Kitz Forum
Announcements => News Articles => Topic started by: Bowdon on June 25, 2018, 10:31:03 AM
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https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/06/openreach-reveal-next-uk-areas-for-g-fast-ultrafast-broadband.html (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/06/openreach-reveal-next-uk-areas-for-g-fast-ultrafast-broadband.html)
Openreach (BT) has announced that a further 59 locations across the United Kingdom will be the next to benefit from their on-going deployment of 330Mbps capable hybrid fibre G.fast (ITU G.9700/9701) broadband technology, which aim to cover 10 million homes and businesses by the end of 2020.
Until today the operator had only confirmed a total of 46 locations for the new service, which largely reflected the coverage of their initial large-scale G.fast pilot that now reaches more than 1 million premises passed. Since then several ISPs have launched related packages, although BT and TalkTalk remain the only major providers with a G.fast service on offer (e.g. BT Ultrafast and TalkTalk Faster 150 Fibre).
In case anybody has forgotten, G.fast works in a similar way to VDSL2 based Fibre-to-the-Cabinet (FTTC) technology by running a fibre optic cable to your local PCP Street Cabinet, which is then fitted with an extension “pod” to house the line cards (this can handle up to 48 ports, but it should eventually extend to 96). After that the G.fast service reaches your home via the existing copper cable.
The 59 New G.fast Locations (June 2018 Update)
Aberdeen Denburn, Acocks Green, Altrincham, Aylesbury, Bedford, Birmingham Central, Bishops Stortford, Boscombe, Bowes Park, Bury St. Edmunds, Bury, Byfleet, Cardiff, Carlisle, Chelmsford, Chester, Cosham, Didsbury, Erdington, Gipsy Hill, Guildford, Hampton, Harlow, Harrogate, Headingley, Heywood, Kingston, Lancaster, Leamington Spa, Leeds, Llantrisant, Maidstone, Market Harborough, Mile End, Morley, Narborough, North Finchley, Paignton, Plymouth, Rugby, Shipley, Slough, South Kensington, Southampton, Southend Town, St Albans, Stockton Heath, Swadlincote, Tamworth, Taunton, Telford Wellington, Tunbridge Wells, Walthamstow, Weston Super Mare, Windsor, Wolverhampton, Woodhouse (Berkshire), Woodley, York.
Maybe I'm under estimating the amount of work that needs to be done, but I thought G.fast deployment would have been a lot faster than this, especially when they are only attaching pods to existing cabinets. I thought it would just be a process of going to all the cabs and adding the pod on?
And why is York getting G.fast so early on when they already have FTTP?
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OpenReach actively target areas with good competitor coverage. York FTTP is Talktalks, not OpenReach's.
It is just a case of bolting on a pod at the cabinet. Activation can be delayed waiting for exchange Harrisburg being upgraded.
There are thousands of pods to install though. This is while OpenReach are also deploying FTTP in other areas, their FTTPod orders and there's still some FTTC being deployed. Throughout all these new deployments they still have to maintain the existing network.
The aim is 10 million homes and businesses by 2020. They are on target to meet this.
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My cab's had a G.Fast pod for months but still not activated on my line. Openreach are taking their sweet time to allow orders ::)
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Not in my area, and I would suspect I'd be over or borderline for the 500m range.
So hopefully, they may go full FTTP, or FTTDp......
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Same here, my town isn't listed and there are perhaps two or three areas in the town (one about two streets away from me) which are already FTTP. I'm hopeful this means while I will have to wait a bit longer that I could be in a queue for FTTP later on. Even if G.fast arrived here I doubt I would be able to get it as I may well be just outside of the range.
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Who care about rubbish g.fast? Also rip off far too expensive. I am happy stay with FTTC 80/20 for next five more years.
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Who care about rubbish g.fast? Also rip off far too expensive. I am happy stay with FTTC 80/20 for next five more years.
Nice if you can get 80/20, but if not it makes the g.fast roll out even more of a farce.
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Surprised to see Aberdeen on the list. I wonder if it will eventually make its way to my exchange in the near future. I wonder if having
Virgin now deploying FTTP in the area, This has spurred them on to compete?
Edit: Vodafone, Not Virgin
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Surprised to see Aberdeen on the list. I wonder if it will eventually make its way to my exchange in the near future. I wonder if having Virgin now deploying FTTP in the area, This has spurred them on to compete?
are they? or is it still just FTTC with coax from the cab to your house like 99% of the virgin network is.
