original main dealer parts, how long would the majority of you put up with that? Oh and every time you bought something for the car you'd have to pay 30% to the manufacturer!
The above said, if someone wanted to buy a smart phone or tablet, and they were not technically minded then I have suggested Apple products in the past, but having very rarely used them this is only based on what I've heard people say.
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You can't blame tech companies for patenting their ideas. Often they simply take out patents to prevent others from later patenting these same ideas and then suing the genuine inventor, wrong way around. The patent system is not meant to allow that but in practice it is hard to stop, as shown by the Australian who was granted a patent for the wheel a few years ago.
I'd actually like to see Apple win a lot more cases. Having been first to mass-market with the modern touch screen smartphone, people like Samsung were able to come along a year or so later, with phones that were all but indistinguishable from iPhones from more than a few feet away. Yet it turned out Apple had precious little legal recourse, other than specific features like individual swipe recognition, iirc. Never seemed quite fair, to me.
Per technical considerations, which is a different matter, I'd point out that both OS X and iOS are built upon an evolution of Unix. For those that are unfamiliar with Unix suffice it to say that many people who profess to like Linux, they are actually liking Unix. :)
But for those that hate Apple so much, why not do as I do with things that I do not like? Just don't buy one. For me, if it subsequently transpires that I am the only person not buying, then it may be time to reconsider my prejudice, but that is optional. If you don't like, just don't buy?
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I've read today, but can't be bothered hunting it down for referencing :), that the longevity of the Apple components more than makes up for the relatively poor PC equivalent.
Horses for courses, it would appear.
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Every time I GOOGLE ..... the difference between .......... it seems to be split down the middle as to which is best. All I can say is that having used BOTH OS's, it's a no-brainer ...... Apple win every time.
I could spend ten minutes and dig up all sorts of crap about MS and it's flaws, why waste my time ??? The question in my mind is, what is best for you .... the user ..... ??
Some folk simply bash Apple because of the pricing structure alone, that is not an argument though. Invariably, you get what you pay for in life. Harsh, but very true. :)
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/opinion/apple/115151/5-reasons-why-a-mac-is-better-than-a-pc/
I've also used both, and would never use Apple by choice. The macbook I have is probably the most expensive computer in the house, it's also by far the most unreliable. I've got better things to do than continually switch the thing on and off in the hope it eventually decides to start properly. its only plus point is the firewire port which none of the other laptops have.
I don't deny that Windows has many flaws, some of them significant. So does Apple. On balance, Windows is far more useful to me than Macos ever will be.
The 5 reasons listed in the above article are very easily refuted. Horses for courses, but Apple are not the company they once were, and their products are not what they used to be. Macs were good at what they did at one time, now they're just overpriced, non-upgradable PCs with a restrictive OS controlled by a dictatorial corporation.
You can't blame tech companies for patenting their ideas.
Except it's not their idea they're patenting, it's someone elses'. Apple manages to patent a hell of a lot of things that are considered prior art, or even fundamental. Sure patent law isn't supposed to allow that, but they get away with it. Perk of being the richest company on the planet in a country that values money above all else (USA).
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...now they're just overpriced, non-upgradable PCs...
On a more light-hearted note, that reminds me. A few years ago, my Mac Mini was running out of steam, clearly wanted more RAM.
Officially it could only be upgraded by Apple, as opening the case required special tools. Various website suggested that a 'putty knife' (or wallpaper scraper, as we would call it in the UK) would do the job. I was reluctant to attack my lovely little bit of tech with a decorator's tool, but eventually tracked down what appeared to be the official Apple service manual that had somehow 'escaped' onto the Internet.
There was indeed a special tool for opening the case, with an Apple part number, available from various online suppliers at not insubstantial cost. The accompanying picture showed... a wooden handled putty knife. Or 'wallpaper scraper' as we would call it.
After a quick detour via Homebase, the RAM upgrade went smoothly, and I remain a loyal customer of Apple . :D
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I'd actually like to see Apple win a lot more cases. Having been first to mass-market with the modern touch screen smartphone, people like Samsung were able to come along a year or so later, with phones that were all but indistinguishable from iPhones from more than a few feet away. Yet it turned out Apple had precious little legal recourse, other than specific features like individual swipe recognition, iirc. Never seemed quite fair, to me.
Surely you are not serious? That's like saying no one else can build a car because it looks the same from a 100 feet away! Apple just copied someone else's idea and marketed it well and got the software roughly right! This existed in 1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Simon), long before Apple copied and patented someone elses idea!
If you don't like, just don't buy?
I don't!
I've read today, but can't be bothered hunting it down for referencing :), that the longevity of the Apple components more than makes up for the relatively poor PC equivalent.
Horses for courses, it would appear.
