Kitz Forum
Chat => Chit Chat => Topic started by: kitz on August 08, 2011, 11:17:44 PM
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Surprised that no-one has said anything about the riots and mindless thugs destroying parts of our capitol.
Someone has to do it.. but please keep it civil... as no point arguing amongst ourselves. Save any anger towards the rioters.
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Ive also just watched this facebook page in support of the London Met go viral... it was only started a couple of hours ago and I watched it increase at several hundred per second... and in just less than half an hour since I joined, theres been about another 120,000.
Ive never ever seen a page go so viral so quick. Just shows what the majority of the decent people think.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Supporting-the-Met-Police-against-the-London-rioters/152937041453243
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It's dreadful isn't it Kitz ..... seeing the images on the BBC and French TV tonight is horrifying. The mayhem that these thugs are causing is deplorable and no right minded person could possibly support what is happening. They are not fighting for a cause, they are simply out of control and should be dealt with accordingly. My own feeling is that the authorities should take the strongest measures to quell these thugs, and to heck with the criticism they might get; in fact I think perhaps they would be well supported by the majority of the public. People homes, businesses, livelihoods all in ruins ..... copy cat eruptions all over the place ! I am so angry at what I am seeing and hearing.
PS.... Ken Livingstone should hang his head in shame. >:(
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I've been sat watching the news with a huge lump in my throat.. watching these thugs destroy the lives and business of so many.
I was almost reduced to tears listening to one guy describing how his family business of well over 100 * years has been torched and ruined.
I cant believe that so many old buildings that withstood world wars are now being reduced to shells. Im shocked and horrified that this has now been going on for several days and each day only getting worse.
My gawd cant they call in the troops or something, because its much too big for the police to handle now and there just isnt enough of them to be able to protect all the various areas where more violence is sparking up :'(
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Updated
Just been on again.
Since 1857. He's saying theres no support from law and order and its just being allowed to happen... and all they can do is sit and watch it being destroyed in front of their eyes. Then the fire brigade finally coming, but driving away because they dont have the resources to be able to cope and put out the blaze.
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I too think the military should be in there now ...... I'm listening to the radio and have just heard an eye witness report from a man in Croydon looking out of his window and seeing a woman in a car being stopped by a group of hooded/masked youths, forced out of the car, and then the car set alight. :o
Edited .... realised I had the wrong location Croydon not Clapham .
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Its appalling SM.. so many buildings on fire and being looted. Theres reports of people trying to call the police but phones not being answered because there just arent sufficient numbers of police to be able to attend.
Why why why cant they call in the military.. NOW - well they should have been put on standby long before now.
We seem to be able to pack our troops off to foreign shores within hours, so why cant we protect our own country.
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ANIMALS!!!
Get water cannons now and shoot looters.
Haven't the government learned anything after the student riots a few months ago. The police need to be given more powers instead of being held back by the human rights laws which protects the criminal more than the victim.
Most of these thugs have left(or are still at school),hardly able to read and write and now suddenly because the can't get a job(not that many of them want one anyway) have decided its Britain's fault.
They have spent most of their school years playing truant,their parents not knowing,or not wanting to know what they are up.
If these thugs are minors their parents need to be made more responsible for their children's actions.
Anyone arrested and convicted should have their benefits stopped and also they should lose their right to council housing,the same council that has put a roof over their heads and is now facing millions of pounds of criminal damage,money that could have been spent trying to improve these moron's lives.
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The police are on a hiding to nothing in this situation. They will do their best to contain the riots with inadequate resources, and when it's all over they'll have to answer all the complaints about 'brutality' and 'overreaction'. Meanwhile the victims will be left with the task of putting their lives back together.
I'm with the others here. This isn't a time for a soft response. Get the troops in and use water cannon, and make sure that the punishment fits the crime.
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I have just seen the home secretary (Theresa May)being interviewed by the BBC..I have never heard so much drivel come out of a government officials mouth.
Every question asked was just deflected...and when asked about the use of water cannon and the use of troops,she replied..Thats not how we do things on mainland Britain....... :-X :angry:
The bottom line is no matter how stretched the police were,they stood by while decent innocent people had their homes,businesses destroyed by gangs of yobs.
Shops were looted and still police stood by keeping their distance.
There was no reason why troops could not have been put on the streets last night to help police.
Right across Britain there are millions of angry decent UK citizens who all feel the same...They have been let down by this government.
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I'm with you unky - send in the troops, set up a Guantanamo-style holding pen (in the rain, in the open) and process them really slowly. Keep them under lock and key until their case is heard - remand to prevent further re-offending is an acceptable reason. If convicted, then hard labour rebuilding destroyed properties and rebuilding people's (victim's) lives and possessions. Minimum term for such should be 10 years.
Colin
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Typical BBC reporting
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2011%2F08%2F08%2Farticle-2023902-0D5B505000000578-556_634x600.jpg&hash=562e5fb5937fdff0b476af0916bede1a02db3244)
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I actually sent a complaint by email to the BBC, following one of their broadcasts on these riots, on Sunday night. They have a beef with the current coalition because their licence fee has been frozen, and are generally of the left wing persuasion anyway. The programme in question was interrupted by the Tottenham troubles and the presenter went into meltdown almost. It was quite embarrassing listening to him ranting and raving, appearing to pick 'witnesses' from the air to broadcast their opinions, not the factual news. In the end I had to turn it off before I blew gasket.