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are they? or is it still just FTTC with coax from the cab to your house like 99% of the virgin network is.
I'm unsure about the specifics of it to be honest. It's a joint venture with Cityfibre. And it is Vodafone, Not virgin as I incorrectly stated above.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/06/cityfibre-assign-development-boss-to-fttp-broadband-in-aberdeen.html
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seems to be a confusing project.
that link seems to be all about CityFibre (with no mention of Virgin), and then says the register your interest with Vodafone!
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Yes, I did say in the previous post it was my fault in the confusion between Virgin and Vodafone. It's a joint venture between cityfibre and Vodafone.
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are they? or is it still just FTTC with coax from the cab to your house like 99% of the virgin network is.
Protect Lightning deployments by Virgin in new areas are full FTTP, with a coax conversion done at the property.
It's much less than 99% coax.
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98% ? ;D
point was that most people think that Virgin is a true fibre network, when in reality it's no different the Openreach network (albeit coax from the cab than the just copper). that's clever advertising from Virgin though that has resulted in that.
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I've got a proper fibre to my house wall, where it is then converted to coax, all new areas are fibre, only areas where they are extending an existing coax area are done with coax I believe.
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Who care about rubbish g.fast? Also rip off far too expensive. I am happy stay with FTTC 80/20 for next five more years.
... and just hope it doesn't do what mine has. Which is take yet another massive hit due to cross talk - over 7Mbps in one fell swoop due to neighbour getting vdsl a few days ago. I'm now syncing below my MGAL and thats a total headline loss so far of 42Mbps from x-talk. :'(
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Nice if you can get 80/20, but if not it makes the g.fast roll out even more of a farce.
Indeed. There's a heck of a lot of people who won't be able to get g.fast even if it was at the cab.
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Ouch! That is a fair amount of speed drop over the years Kitz. Painful!!
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:no: Sorry to hear of your VDSL drop Kitz. Mine was still ongoing strong still at full max 80/20 for 145 days since DLM reset last February 1st by PN.
145 Day(s) 09:17:33
Mode VDSL2
Traffic Type PTM
Status Up
Link Power State L0
Downstream Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis) On On
SNR Margin (dB) 5.9 13.7
Attenuation (dB) 11.3 0.0
Output Power (dBm) 12.4 -1.3
Attainable Rate (Kbps) 80541 25031
Rate (Kbps) 79999 19999
B (# of bytes in Mux Data Frame) 235 237
M (# of Mux Data Frames in an RS codeword) 1 1
T (# of Mux Data Frames in an OH sub-frame) 0 42
R (# of redundancy bytes in the RS codeword) 10 16
S (# of data symbols over which the RS code word spans) 0.0939 0.3781
L (# of bits transmitted in each data symbol) 20962 5374
D (interleaver depth) 8 1
I (interleaver block size in bytes) 246 127
N (RS codeword size) 246 254
Delay (msec) 0 0
INP (DMT symbol) 48.00 0.00
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Indeed. My line isn't looking very happy since my new neighbour got FTTC on the 22nd. Upstream SNRM has taken a big hit too
DLM would have got me for sure a couple of days ago (23 Jun) if I didn't have DSLstats alerts. CRCs went mental and I clocked up circa 480 Err/Secs in about 15 mins before I took the connection down otherwise my sync speed would now be even worse. SNRM looks like saw teeth.
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Interesting!
Is there any way to resolve such a speed drop or is it just a case of tough luck?
Intrigued about the saw tooth explanation on your SNR. I noticed mine was like that yesterday but only on the upstream. It wasnt moving by much but by 0.2db up and down every few minutes.
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you can post/pm me that but I think it's how the first 3 days are ::) if after 7 days it still continued then you turn it off from button & let it sit for 31 minutes. about the SRA if it's not supported it's detrimental to be enabled as I've said before. if your sync speed didn't change, it can mean lack of support [has to change to indicate that the DSLAM supports it]. if it did, there's still this thread: http://whrl.pl/Reo43y so what I want to say is enable it only if your ISP stated to support it. so, next time you turn off the device, if you want to change the setting you can unplug the dsl cable and turn it on to change, then back off & plug the dsl cable back.
edit: I think your line should support it, by this thread; http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/zen/3817320-seamless-rate-adaptation-sra-on-bt-wbc.html
over time you'll note if your sync rate ever varied or it stayed the same and then decide, no hurry.
edit2: also something that looks like sra but isn't... https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,7306.msg156554.html#msg156554
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... and just hope it doesn't do what mine has. Which is take yet another massive hit due to cross talk - over 7Mbps in one fell swoop due to neighbour getting vdsl a few days ago. I'm now syncing below my MGAL and thats a total headline loss so far of 42Mbps from x-talk. :'(
Hopefully your line should benefit significantly from vectoring when (if?) its rolled out nationwide.