Have you ever stopped to consider why Apple software/hardware is more reliable than windows? The answer is that Apple has complete control of the hardware used, the drivers written and the OS. Meanwhile there are billions of combinations of possible hardware, with drivers written by god knows who and Windows is expected to run on all of them, try doing that with Apple OS and watch it fall over :lol:
@sevenlayermuddle, there you go, a perfect example of how Apple rip off the end user, make the case extremely difficult to get into and rip off the end user for a simple ram upgrade, the same upgrade on my Windows PC would be a fraction of the cost.
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Apple has and will continue to get away with almost anything more so in America due to the obvious protectionism the US Government seems to display when dragged in to the legal wrangling's with non-American companies. On the subject of ideas and patents, very few of Apples ideas are original if researched. Apple just spit polishes them and then patents it then thinks they can demand obscene amounts of money for design patents yet feels no remorse for refusing to license technology patents created by the likes of Ericsson, Samsung, HTC and many others. They have become the no.1 parasite in the mobile industry.
I've never owned a single Apple device nor wish to own one whilst ever it's run with such a walled garden approach to apps and music. With my current phone (HTC M8) I can if I wish switch to either a Samsung, Sony, Hauwei, and a dozen other lesser known brands and carry on using the same Apps and have the freedom to customise my OS to suite me rather than have Apple dictate what I can and cannot do on the device I purchased.
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I am firmly in the non-Apple camp. Note because I find their stuff technically bad but simply because it is significantly over priced and I absolutely hate their "tie you into Apple or get lost attitude". I had an Amiga PC some years ago which ran an Apple emulator and I loved it (the Apple emulator, although I did love the Amiga more than any PC I have owned since!!) but it was prior to their switch to Intel and *Nix systems but would I shell out ridiculous sums of money for a real Apple PC - NO WAY JOSE! I simply cannot see any point in spending the money for an Iphone (or an Apple PC for that matter), when my contract was up for renewal on my phone I did look but why spend any money on a Iphone when for no money up front I got a Sony Android device which does everything I need including 5ghz wi-fi and 4g with long battery life, plus a free Samsung 7 inch Android 4.4 tablet (which I don' really need but did come in handy to watch downloaded TV programs when I was in hospital recently), all for £5 less per month than I was paying before with the same data included and more texts and minutes than I cold ever use in a month. I simply don't follow fashion and that I believe is what sells Apple stuff, not that it is technically superior but because you are not cool if you don't own one, which is rubbish.
Stuart
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I'm cooler than you, Stuart ..... and slightly skinter. ;) ;D
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I'm cooler than you, Stuart ..... and slightly skinter. ;) ;D
:lol: :lol:
Stuart
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I simply don't follow fashion and that I believe is what sells Apple stuff
Of one thing I am certain, nobody who knows me would ever acuse me of being, at any time in my life, but especially in current and grumpy maturity, a follower of fashion. I've never deviated from the 'short back and sides' hairstyle I settled on as a child, won't ear earphones as they make me feel self conscious, and I drive a Volvo. Not that I don't find it flattering though, even if it is a 'first'. :D
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Surely you are not serious? That's like saying no one else can build a car because it looks the same from a 100 feet away! Apple just copied someone else's idea and marketed it well and got the software roughly right! This existed in 1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Simon), long before Apple copied and patented someone elses idea!
If you think that bears any resemblance to an iPhone then I respectfully suggest that perhaps, despite your criticisms, you have never actually laid eyes on one? :D
More seriously, people are of course entitled to their views. I, having had a very unpleasant experience with a Samsung Android, feel a strong prejudice against such. Yet I don't feel the need to engage in every Android thread with negative comments, along the lines of 'I hate Android'.
I am genuinely curious here as to why threads about Apple get a different response. Maybe, in another life, I should have been a Sociologist, whatever that means?
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I've laid my eyes on a fair few iPhones and ipads, and I'm glad to say that my Samsung S4 and my families S3 Mini's don't resemble an iPhone either, but I bet Apple would find a reason to sue both manufacturers if they could :lol: My point was that Apple didn't invent the touch phone, it existed long before they started filing patents, as did tablets!
According to the news just now Apple don't pay enough tax, or dividends either.
Typed on my Samsung Galaxy Note tablet.
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I am genuinely curious here as to why threads about Apple get a different response.
I think the problem which causes most of the anti-Apple rhetoric is the pricing and the restrictive policy about what you can and cannot do to their hardware. Fine if your Apple device does everything you need and can afford it but there are 1000's for whom it either does not do what they want or simply cannot afford their prices. I simply do not accept that you cannot do anything an Apple device does cheaper and just as reliably with an alternative. After all their PCs now using Linux don't they ;) ;) much of it still the free software (Gutenprint is still heavily used in Macs).