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I must say firstly that I can't agree with calling the scum and filth at the bottom of this violence "animals", imo animals have more sense and have, more times than not a sense of order unless there's a reason not to be.
Stayed up last night to watch in horror the scenes of lawlessness Britain, I think a lot of people were expecting something of this sort to happen for a long time, it's been coming what with the way young people are brought up today and given free rein to have what they want. They've no respect for authority and especially the police and they've certainly shown that over the last three days.
The awful shooting incident that happened which some say started all this was just an excuse IMO...the rioters are thugs and criminals nothing more and didn't have any other agenda than to create violence and chaos for their own ends. Horrendous scenes and you have to feel so sorry for the innocent people involved who have lost their homes and their possessions and the devastation to businesses is appalling. The cost of all this I'm sure will be felt by us all for a long time yet.
I'm fed up with listening to people say "it's disenfranchised youth, they have nowhere to go, no jobs, no direction in life". What! I've read and heard stories from the depression years in this country where people literally didn't have food or shoes and there were no benefits then! Those people didn't riot and burn everything in sight...they saw it through and came out the other side.
The only "good" this morning is that there are decent people out there helping those affected and giving their time to help in the clear up. This shouldn't have to be should it...this isn't our country, our island as we knew it. Question is, is this the start of what's to come or is this the beginning of something that will actually bring a stop to what has darkened our country for a long time which has resulted in this?
Chrissie
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I'm fed up with listening to people say "it's disenfranchised youth, they have nowhere to go, no jobs, no direction in life". What! I've read and heard stories from the depression years in this country where people literally didn't have food or shoes and there were no benefits then! Those people didn't riot and burn everything in sight...they saw it through and came out the other side.
I'm not sure whether I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you, Chrissie.
I personally think that 'Rioting' is the wrong word. That word implies some kind of protest, whereas last night is simply a breakdown of law & order, with elements of society siezing the opportunity for looting and free shopping.
Locking up individual trouble-makers will bring us (me, at least) some satisfaction. Shooting them with water canon, or even plastic bullets is not entirely unapealing.
But at the end of the day, no amount of 'punishment' will solve the underlying problem, that something is badly broken in the structure of our society, particularly as regards many young people who, for whatever reasons, do not percieve themseleves to be a part of it. That is the problem that the politicans need to address, and I don't think there can be any quick fix.
Just my view.
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Hi SLM, I only mentioned riots because it's the thread title. I think it is riotous behaviour with more attached though, anarchy as well, disrespect for the law of the country and wanton destruction all come to mind too.
In everything I always advocate prevention before cure but with what is happening in this country, the prevention atm is too late unfortunately and IMO preventing it from now on is going to take some harsh measures which again IMO people will not stand for. They won't want to discipline their children, not let them have 24hr access to tv, computers, electronic games et al. The parents whose children are perpertrating these crimes rarely give a toss because let's face it if they had brought their children up correctly in the first place, this wouldn't be happening now. The prevention I always speak about needed to have started some years go, strict control over children in schools, parents giving consent for their child to be told right from wrong in no uncertain terms, instead of being allowed free rein to do as they please "because of their human rights".
It's my opinion that now the time has come for cure, no one will like the outcome and this country is far to soft to implement anything other than a slap on the wrist. I watched the tv interview with Teresa May who stated, "This country does not undertake law and order with water cannons or bringing in the army...". With that ethos in any government, what chance do we stand?
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But at the end of the day, no amount of 'punishment' will solve the underlying problem, that something is badly broken in the structure of our society, particularly as regards many young people who, for whatever reasons, do not percieve themseleves to be a part of it. That is the problem that the politicans need to address, and I don't think there can be any quick fix.
When they banned caning in schools was when this started,pupils have now no respect for teachers and if they even touch them they threaten to sue them.
A lot of parents are no better,often going into schools and assaulting teachers.
Many kids are brought up using social networking speak and can't read or write properly,often playing truant.Parents have the 'out of sight out of mind' attitude and if there is any trouble their first response is,it can't be my so and so he/she is at so and so's etc.
The way to hit these people is take away their welfare benefits,as most of the yobs last night don't work/will never work,following in their parents and even grandparents footsteps.
You are right Colin,there is no quick fix,but a start has to be made somewhere.
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But at the end of the day, no amount of 'punishment' will solve the underlying problem, that something is badly broken in the structure of our society, particularly as regards many young people who, for whatever reasons, do not percieve themseleves to be a part of it. That is the problem that the politicans need to address, and I don't think there can be any quick fix.
When they banned caning in schools was when this started,pupils have now no respect for teachers and if they even touch them they threaten to sue them.
A lot of parents are no better,often going into schools and assaulting teachers.
Many kids are brought up using social networking speak and can't read or write properly,often playing truant.Parents have the 'out of sight out of mind' attitude and if there is any trouble their first response is,it can't be my so and so he/she is at so and so's etc.
The way to hit these people is take away their welfare benefits,as most of the yobs last night don't work/will never work,following in their parents and even grandparents footsteps.
You are right Colin,there is no quick fix,but a start has to be made somewhere.
Yes, I agree with most of that.
I remember first week at secondary school, first encounter with a very popular English teacher, when he summoned three lads at random and gave them 'three of the belt'. He explained that it was just a tactic to ensure that although we could enjoy his light-hearted humour, we also recognised his authority. The poor lads knew there was no point in telling Dad, as Dad just clipped you again if he heard you'd got the belt at school.
