Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: Chunkers on January 16, 2020, 08:27:09 PM
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VOIP - why bother?
I really like the idea of VOIP, I know its the current 'end-game' for phone lines and inspired by a comment in this thread (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24224.msg407733.html#msg407733) by PhilipD I went and registered with SipGate although I haven't put it into action yet.
I like the idea of independent service provision from my phone or broadband provider and I know call prices are also cheaper. I also like the idea of using my mobile phones in the house and getting rid of my house phones (although arguably I could do this without VOIP). I like the idea of free SMS messages from the house, although we all have unlimited SMS on our mobile contracts.
Trouble is, I still end up having to pay for my copper line rental anyway because I need it for my ADSL (no FTTP where I live) and as I make very few phones calls anyway I am not really going to save any money on tariffs.
I am basically looking for a good reason to go VOIP other than 'its cool'
What have peoples experiences been? Everything else being equal, is it 'better' than a conventional line?
I am also a bit worried about the non-geeks in my household running into problems e.g. with 0800 numbers or other services
Its so annoying that I have to pay line rental just so I can have copper for my ADSL, and we never actually use the bloody phone ..... grrr >:(
Chunks :cool:
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In my case Sipgate definitely worth it. I don't make a vast number of phone calls, but at just over 1p per minute on land line calls is far cheaper than paying my broadband/phone provider for call packages that I would not use up. Without a call package, BT,Sky, Virgin etc calls are very costly. Sipgate PAUG is fine for my home. Also I don't need to watch the clock when I make a call. Since Sipgate also provide call packages anyway, if you make a lot of calls, it still would be cost effective. The only down side is trying to get the required ATA units for the VOIP line, as they are beginning to be a pain to get. It looks like my Cisco unit might be being phased out. The Grandstream ATA I am using also, has caused a few problems for a time in the past. I have lost my phone line a couple of times, but the broadband managed to just about keep going and the VOIP phones continued to work......... Also I have never had a junk call on my Sipgate phone ever. Wish that were the case for my normal phone line.
There are no problems with 0800 numbers. The only problem that could show up, is that if you dial a wrong number, you receive busy tone not NU.
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I tried AA’s VOIP and it didn’t work reliably, I suspect, due to the fact that my pipe consisted of multiple copper lines bonded and the DSL was too horrible I expect. Then for some reason, I forget why, I had to set up my VoIP box (Siemens) again from scratch. Even though I went through it carefully I then couldn’t get anything to work at my end. I didn’t have the energy to sort it out so I gave up; instead I simply used AA’s facilities to redirect calls to Janet’s mobile anyway which works beautifully, so it’s VoIP to AA to Janet’s EE mobile and it’s zero hassle. I get a phone number from AA and can choose what it is, even choosing a local geographic-looking number if desired.
I pay AA a line-rental-like charge for the copper lines but I get no POTS on them; a telephone won’t work, just get an audio recording. I think BT and AA are working to get a deal from BT where you can buy a service from BT with a charge for the copper line for use with DSL no charge for POTS/PSTN.
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To be fair, paying for a phone line you "never use" is just a case of looking at it wrong.
Better to think of it as "oh I get a free POTS service on my DSL line", as its kinda more accurate to what is going on.
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When I migrated my broadband services to AA I also ported my land line number to their VoIP service. The process was flawless and the service worked impeccably. However, after suffering some lengthy power cuts which exceeded the capacity of my UPS I became concerned about not having a "life line" during such events (mobile reception is patchy here too and we are getting on a bit ;)), so I ported my number back to a fixed line service. It does involve addition line rental although not as expensive as BTW, but the call charges are comparable to VoIP. Horses for courses I suppose.
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We now make almost no outgoing calls on our landline as we both have contract mobile phones and calls using them are therefore free (December landline calls totalled £0.43).
Land line rental costs us £14.40 per month (inc. VAT).
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I try to convince my mum to make all calls using her mobile, but she still uses the landline when shes worried about running out of PAYG credit.
I had to switch her from a contract mobile as due to how the mobile networks function she once accidentally (or a fault with her phone) put a call to Boots onto hold for for almost a day.
VoIP concerns me, I regularly max out both lines, I'm not sure I'd trust even pfSense QoS to handle that completely seamlessly.
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QoS for voice should work if applied in the correct place, which is at the bottleneck. So if using a separate modem the QoS should either be at he modem on the DSL interface, or your upstream router needs to apply outbound shaping so that it is always the bottleneck and nothing gets dropped by the modem. We have had voice running over 256K satellite services which are effectively maxed out all the time, but QoS ensures that voice is unaffected as long as it stays within its assigned bandwidth, and equally that corporate data didn't get affected by Internet access.
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Some great replies and insights here, in the end I am kinda looking for an excuse to play around VoIP with because I am a geek :D
I think what I will do is set up a line and use it for my home office, this will enable me to keep my work stuff neatly aside from private calling (and claim back any calls). It will also help me learn about VoIP without impacting the family as I will have a separate line and can connect using work mobile ...
I will probably buy a phone adapter for a desk phone as well, any recommendations?
The Grandstream (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grandstream-GS-HT802-HT802-2-x-FXS/dp/B01JH7MYKA) seems to get favourable reviews, are the Cisco (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cisco-SPA112-2-Port-Phone-Adapter/dp/B00684PN54/ref=pd_aw_sbs_107_2/262-9524102-4102101?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00684PN54&pd_rd_r=e863cffb-8aed-42b9-9d8d-caefff9021fd&pd_rd_w=6KAoy&pd_rd_wg=MGSb8&pf_rd_p=0208d703-a674-4413-8899-c3889837d212&pf_rd_r=RGHTCJN5GM0NMC0Q48T2&psc=1&refRID=RGHTCJN5GM0NMC0Q48T2) models any better?