Stuart
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According to the news just now Apple don't pay enough tax, or dividends either.
So, do you voluntarily pay more tax than you need to, as long as you act within the law? If not, why should big Companies?
If you are unhappy with the tax regime then make your feelings known at elections. But you can't blame individuals, corner shops, or huge companies for minimising their tax, as long as it is legal.
Per dividends, I haven't seen that news. But to my understanding, dividend yield is simply a parameter one takes into account when investing and, if the dividend yield is low, investors are free to sell stock walk away. But I'm not aware of any legal reason compelling a company to pay dividends. They pay dividends to keep investors happy and maintain capital and perhaps to minimise tax liabilities. If the investors are already queued around the block and grinning from ear to ear, and the company cash rich and is already structured for minimal tax, why pay a dividend?
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. After all their PCs now using Linux don't they ;) ;) much of it still the free software (Gutenprint is still heavily used in Macs).
Shock horror, no, not really. Apple's OS's are Unix in origin, not Linux.
To the inexpert eye Linux and Unix may look the same. Even if you look at the source code, it may look spookily familiar. But Linux is most definitely a Unix clone, and a relatively modern phenomenon. Unix, in contrast, has a long and fine pedigree.
I feel sure some other forum members if they happen to be reading, even those with a powerful allegiance to Linux, would support me in saying that Unix is subtly different. I would say 'subtly better', but that is personal and confrontational. :)
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I feel sure some other forum members if they happen to be reading, even those with a powerful allegiance to Linux, would support me in saying that Unix is subtly different.
Indeed. :)
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@sevenlayermuddle, if I was super rich then I may well, and if I was a company as rich as Apple then I would reward my investers with more frequent dividends. After all my time is very valuable yet I have spent a lot of that time writing free software for the community.
So you think apples pure greed and bully boy tactics is morally correct, I don't!
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Don't be daft, ronski ............. the thread started about Apple's immense profits due to its vast upturn in i-Phone sales. I don't think 7LM has given a second thought about what Apples corporate stance is, or how they conduct their business ??
The debate (in the main) is about Apple v PC ............ as in the product, not the business model.
I've used the cheap PC versions up to approx. 3yrs ago, I changed to Apple and the look, feel and quality of the product jumps out at you as an average user. I'm not arsed about the code it uses, whether Apple pay their taxes, or if it won't support, MS's 'I want to be an astronaut' software ......... for what I use it for, which is exactly the same as what I used the cheaper PC version for ............ Apple is a far better experience for myself as the user.
This boils down to 'Can one afford to buy Apple products'. Lets not be haters if one can't manage it. There's cheaper stuff available that folk are saying is just as good. ;)
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I'm not being daft, the points I make are perfectly valid, and the companies business tactics should be taken into account.
And for the record, if I chose to I could afford Apple products, I choose not to though. My 27" Dell monitor uses the same panel as Apple cinema screens, but was a third of the price, I have the quality without the expense. Like a lot of people I prefer control over my hardware, and programs that I wish to use. I've spoken to many a person that's had problems with Apple kit, they are not immune to problems.
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For the record...
My dev environment consists of a Mac Mini with LG 'Flatron' monitor that I really like. Permanently USB-connected accessories are a Samsung Optical drive, and a WD HDD. I did invest in an Apple keyboard, but that's just because I like them, a normal PC keyboard works too. The mouse is a Logitech, can't remember why I chose it, 'just a mouse' I suspect, but no regrets.
Last week I bought a car-charger for the iPhone, branded 'amazon basics' but certified for use with iPhone. It was cheap, is well made, and works. The iPhone is in a gel case that I found in Clas Ohlson, also cheap, also good.
:P
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and the companies business tactics should be taken into account.
Right.
I tend to hate Microsoft's business tactics more than I hate Apple's business tactics, but for quite a lot of things, you need to use one or the other. I tend to avoid the lock-in that either would prefer you to end up with, and I tend to not like paying Apple-kind of prices.
I much prefer to use Linux - I've used Unix for longer than I've used a PC or Windows - but it definitely takes more effort sometimes. It does open you up to being able to use cloud-located VPS's rather than the computer on your desktop though.
We tend to use Android for mobile/tablets, but I'm not that hot on the over-bearing power that Google gets either.
None of it proves to be perfect, so I try to tread a neat balance between the whole lot.
My daughter's school has gone for an ipad-per-pupil policy, which has drawn her into that particular evil empire, but perhaps that is better than IT lessons teaching use of Office applications from the other evil empire. I try to balance all that via the Raspberry Pi...
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This is fast becoming a pointless to'ing and fro'ing exercise.