Any teacher doing above would be thorwn in jail dowadays, but the tactic worked. The guy was subsequently able to run English classes which were a lot of fun, whilst still staying in control - yet the belt was rarely deployed again. The lads affected got over it of course, because 'getting the belt' was almost a daily ritual 70s Glasgow schooling. :)
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Must admit SLM I don't agree with violence to control anyone even though it was the same situation for us at school in those days, I guess it was a threat to most of us so we behaved (read scare witless to do anything else for moi lol). My way of dealing with children is to deprive them of something which hurts much more and doesn't teach them violence as a method of control. However, even saying that I know in our soft society it would mean something else had to be brought in, but IF parents were in control of their children as they were years ago, maybe the non violent control might even work now! Horse and stable door sadly come to mind at this point in time. :(
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Parliament has been recalled and will sit on Thursday
16000 police will be on the streets of London tonight,still not the answer imo.If water cannon was brought in those police numbers could be reduced substantially.
Once the video footage has been analysed,no doubt in the coming days there will be a few front doors coming off their hinges and dragging this scum out of their beds to (hopefully)get a sentence that will fit their crime/s
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According to 'on the spot' reports there were children as young as 7 on the streets in some of these areas ! :o
Sadly the publicity that these yobs are receiving on the 24 hours news services is giving them the oxygen they desire. Perhaps the news media should now concentrate on the many people, including young people, who are joining in the campaign, currently being distributes on social networks, who are getting together to clean up certain areas.
What a very sad episode for the UK. Any similar events that have taken place here, events of two years ago in the suburbs or Paris come to mind, the CRS are automatically deployed and water cannons are used. They seem to be very effective. I would mentioned that the Gendarmes, Police and CRS are permanently armed here, and this doesn't result in countless people being shot.
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16000 police will be on the streets of London tonight,still not the answer imo.If water cannon was brought in those police numbers could be reduced substantially.
Have to agree there Uncy. Trouble is Teresa May categorically stated this morning that water cannons and the army on the streets is definitely (defiantly??) not the way we do things in this country!! :-X
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16000 police will be on the streets of London tonight,still not the answer imo.If water cannon was brought in those police numbers could be reduced substantially.
Have to agree there Uncy. Trouble is Teresa May categorically stated this morning that water cannons and the army on the streets is definitely (defiantly??) not the way we do things in this country!! :-X
No they just do that and worse in other countries. >:( Funny how we can shoot,burn,torture and bomb women and children in other places but we cannot have criminals controlled here.
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I watched a home-video last night that someone had put up on their twitter.
It showed a mob charging 8 riot police and how they had to retreat whilst bricks and street signs were hurled at them.
BBC have posted an (edited and bleeped out version) this morning, that to me didnt quite evoke the same sense of horror/fear for the police as the one I watched last night.
I say bring out one of these (http://www.myspace.com/video/big-jay/talon-riot-control-vehicle/37245152). *
I gave up watching the BBC last night.. and I was sick of seeing the repeated Theresa May (or maynots) pathetic wimpy speech.
I switched to Sky and the social network group news where far more information was coming out.
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*On reflection where are the Talons? These cost millions of pounds.. wonder if they are still here or if they have been shipped out for use in other countries.
The one thing that sickens me in all this IS the fact we are so goddamn quick to ship out help and our forces to other countries/nations.. but seem to be dragging feet when it comes to protecting our own country and citizens. ???
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In May this year the G8 Summit was held in Deauville, in the Calvados region. Being aware that previous G8 summits have been subjected to attacks by people hell bent on causing problems, 12,000 police/gendarmes were deployed for the two day event. ( a close friend of ours was one of these) Deauville has a population of 4,000. No trouble !!
Let us hope that the UK are preparing to deploy an appropriate number of control officers,whether they be police or military, to cover the Olympic games in 2012. It doesn't bear thinking about the 'mileage' that these mindless 'rent a mob' would get out of an event such as that.
I am totally unconvinced that the perpetrators are disenfranchised youths, but more convinced that they are opportunists.
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I thought/think Theresa Mays comment this morning were disgraceful and if I was in the commons would be calling for her resignation.
There's already plenty of photos circulating of the looters,won't be long before a few front doors are coming off their hinges.
I have been trawling through various Facebook pages and came across someone openly posting that Barnet will be in line for trouble tonight...I wonder if police intelligence has picked up on it.
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I've been sat watching the news with a huge lump in my throat.. watching these thugs destroy the lives and business of so many.
I've just heard a video that is shocking to listen to - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554
It's the video entitled "Two 17-year-olds said they were "showing police and rich people they could do whatever they wanted".
I wouldn't call businessmen rich, they are just trying to make a living :(
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Most of these thugs have left(or are still at school),hardly able to read and write and now suddenly because the can't get a job(not that many of them want one anyway) have decided its Britain's fault.
Agreed.
I've been unemployed at various times throughout my life but I've not resorted to rioting, theft and violence :o
It all started when an alleged gangster got shot dead by the police in retaliation after allegedly shooting at the police.
I don't know why the rioting escalated perhaps the yobs just liked what they were doing and so continued with it :-\
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Highbury Corner Magistrates Court has dealt with a large number of cases arising from the riots in north London.
Those who appeared this afternoon were all male and generally in their 20s, although there were some youths.
Charges were most commonly burglary and criminal damage. There were a large number of guilty pleas entered.
The magistrates said that their powers of punishment were insufficient in the light of the fact that the offences were committed during a riot, which amounted to a "substantial aggravating feature".