A shame I don't see any wireless single box phone adapters around.
Chunks
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QoS for voice should work if applied in the correct place, which is at the bottleneck. So if using a separate modem the QoS should either be at he modem on the DSL interface, or your upstream router needs to apply outbound shaping so that it is always the bottleneck and nothing gets dropped by the modem. We have had voice running over 256K satellite services which are effectively maxed out all the time, but QoS ensures that voice is unaffected as long as it stays within its assigned bandwidth, and equally that corporate data didn't get affected by Internet access.
I may be too paranoid, after all I'm pretty sure I used to play Xbox Live with Voice Chat while maxing out my connection with Usenet downloads. Its just that when that day comes I move my telephone number over (likely a consideration once I get FTTP), AFAIK there is no going back. So if I end up on a crap service, I'm stuck.
But as my mum uses the landline explicitly to avoid the chance of a dropped call due to running out of credit, of VoIP wasn't completely solid, it wouldn't achieve that goal. We both suffer from stress especially when waiting on hold, so getting cut off is a huge issue.
I do have to say I used BT Voice a few times before they killed it, as well as O2s Voice over WiFi app before they killed that, both seemed to work well. I do keep saying to my mum, why not just keep her phone topped up with £20 or so, not much chance of burning through that in a single call, but that would be a lot to lose if she failed to hang up the call again.
Ironically, I do still have two VoIP accounts I signed up to ages ago, but I stopped using them as I couldn't find a good app for my phone. I had them for my domains, back when you werent allowed to hide your registration details.
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I will probably buy a phone adapter for a desk phone as well, any recommendations?
We've used those SPA112 in a couple of installations, where an analogue device was specifically needed (example external loud ringers in workshop areas). Personally for a phone I'd prefer to use a native IP phone. At home I use a Gigaset N300A with two DECT handsets. I have that registered with SIP Gate which has our local phone number, and with Local Phone that has cheaper call rates. Of course you can set all that up without committing to changing your landline until you're happy. You can configure both SIP Gate and Local Phone to present your landline number as CLI.
Here are some examples ..
https://www.ligo.co.uk/telephones/voip-phones/
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+1 Gigaset (850go) very good and has answer machine for both pots and voip calls.
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+1 Gigaset (850go) very good and has answer machine for both pots and voip calls.
Looks nice, if I decide to go full VoIP they look like a good candidate. My wife is always complaining about the quality of the sound over our copper line, I am hoping it will be better over VoIP and that might tip the balance ;)
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Looks nice, if I decide to go full VoIP they look like a good candidate. My wife is always complaining about the quality of the sound over our copper line, I am hoping it will be better over VoIP and that might tip the balance ;)
Depends who you are calling I'd think, some call centres have terrible quality and I think most are VoIP these days.
Really despise the quality of mobile calls though, annoys me no end that O2 do not support VoLTE/WiFi on PAYG.
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I have FTTC broadband line from Sky in my home, not that our traffic really needs the bandwidth, but ADSL is pathethic here. My VOIP calls are 99pc of the time, perfect quality. The calls are louder than our BT/Sky line. The one problem I do have is that Sipgate used to give the option of call forwarding in the event of the broadband falling over. Unfortunately that option has gone, and the only option now is call forwarding if calls are not answered. Did try using this option, and arranging that our answering machine took the call before diversion took place, but Sipgate's timing was too short to fiddle the facility that I actually wanted.
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I originally planned to setup a PBX and have sipgate accounts hooked into that, but setting up a PBX looked unreasonably complicated at the time.
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If you're interested in that line, have a look at "3CX". https://www.3cx.com/ That works nicely with Sipgate.
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I really didn't want to mess with VMs, such a waste of resources. Surprised they don't do a container version, as I understand it virtualising is on the way out because its such an inefficient use of resources.
I see unofficial documentation on installing it via Docker, but were back into the "complicated" aspect of getting things working then. :no:
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The Windows and Linux builds can run natively, they don't have to be VMs, there's even a Raspberry Pi option. A PBX handles real time data so needs some sort of predictable platform, either virtualised with suitable resource reservation or dedicated hardware. What would be your preferred platform?
I mainly deal with business systems and I must say I don't see any move away from virtualisation in our customer base.
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Hi
I'd recommend a Panasonic KX-TGP600 usually supplied with the handset type TPA60, especially for anyone who likes to tinker as you can get at loads of settings.
The handset is a step up from the usual consumer plastic affairs you tend to get now and has a nice premium feel. Very easy to keep clean as there is no printing on top of the phone (the buttons are clear and printed on the reverse) so no fear of wiping off the lettering or trying to clean around rubber buttons, plus backlights really nicely as well. Screen is bright and clear and it has an LED indicator that flashes to get your attention (message left or missed call).
Panasonic keep the software up to date and it has been 100% reliable with Sipgate. Works really well if you have multiple numbers as easy to pick "a line" to call out on.
Our copper telephone line has gone now as on FTTP, so it is our landline now. No one has noticed any difference calling us on it, and message waiting indicators work with Sipgate.
In terms of hardware, as is the trend these days, VoIP phones use a design/chipset from the same few companies, the Panasonic is using a VoIP chipset from DSP, and in this model they use DSPs top of the line chipset DVF9919 (https://www.dspg.com/wp-content/uploads/ENTERPRISE_VOICE_DVF_FAMILY.pdf).
Regards
Phil