Is there any reason its still only in BDUK areas? Is there extra equipment needed in the cabs like a vectoring controller or some such?
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Mine bit slightly different. When the downstream SNR are lower, the Attainable Rate (Kbps) will reduced, not increased. Before SNR on Attainable Rate (Kbps) downstream was 9.9dB @ 89238K but now SNR on Attainable Rate (Kbps) downstream was 5.9dB @ 80534K. Because I thought reduced SNR mean higher Attainable Rate (Kbps) but I was wrong. I guess one more new customer go live with VDSL will reduced my sync rate of below 79999k sooner or later for the first time since the fibre cabinet went first live back in February 2014. Just over 4 years now.
1st Feb 2018:
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.3 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Attenuation rate (kbps): 89238 30218
Connection speed (kbps): 79999 19999
SNR margin (dB): 9.9 15.1
Power (dBm): 12.5 -0.9
Interleave depth: 8 1
INP: 48.00 0
G.INP: Enabled Not Enabled
Now as of today:
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.3 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Attenuation rate (kbps): 80534 24959
Connection speed (kbps): 79999 19999
SNR margin (dB): 5.9 13.7
Power (dBm): 12.4 -1.3
Interleave depth: 8 1
INP: 48.00 0
G.INP: Enabled Not Enabled
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lower SNRM can indicate a lower target margin but the thing is the modem displays SNRM not SNR so need to look for signs whether it was an SNR change or target change
or you synced at that speed with 9db target , as you know the attainable calculation is sketchy
i assume the SNRM is indicative of how much is reserved so given your very low attenuation [11db] i suppose you were able to sync at that speed with 9db target
edit: so higher target margin is better, if someone can cap his connection at it: so, if your target was indeed 9db and reduced to 6db that could indeed mean your line fared worse [less SNR] & needed 6db to maintain the sync speed.
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Hopefully your line should benefit significantly from vectoring when (if?) its rolled out nationwide.
Is there any reason its still only in BDUK areas? Is there extra equipment needed in the cabs like a vectoring controller or some such?
I thought Openreach are suppose to be trailing vectoring / target SRM 3dB in most case? My parents line got 3.1dB (must be target 3dB to increase their sync rate jump from 58633K to 64589K)
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you can post/pm me that but I think it's how the first 3 days are ::) if after 7 days it still continued then you turn it off from button & let it sit for 31 minutes. about the SRA if it's not supported it's detrimental to be enabled as I've said before. if your sync speed didn't change, it can mean lack of support [has to change to indicate that the DSLAM supports it]. if it did, there's still this thread: http://whrl.pl/Reo43y so what I want to say is enable it only if your ISP stated to support it. so, next time you turn off the device, if you want to change the setting you can unplug the dsl cable and turn it on to change, then back off & plug the dsl cable back.
edit: I think your line should support it, by this thread; http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/zen/3817320-seamless-rate-adaptation-sra-on-bt-wbc.html
over time you'll note if your sync rate ever varied or it stayed the same and then decide, no hurry.
edit2: also something that looks like sra but isn't... https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,7306.msg156554.html#msg156554
Hi Spring, I've left it disabled. My line needs stability for now with my old modem hanging up so I'll leave it disabled unless I discover something that states it works on Zen FTTC.
Best not to clutter up this original thread but we can discuss anything on my thread here ;D:
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,21683.0.html
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Hopefully your line should benefit significantly from vectoring when (if?) its rolled out nationwide.
No hope for me on an ECI cab. No vectoring. No SRA. No G.INP :'(
Both the periodic oscillations and the daily high spike of CRCs is a long-standing issue that can occur anytime between 7am to mid-day.
Every so often the CRCs will get stuck & Err Secs will rack up a few hundred every 5 mins until I power down the modem. Turning off the modem for a period of time doesn't always clear the oscillations - I switched it off for a couple of hours yesterday. If I didn't have DSLstats alarms set and was with an ISP that didn't use Speed profile, I would be constantly within the grip of DLM and INP because I don't even have the availability of G.INP.