A significant number of those charged were said in court to be of previously good character and had simply been drawn in to the offending.
In one defendant's case, a lawyer described his client as offending in "a moment of madness".
And this is what Cameron means by 'the full force of the law' >:(
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100 Tons broken into the arndale centre m,Chester. Is that your robust policing mr cameron
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OMG. This is just getting worse tonight and its spreading country-wide.
More force should have been utilised before now to nip this in the bud. Now we just have thugs around the UK seeing that people in London getting away with the looting and pillaging that they think they can also get away with it if they start a more local one.
IMHO Blackberry should close down their BBM service which is being used to organise many of these outbursts an co-ordinate attacks.
The REALLY ironic thing.. is if they do have Blackberries.. they can hardly be that hard done by can they?
@ UB.. yeah I see various social media methods such as FB and Twitter being used to set up these attacks too.
AFAIK Facebook at least seem to be pro-active.
I (and obviously others) saw a group last night, which was reported to FAcebook. It was gone a few hours later. I hope Facebook also forwarded the member details to the police.
Now I hate to be considered racist.. but I am just stating a fact here, so dont shoot the messenger.
I saw the names of those group members, I even saw many of their own profile pics. NONE of them had any 'traditional UK names' all of the names were like Mohamed, Ariff etc etc.
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Now I hate to be considered racist.. but I am just stating a fact here, so dont shoot the messenger.
I saw the names of those group members, I even saw many of their own profile pics. NONE of them had any 'traditional UK names' all of the names were like Mohamed, Ariff etc etc.
Your not alone, I was thinking the same thing,
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YAY.. well done the community of Enfield. Brave people taking matters into their own hands. Be safe.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc6%2F254667_235412543164866_234774236562030_636347_8083436_n.jpg&hash=2eecb2c118e204298762067497a573d1f0b1a251)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=235412543164866&set=a.234828229889964.56581.234774236562030&type=1
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No Kitz, not in the least racist, but just a plain statement of fact. You must remember though that they are "underprivileged and entitled to do this sort of thing".
I find the whole thing sickening - most if not all of us on here have pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps and earned an honest living, despite what life may have thrown at us.
Colin
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I understood that the thugs didn't actually get in the Arndale Centre, but that might be old news. I'm currently listening to BBC Radio ...... a taxi driver is speaking, he was chased by a crowd of thugs with iron bars, he had a fare on board, he had to drive on the pavement to escape and police escorted him to drop off the passengers and then home.
Another witness reports a family !!! pulling up outside a Lidl shop in Salford which had been broken into, the parents and two children !!!!! filled up the boot and drove off ..... it is unbelievable.
I agree the Blackberry reseau should be taken off (or at least closed down between 6pm and 6am) .... I didn't realise, until earlier today, that Blackberry messages were actually not on an open network like Twitter ! My sentiments entirely about them having these fancy phones Kitz..... these are not deprived people ...they are thieves and thugs .
I think if the Government are anxious about bringing in the military, they should be at least brought in to contain the thugs that are rounded up, leaving the police to get on with their policing. They need to be using a more heavy handed approach now.
I'm just listening to the manager of the Arndale Centre now Unc ... apparently "because contingency plans had been put in place earlier, stock removed from shops etc " .... they apparently " got through the first line of defences, but then left without anything " ....... goodness it sounds like a war zone.
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YAY.. and another one.... go people of the UK.
Millwall fans protecting Eltham High Street.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Ftwitpic%2Fphotos%2Ffull%2F368777860.jpg%3FAWSAccessKeyId%3DAKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA%26amp%3BExpires%3D1312923184%26amp%3BSignature%3DmbL2eFo4QHYP5jA8O9YDSwaThzg%253D&hash=f8b0856c9376de451c0cc0991036c22b74292453)
http://twitpic.com/63k6tg
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You know, I'm beginning to wonder if all the trouble is better organised than we gave credit for. The BBC earlier reported that printed leaflets had been distributed, giving legal advice to miscreants on how to avoid prosecution. Who on Earth printed them?
Further, I've just heard an account (third hand, I'm afraid, so there's scope for distortion by chinese whispers) from an Uncle who lives in one of the affected London boroughs. The tale goes that, last evening, his neighbour's law-abiding teenage son received text messages from an unknown source, telling him where to go to join in. If there's any truth at all in that, then who sent these messages? And how did the perpetrator manage to compile a list of teenage boys' phone numbers?
I stress again there's scope for exageration in that, so let's not read TOOO much into it. Food for thought, though. :o
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The BBC earlier reported that printed leaflets had been distributed, giving legal advice to miscreants on how to avoid prosecution
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The above would indeed appear to be true.. Ive 'borrowed' the pic below from someone I know who lives down there, who posted the image a couple of days ago. Seems like the 'flyers' where being handed around. :(
I was lost for words when I saw it.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I'm just listening to the manager of the Arndale Centre now Unc ... apparently "because contingency plans had been put in place earlier, stock removed from shops etc " .... they apparently " got through the first line of defences, but then left without anything
Part of the centre was looted,yobs coming out with armfuls of clothing etc.
Once again (apart from London) the police response was pathetic,just stood and watched as shops were openly looted.
A senior police official said it was inappropriate to have water cannons on the streets of London and anyone who thought different doesn't know what they are talking about.
Why is London different to any other major European city and how do you differ between British thugs in London and British thugs in Northern Ireland..
These thugs just don't seem bothered by the consequences they face if arrested,that is because the punishment/s handed are are pathetic thanks to the law makers of this country.