I like Apple products, I think they are far superior compared to what I used to use. hen I see a company making the record profits that Apple have, I also think to myself .... 'Hmm, I my not be on my own with my reasoning ?'.
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I've laid my eyes on a fair few iPhones and ipads, and I'm glad to say that my Samsung S4 and my families S3 Mini's don't resemble an iPhone either, but I bet Apple would find a reason to sue both manufacturers if they could :lol: My point was that Apple didn't invent the touch phone, it existed long before they started filing patents, as did tablets!
According to the news just now Apple don't pay enough tax, or dividends either.
Typed on my Samsung Galaxy Note tablet.
It's a known fact that Apple stole the iPad idea from Roger Fidler of Knight Ridder. Unsure of how to take his idea/prototype to market he invited Apple (at the time based in the next office) to come along and take a look.
Fidler at the time wasn't interested in patenting the idea and Steve Jobs reportedly told him he wasn't interested in developing it either. However without Fidler's knowledge the iPad design was patented soon afterwards.
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We'll see how they get on when "Double Irish" gets binned & Luxembourg finally gets told to clean up their act or be blacklisted by US authorities (no SWIFT = bye bye tax evasion in the duchy).
Oh and when the the USA compels them to repatriate earnings which is on the hit list of EVERY USA politician around due to tax revenue.
MS are naive idiots compared to Apple in terms of fiddling their tax - probably because they do so much business with the USA govt & hence are subject to GAO regulations.
Nobody comes close to Apple in terms of tax avoidance/evasion - not even Amazon.
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I don’t own anything Apple – my choice.
But one of my sons owns an Apple phone and pad. According to him the iPhone is the best phone ever and I’m daft for not owning one (happy with my S4 thank you). Apparently his iPad is the best you can get and I should have one (I don’t own any sort of pad and can’t think of a need for one at the moment).
He also has a Windows PC that I built for him that he uses to store all his music and videos. When I suggested that if Apple was so good perhaps he should sell his Windows PC and buy an Apple PC his response was,
“don’t be silly, if it breaks you can’t fix it, if it needs upgrading you can’t do it, and when it needs replacing you can’t build me another one that will do what I want for a lot less money”.
It turns out he’s an Apple fan who relies on a Windows PC to store his media so that he can share it with his Apple devices. I would guess that it is quite common.
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;)
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Come BS, at least compare like for like :P
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finnowrx.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2Flenovo-A520-ideacentre-windows-8-all-in-one-pc-desktop-mount-1024x720.jpg&hash=720b6ace7ac9d6d1fa643e3182c01bf887f07164)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finnowrx.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2Flenovo-ideacentre-B340-B345-B545-windows-8-all-in-one-pc-desktop.jpg&hash=d45ec18f6bb65a3e26250fc86e62261596d5d009)
Of course if you want small, couple this (http://iotsolutionsalliance.intel.com/solutions-directory/nh1-%E2%80%93-smallest-windows-compute-stick-intel%C2%AE-atom%E2%84%A2-processor-z3735f) with a monitor of choice, and bluetooth keyboard and mouse, perfect for browsing the web, surfing the net and posting on forums, and a fraction of the price.
(https://dounplxsvevsn.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/15054013/intel_compute_stick_specs.jpg)
Try putting Apple OS on that, oh sorry you can't that will be break Apples T&C :lol:
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It turns out he’s an Apple fan who relies on a Windows PC to store his media so that he can share it with his Apple devices. I would guess that it is quite common.
It sounds like your son has a healthy and open-minded attitude, I hope he enters the IT industry.
As will be evident from this thread, I am a devotee of Apple. But much as I like Apple devices, that 'like' is overridden when something else is more appropriate.
The Mac serves day to day desktop duties, and specifically iOS development.
We also have a windows box, which serves for alternative day to day duties or when we are both 'at work', and occasional dev, specifically when we need to see the world through the eyes of the majority of other users, i.e. windows.
As well as the Mac and the PC, we need a server as common storage, source control etc, media and TV recorder. That is a pure workhorse, doesn't even have a monitor attached, so Linux seemed the obvious choice.
And as well as the various iPhones & iPads, I also keep the old Android phone charged up, as once in a while I need to see something that's only available for Android.
I need and will maintain all of that. Difference is, and I know this is personal, the only kit that brings a smile to my face every time I pick it up or use it is... well, guess? ::)
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I'll always go for cheapest device and don't mind it not being the latest model/hardware, if it works and does what you need it to do and save some money ;)
Having never purchased an apple product because the price is not right for my income and there must be more rich people in this world than i first thought if Apples profits are always rising :o
Still the same old stuff after 34 years on, those who could afford a BBC Micro and those who couldn't ZX spectrum, the Atari vs Amiga and Apple VS MS.