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Its a wonder people haven't resorted to arson with these ECI cabs....
Are you still using a zyxel modem kitz? No better luck with a lantiq box?
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No hope for me on an ECI cab. No vectoring. No SRA. No G.INP :'(
Any chance of virgin media cable to switch over? As I know Cable doesn't have any restricted eg: no DLM at all. But, don't know what VM are like in your area such as congestion network?
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Any chance of virgin media cable to switch over? As I know Cable doesn't have any restricted eg: no DLM at all. But, don't know what VM are like in your area such as congestion network?
they don't need DLM.
their network does a pretty good good of keeping your connection way below advertised speeds anyway ;D ;D
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Are you still using a zyxel modem kitz? No better luck with a lantiq box?
Yes. The Zyxel 8324 outperforms any other modem Ive tried and best of the BCMs. Higher sync and less errors.
Lantiq chipsets give >6Mbps less than BCMs on this line.
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Any chance of virgin media cable to switch over?
No VM in this area at all.
No sign of g.fast, but doubt it wouldn't be any help even if it was here. Whilst I can see the exchange from my window, cab is in different location further away.
Weird in a way. Always used to get best speeds ie full 24/2.4 Annex_M. Full adsl2+. Used to get full 80/20 with what I thought was plenty to spare, but crosstalk killed that. If I didn't watch the line, DLM would without doubt get me and I'd be lucky to get 60Mbps. But I'm not losing sleep over it - not worth it. I can do all I need with the current speed and am happy as long as I can keep interleaving at bay. My situation is still a lot better than others.
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@kitz, hopefully you might get a surprise FTTP will go in your flavour soon from OR if OR knew that G.Fast is no benefits to your property at all, instead they go for FTTP for u one day. Who know?
Mine probably won't be g.fast afterall, it been pulled out for no reason, no explained but I ain't bother anyway. I just continue watch Netflix, surf the internet, checking email etc and my CCTV are all working fine.
There is G.Fast ongoing activated around in Wellington Telford. My mate got G.Fast activated last week start off 300/42 but now drop to 112/10. Got issues with g.fast from BT Smart Hub :(
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For a thread started with a subject line of "Openreach Name Next 59 UK Areas for G.fast Ultrafast Broadband" it has now meandered way off course. :D
At some point I will need to split this thread into two but, at present, I am undecided where to make the split, where to place the new thread and what its subject line should be. :-\
Helpful suggestions (and un-licked kitteh-treats) will be appreciated . . .
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https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,21826.msg376571.html#msg376571
Seems a good place to draw the line.
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Hopefully your line should benefit significantly from vectoring when (if?) its rolled out nationwide.
Is there any reason its still only in BDUK areas? Is there extra equipment needed in the cabs like a vectoring controller or some such?
Yes additional hardware is required.
I don't think there will ever be a national rollout of vectoring for FTTC.
OpenReach finished their vectoring trials a few years ago and nothing came of it.
They don't want VDSL2 to be above 80Mb (they could make it 100Mb tomorrow by removing their cap) so a big benefit of vectoring would be wasted.
ECI cabinets don't do system level vectoring. So if OpenReach did rollout vectoring there would be even more of a 2 tier network.
It's only used in BDUK areas because it helps raise distant properties over the 24Mb SuperFast targets.
Deploying vectoring nationwide would be a huge expense for absolutely zero extra income.
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>Deploying vectoring nationwide would be a huge expense for absolutely zero extra income.
Good point. Is there any money to be made for BT out of G.Fast anyway? I realise that I have no idea what the answer to that basic question is.
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Yes it's a whole new product, higher pricing, considerably higher speeds.
The problem with VDSL2 vectoring is they can't charge extra as it can't be rolled out to everyone.
Also if you used to get 80Mb but crosstalk has knocked you down to 60Mb I'm sure you would be annoyed at the prospect of being charged more to get your 80Mb back.
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Though I'll probably never get G.fast from my ECI cabinet, I think we should encourage those who can get it to go for it, and then it'll remove a FTTC connection from the main cabinet. If I'm lucky it might be the FTTC connection to mine and I'll get less crosstalk.
Not that I have an ulterior motive or anything ;D
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The manufacturer of the VDSL cabinet isn't an issue for G.fast.
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What is the price for g.fast?
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g.fast price is varies from isp's to isp's. AAISP, Cerberus, TalkTalk and BT are the isps offer g.fast!