Yes you will get a few that are jailed,but the majority will get a fine and a slapped wrist.
The comments by Boris Johnson,Theresa May and Nick Clegg(he hadn't the guts to face the people on the streets yesterday when shaking hands with firemen and police officers) were spineless, and gutless.
Some of the images in the link below will turn any decent human beings stomach
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024203/UK-riots-flare-Manchester-Birmingham-London-s-FOURTH-night-violence.html
(Not much evidence of 'robust' police tactics there) >:(
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I'm wondering if there is too much reporting. For instance, to report that this leaflet is in circulation as well as 'informing ' the public, it's informing the perpetrators too ..... they can then regroup and change their tactics. The same with the announcement that 16,000 police would be deployed in London, this should should of course have been done, but IMHO, not broadcast - it was obvious, well it was to me, that the gangs would simply co-ordinate their rampages elsewhere, where there was no increase in cover, and that's evidently what happened. We don't need to know what is happening every moment, or what steps are being taken .... we don't need to have the same images on the 24 hour news broadcasts, or the mentioning of these events every 15 minutes (and that's what is is on R5 Live at the moment). The same programme reported earlier that they had just received an e-mail from a serving policeman saying that they couldn't cope. I heard that very same thing broadcast last night on the same station, different presenter; how do the BBC know this is a serving policeman for goodness sake ? (I doubt very much that it was) anyone could send an e-mail..... how irresponsible is that ! the thugs will be listening and watching to see how famous they all are now - broadcasting at its worse. >:( To top it all, the BBC Web site had a link to two young girls boasting about what they were doing, and laughing in the face of decency ..... another famous pair now !!!
The whole episode, which is dreadful, is being carried out by a minority of yobs, and yet the coverage is so OTT that it's starting to be offensive in itself.
I notice that the people who volunteered for the clean up process are not getting as much publicity .... but that's good news isn't it .... so it doesn't make the headlines.
I've switched off my radio !
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Before and after the riots images(move the central slider left of right)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2011/aug/09/london-riots-before-after-photographs?CMP=twt_gu
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The North West seemed to get the brunt of it last night. I cant begin to explain my emotion when I saw Dawson's window put in and looted. I think every musician and anyone interested in music in the North knows of Dawsons, their reputation and many will likely have bought instruments from there. They used antique guitars to smash down windows and god knows what idiots thought they would actually find cash lying around in Nat West after using a grand piano to batter into the Bank next door. FGS all cash will be locked away in a strongroom.
>> I'm wondering if there is too much reporting.
TBH far more info is coming out on the social networks than what the BBC is putting out.
The Blackberry messaging service (groups) is one of the main networks used by them for distributing updated info.
I cant recall where I read it now, but I do recall someone saying that their young son had got an anonymous text giving info where the next action was to take place. It would perhaps appear that someone is 'highjacking' friends lists of schoolchums? Who knows?
>> to report that this leaflet is in circulation as well as 'informing ' the public.
Those leaflets were being openly circulated to anyone, they were 'dropped' en mass and many littered the streets. The same info will also have been circulated via the many social networking groups which the yobs use to find out their info.
>> the BBC Web site had a link to two young girls boasting about what they were doing
This is just plain wrong.. Sky news was just as guilty by giving the thugs 'prime time' when IMHO they should be reporting them to the police - not giving them their 2 mins of 'fame'.
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>> Why is London different to any other major European city and how do you differ between British thugs in London and British thugs in Northern Ireland..
I totally agree.
>> the police response was pathetic,just stood and watched as shops were openly looted.
The police dont seem to be doing anything.
Dunno if you saw the home video last night that was circulating.
These are not the looters... these are UK citizens (theres a rumour that the EDL may have been involved) trying to protect their own streets and home towns, hence the cries of England England. Note how the police is walking amongst them - at the back.
http://www.twitvid.com/DWZPW
(You may have to wait a while for the vid to load - it seems under heavy demand right now with 226k views)
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Dunno if you saw the home video last night that was circulating.
These are not the looters... these are UK citizens (theres a rumour that the EDL may have been involved) trying to protect their own streets and home towns, hence the cries of England England. Note how the police is walking amongst them - at the back.
Yes there was various groups/factions all out trying do one thing....protect their property/livelihoods and stop the looters.
WE saw groups of English East End men,groups of Asians who were outside protecting their mosques and various other groups..
Well done I say,I would have done the same under those circumstances.I will/would do anything to protect my family and my home.
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The police are in an impossible position, because they know that there's an army of sleazy lawyers waiting to sue them on behalf of any thug who is 'traumatised' by a grazed knee caused by police action. As a society we've effectively neutered the police because of a small number of very sad cases where they really have messed up badly. What is needed in my opinion is for our spineless politicians to give total support to the police to do whatever is necessary, including water cannon and other strong means, to deal with the rioters.
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The police are in an impossible position, because they know that there's an army of sleazy lawyers waiting to sue them on behalf of any thug who is 'traumatised' by a grazed knee caused by police action. As a society we've effectively neutered the police because of a small number of very sad cases where they really have messed up badly. What is needed in my opinion is for our spineless politicians to give total support to the police to do whatever is necessary, including water cannon and other strong means, to deal with the rioters.
:clap2: :clap2: :clap2:
Exactly,there is far too much left wing political correctness.If the laws need changing......then change them.
Lets start putting the victims welfare first not the criminals
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The police are in an impossible position, because they know that there's an army of sleazy lawyers waiting to sue them on behalf of any thug who is 'traumatised' by a grazed knee caused by police action. As a society we've effectively neutered the police because of a small number of very sad cases where they really have messed up badly. What is needed in my opinion is for our spineless politicians to give total support to the police to do whatever is necessary, including water cannon and other strong means, to deal with the rioters.
That hits the nail on the head.
exo
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What is needed in my opinion is for our spineless politicians to give total support to the police to do whatever is necessary, including water cannon and other strong means, to deal with the rioters.
I agree, ways need to be found for the Police to handle things.
Organised groups of well-intentioned vigilantes may seem like a good idea, and it's easy to feel chuffed when you see the good citizens acting together, with use of force, to protect the things that we care for. But that's probably how the Ku Klux Klan perceived themselves, and I'm sure we'd all agree how evil they turned out to be...
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Just seen on the news that one of the men in court charged with burglary was a 31 year (black) teacher.He was arrested inside one of the shops.He has been sent to the crown court for sentencing as the magistrates courts apparently can only give up to 6 month sentences,where as the crown court can give out up to 10 years
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Are the courts are giving out tough punishments.
One was arrested for looting 2 T shirts from a shop.
After a night in the police cells he was brought up before the courts.
He was sentenced to one day in prison but as he had already spent a night in the police cells, the sentence was considered time served, so he was released.
That will teach him a lesson............and he got a free breakfast.
exo
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Are the courts are giving out tough punishments.
One was arrested for looting 2 T shirts from a shop.
After a night in the police cells he was brought up before the courts.
He was sentenced to one day in prison but as he had already spent a night in the police cells, the sentence was considered time served, so he was released.
That will teach him a lesson............and he got a free breakfast.
exo
I saw that,
and the one who couldn't be named for legal reasons was in court with mummy and daddy( who were crying)Pity they weren't so concerned of his whereabouts Monday night
It was just a moment of madness and he has such a bright future in front of him :-X
The case has been passed to the crown court...hope he goes down...that will put paid to his bright future.
Right off to M&S to do a bit of looting...a couple of shirts and free B&B ;)
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Croydon magistrates court have dealt with 36 cases today - 25 with no previous convictions. Only one 14-year-old was released.
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One of the saddest things to come out of these riots, excluding those who have died of course, is that there is a man in hospital in a very critical condition. He had been injured in Ealing Broadway on Monday evening, he was trying to extinguish a fire in a waste bin when he was attacked by a mob. They left him for dead, after apparently robbing him - he had no form of ID on him, wallet or mobile ........... the terrible thing is that no-one has reported him missing. How dreadful is that :(
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There's already plenty of photos circulating of the looters,won't be long before a few front doors are coming off their hinges.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14491173 ;)
Plenty of work for joiners....now if only ;D
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There's already plenty of photos circulating of the looters,won't be long before a few front doors are coming off their hinges.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14491173 ;)
Plenty of work for joiners....now if only ;D
I'm so glad that the message is going out that you can't get away with rioting, looting and thuggery.
Perhaps now we will see the end of the riots.
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Perhaps now we will see the end of the riots.
I hope the government is at last getting the message that most of the general public is fed up with the way that criminals seem to have more rights than victims.
They are fed up with soft sentences handed out by courts,which offers no deterrent to stop criminals re offending.
The penalties need to be tougher,and stay tougher.Lets hope local councils follow up their threats to evict these thugs and their families from council housing,and stop their benefits,or part of them to pay towards all the damage they have caused.
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Why not make these useless pieces of trash clean up the mess. Make them rebuild what they have destroyed.
My son is a warden in one of the prisons that house some very tough criminals. He says that the inmates have nearly as many rights as he does. I say when they riot in these jails they should be made to clean up the mess and live in the mess until it is cleaned up. Likewise with these thugs, hooligans call them what you will. Get them rebuilding what they have destroyed. Keep them fed and watered and that is all. No wages or anything.
I haven't posted on this before now as I am really seething about it all. This Theresa May woman spouting her dribble about how we need to treat the underlying cause. Do that after peoples lives and property have been rebuilt.
The police really are between the devil and the deep blue sea. Many, many of them did not join the force for this type of policing. It is the job of the armed forces to quell anarchy. I'm sure the mere appearance of the armed forces would stop a riot.
I'm getting all worked up again, so that's it from me.
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And someone of a type that certainly does not seem a member of any underclass
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8694655/UK-riots-grammar-school-girl-is-accused-of-theft.html
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Maybe we could learn a lesson from this guy?
Yes, its an old story, but if we adopted the same approach over here I reckon it`d would put off a few criminals?
http://www.policeone.com/columnists/24Seven/articles/113956-Meet-Americas-toughest-sheriff-Joe-Arpaio/
I don`t live to far from Croydon and work just as close, my Staff were worried about what was going on around our site the other day and one member of staff actually stayed at another staff members house. At work we are surrounded by all the affected areas mentioned on the news, plus all those that never got a mention and there were loads more, the media concentrated on the larger (more media worthy?) areas.
I`ve refrained from posting in regards these events because I feel so peeved off about the rubbish excuses that are being bandied about by the do-gooders, that really know absolutely nothing about real-life.
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Perhaps now we will see the end of the riots.
I hope the government is at last getting the message that most of the general public is fed up with the way that criminals seem to have more rights than victims.
They are fed up with soft sentences handed out by courts,which offers no deterrent to stop criminals re offending.
The penalties need to be tougher,and stay tougher.Lets hope local councils follow up their threats to evict these thugs and their families from council housing,and stop their benefits,or part of them to pay towards all the damage they have caused.
Agreed.
I signed a petition on the downing street website to prevent them getting benefits if they are found guilty of taking part in the riots.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi55.tinypic.com%2F2lc1lwm.jpg&hash=879db1c823f9a0542149e1161bfe47efbb1ee8e0)
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/signatures/275725/verify/pKw3qkWABTMAnpekUj6
The website petition was so popular that it crashed and is down until tomorrow but the required 100,000 signatures has been met.
Sorry, e-petitions is temporarily unavailable.
The e-petitions site is having problems at the moment. We need to temporarily suspend the creation and signing of e-petitions to allow us to make sure everything is working properly for you.
We aim to re-open the e-petitions site by Friday morning (12th August).
We're very sorry for the inconvenience this causes you.
The e-petition entitled “Convicted London rioters should loose all benefits” has now passed the threshold of 100,000 signatures and has been passed to the Backbench Business Committee to consider for debate. It will continue to be available for signature once the site is re-opened.
p.s. I just noticed a typo - the word 'loose' instead of 'lose' ;D
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Why not make these useless pieces of trash clean up the mess. Make them rebuild what they have destroyed.
My son is a warden in one of the prisons that house some very tough criminals. He says that the inmates have nearly as many rights as he does. I say when they riot in these jails they should be made to clean up the mess and live in the mess until it is cleaned up. Likewise with these thugs, hooligans call them what you will. Get them rebuilding what they have destroyed. Keep them fed and watered and that is all. No wages or anything.
I haven't posted on this before now as I am really seething about it all. This Theresa May woman spouting her dribble about how we need to treat the underlying cause. Do that after peoples lives and property have been rebuilt.
The police really are between the devil and the deep blue sea. Many, many of them did not join the force for this type of policing. It is the job of the armed forces to quell anarchy. I'm sure the mere appearance of the armed forces would stop a riot.
I'm getting all worked up again, so that's it from me.
Pretty much what I said earlier Colin,but with a little less restraint! ......
........I'm with you unky - send in the troops, set up a Guantanamo-style holding pen (in the rain, in the open) and process them really slowly. Keep them under lock and key until their case is heard - remand to prevent further re-offending is an acceptable reason. If convicted, then hard labour rebuilding destroyed properties and rebuilding people's (victim's) lives and possessions. Minimum term for such should be 10 years............
Colin
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Why is it that anyone that breaks the law "must" be in receipt of benefits?
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Why is it that anyone that breaks the law "must" be in receipt of benefits?
I'm not saying that everyone who broke the law was receiving benefits but a large percentage of them probably are as there have been interviews with masked rioters and they admit to being on benefits and are cheesed off with society.
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Why is it that anyone that breaks the law "must" be in receipt of benefits?
They all aren't,but if they are then why not hit them where it hurts.
The governments e-petition site has crashed and won't be back online till tomorrow.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions
The petition to stop rioters/looters benefits has already passed 100,000
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Why not make these useless pieces of trash clean up the mess. Make them rebuild what they have destroyed.
My son is a warden in one of the prisons that house some very tough criminals. He says that the inmates have nearly as many rights as he does. I say when they riot in these jails they should be made to clean up the mess and live in the mess until it is cleaned up. Likewise with these thugs, hooligans call them what you will. Get them rebuilding what they have destroyed. Keep them fed and watered and that is all. No wages or anything.
That is an excellent idea and it would also serve as community service.
The police really are between the devil and the deep blue sea. Many, many of them did not join the force for this type of policing. It is the job of the armed forces to quell anarchy. I'm sure the mere appearance of the armed forces would stop a riot.
Yes I see what mean about quelling anarchy.
The trouble with the armed forces making an appearance to try and prevent further anarchy is that I expect the armed forces are over-stretched as it is fighting wars in Afghanistan and Libya ???
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Why is it that anyone that breaks the law "must" be in receipt of benefits?
They all aren't,but if they are then why not hit them where it hurts.
The governments e-petition site has crashed and won't be back online till tomorrow.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions
The petition to stop rioters/looters benefits has already passed 100,000
So they riot because they are supposedly poor being on benefits .............. take their only income away and then what, wonder why they go out and steal again?
Supervised chain gangs cleaning the streets for a few months as punishment/payback would be a more constructive approach.
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So they riot because they are supposedly poor being on benefits
In some cases people are better off on benefits than in work especially if they have big families as they can claim housing benefit, child benefit, tax credits, etc
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A YOUNG Olympic ambassador has been charged with rioting after her mother saw her hurling bricks at a police car on TV.
Talented athlete Chelsea Ives, 18, who has been pictured with MPs and sports stars at the House of Commons, later boasted of having the “best day ever” as she allegedly ran amok with the mob.
Her appalled mother Adrienne turned her in, saying: “It was gut-wrenching but it was right. What could normal, honest parents do?” Ives was one of hundreds of riot suspects to appear in the dock yesterday as courts around the country staged special 24-hour sittings.
She was joined in court by a ballerina, an estate agent, a law student, a would-be social worker, a young mother with a six-week-old baby and an 11-year-old girl.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/264482
Well done to her mother,but she must be devastated seeing her daughter throw all that away...... :no:
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Perhaps now we will see the end of the riots.
I hope the government is at last getting the message that most of the general public is fed up with the way that criminals seem to have more rights than victims.
They are fed up with soft sentences handed out by courts,which offers no deterrent to stop criminals re offending.
The penalties need to be tougher,and stay tougher.Lets hope local councils follow up their threats to evict these thugs and their families from council housing,and stop their benefits,or part of them to pay towards all the damage they have caused.
Agreed.
I signed a petition on the downing street website to prevent them getting benefits if they are found guilty of taking part in the riots.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi55.tinypic.com%2F2lc1lwm.jpg&hash=879db1c823f9a0542149e1161bfe47efbb1ee8e0)
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/signatures/275725/verify/pKw3qkWABTMAnpekUj6
The website petition was so popular that it crashed and is down until tomorrow but the required 100,000 signatures has been met.
Sorry, e-petitions is temporarily unavailable.
The e-petitions site is having problems at the moment. We need to temporarily suspend the creation and signing of e-petitions to allow us to make sure everything is working properly for you.
We aim to re-open the e-petitions site by Friday morning (12th August).
We're very sorry for the inconvenience this causes you.
The e-petition entitled “Convicted London rioters should loose all benefits” has now passed the threshold of 100,000 signatures and has been passed to the Backbench Business Committee to consider for debate. It will continue to be available for signature once the site is re-opened.
p.s. I just noticed a typo - the word 'loose' instead of 'lose' ;D
A small point of order here, the petition is a total waste of time as the govt. cannot implement the idea in this case.
Article 7 of the ECHR prevents retrospectivity; you cannot suffer a punishment only thought up after a crime has been committed.
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Just my 2 cents worth, but......
How many would agree with me that Mr Cameron and his cronies have really lost the plot over this business ?
toulouse
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A small point of order here, the petition is a total waste of time as the govt. cannot implement the idea in this case.
Article 7 of the ECHR prevents retrospectivity; you cannot suffer a punishment only thought up after a crime has been committed.
The ECHR raises it's ugly head again - oh how I wish we had a referendum on leaving the EU.
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The ECHR raises it's ugly head again - oh how I wish we had a referendum on leaving the EU.
Nothing whatsoever to do with each other.
And the ECHR predates the EC/EU by several years.
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One of the saddest things to come out of these riots, excluding those who have died of course, is that there is a man in hospital in a very critical condition. He had been injured in Ealing Broadway on Monday evening, he was trying to extinguish a fire in a waste bin when he was attacked by a mob. They left him for dead, after apparently robbing him - he had no form of ID on him, wallet or mobile ........... the terrible thing is that no-one has reported him missing. How dreadful is that :(
Unfortunately he lost his fight for life.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2025079/LONDON-RIOTS-Ealing-hero-Richard-Mannington-Bowes-dies.html
An orgy of violence and sheer brutality that ended his life. Instances like this and I would consider an exception for hanging.
exo
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One of the saddest things to come out of these riots, excluding those who have died of course, is that there is a man in hospital in a very critical condition. He had been injured in Ealing Broadway on Monday evening, he was trying to extinguish a fire in a waste bin when he was attacked by a mob. They left him for dead, after apparently robbing him - he had no form of ID on him, wallet or mobile ........... the terrible thing is that no-one has reported him missing. How dreadful is that :(
Unfortunately he lost his fight for life.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2025079/LONDON-RIOTS-Ealing-hero-Richard-Mannington-Bowes-dies.html
An orgy of violence and sheer brutality that ended his life. Instances like this and I would consider an exception for hanging
I had heard on the news that he died but I didn't know that he had been tormented by the yobs for years :(
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You will no doubt have seen the Sky news video of the reporter interviewing black youths about how they stole Thousands of pounds of goods and openly speak about it on camera(but with faces covered of course).
If the reporter had arranged this interview,why wasn't the police informed and then be waiting to arrest them after they had admitted what they had done on camera.
http://news.sky.com/home/video/16049147
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You will no doubt have seen the Sky news video of the reporter interviewing black youths about how they stole Thousands of pounds of goods and openly speak about it on camera(but with faces covered of course).
If the reporter had arranged this interview,why wasn't the police informed and then be waiting to arrest them after they had admitted what they had done on camera.
http://news.sky.com/home/video/16049147
Yes good point >:(
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I saw the report of the poor man's death Exo .... so dreadfully shocking.
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Just my 2 cents worth, but......
How many would agree with me that Mr Cameron and his cronies have really lost the plot over this business ?
toulouse
Well there was/is many questions need answering.
After the first riots in Tottenham on Saturday night,why wasn't the police numbers increased then,and all officers put on a high level of alert?
What happened to police intelligence? and why wasn't social networking sites monitored sooner.
Why wasn't the pm recalled back to the UK after Saturday night......wasn't the Tottenham riots deemed not bad enough for him to return asap.
The home secretary should have immediately given the police the go ahead for strong tactics,she sat back on the fence and imo is not fit to hold the position of Home Secretary.
Whether you blame the police or the government one think is certain,the poor people who have lost their homes and businesses have been very badly let down
This problem has been simmering for a long time,and its no good shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8696283/London-riots-police-catch-up-with-shoe-looting-mother.html
The mother who was caught on camera trying on trainers she had apparently just looted from a sports shop has been arrested after The Daily Telegraph found her identity.The image of Shereka Leigh, 22, calmly inspecting and then brazenly trying on footwear in broad daylight epitomised the lawlessness which allowed thousands of stores across the capital to be looted in the aftermath of the riots.
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When police arrived she said she was just waiting to ask an assistant if they had them in a size 7 :lol: