Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTP Rollout => Topic started by: Alex Atkin UK on August 09, 2019, 01:50:53 AM
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So it appears my exhange is in the next batch of Fibre First rollouts which is potentially exciting but I will assume they will ignore my area, as Virgin did (which gives Openreach very little incentive unless 5G rolls out here), for now.
I'm on the largest exchange in Sheffield so it seems unlikely they are going to do the entire catchment area as its huge, although it would be pretty sweet if they did and a large chunk of it does have FTTC already so the fibre nodes are already there.
Does anyone know how this has worked previously? Is there a typical pattern to how they decide where to cover, other than businesses?
My estimate for FTTPoD was insane, considering if the ducting is clear it should be a relatively easy run from the nearest node. (although I don't actually know where that is, any clues?)
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No clues to the position of the Aggregation Node. Your FTTPoD quote should have given an indication of the distance from it though.
An Aggregation Node will usually serve 3 or 4 FTTC cabinets and can cover around 1400 homes for FTTP.
Usually the Agg Node is next 1 of the the FTTC cabinets it serves but can also be inbetween 2 of them.
Fibre First is rolled out on an exchange by exchange basis but you are correct that they won't cover every property on the exchange.
They will do a large majority that they can reach though.
Any idea why Virgin skipped your street? Any unique about it to surrounding streets?
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Sheffield Council resurfaced a bunch of footpaths as part of their tree destruction programme. They refused to allow VM to dig these areas so much of Sheffield was missed during the recent rollout.
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My area it was more that it got left out after Telewest took over Yorkshire Cable and ceased all expansion. Then they finally started the other end of my road and it stopped again when they re-structured to Virgin Media.
Also I believe they ARE allowed to dig up the new pavements/roads, they just have to then pay to resurface the whole thing again which is likely too expensive to be worth their while. Although its not like SCC are even enforcing this rule, plenty of cases where the new surface has channels dug out of it. Plus Virgin may have a case anyway as in lots of places Amey have covered their junction points in the pavement with spray on tarmac.
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It doesn't show up on the fibre first map yet, otherwise you can see what area's they are planning to cover, although doesn't mean they will do all properties in that are.
https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/fibre-first
Select any area from the drop down and then they are seem to appear on the map.
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I'm on an ECI cabinet which may also be another reason they targeted this exchange and actually be in my favour here.
I also can't find it now, but I think my FTTPoD quote said I was 400m from the node. The only thing which goes against them doing here is the lack of competition from Virgin, but I do see a few MiFi connections in the area so with the chance of 5G making it even more viable, I can see why that may also make them consider it a viable area.
Plus when I had my second line fitted the engineer took to hook about half an hour to hook it up, which makes me wonder if there's an issue finding decent pairs as surely it shouldn't take that long.
A lot of speculation I know, just trying to remain optimistic as I'd definitely be in favour of going Gigabit and calling it a day (though not at current pricing, 330Mbit will do). No more wondering if the sync rate is going to drop again. I've already lost 3Mbit off my main line over the last few months, and 1Mbit off my second just this morning.
Also with climate change, I'd kinda like one less way for lightening to blow things up. Our chimney got hit once and despite being several feet away from the line the capacitive coupling blew up the modem, router and every NIC. (granted that was BNC networking days so it had a direct path across to every PC) That was mighty impressive though as it was an actual modem back then so it managed to surge from the phone line to the serial port, blew the IO chip and out the PCI NIC. Its fascinating and scary how far a surge can go, and perhaps more fascinating that my line worked so well for VDSL after that kind of abuse.
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Curious, this expansion pod has appeared on my cabinet.
(https://csdprojects.co.uk/forums/Intake%20Cabinet%2012.jpg)
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That's a G.Fast pod.
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That's a G.Fast pod.
That's what I was thinking, not exactly "Fibre-First" now is it!
I guess it might mean my street ISN'T getting FTTP which would kinda suck, although better than being stuck with the ECI cabinet next to this.
I wonder if they are thinking they could move some people onto G.FAST and others onto FTTP and remove the ECI cabinet entirely?
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Unrelated to Fibre First.
G.Fast in Sheffield was announced in 2018 long before Fibre First.
I wonder if they are thinking they could move some people onto G.FAST and others onto FTTP and remove the ECI cabinet entirely?
They can't run G.Fast without the ECI cabinet so that isn't possible either. It uses the DSLAMs power supply.
The ECI cabinet isn't going anywhere.
As mentioned in other threads Fibre First will not cover the whole of Sheffield.
Specific areas, on an exchange by exchange basis.
There's huge chunks of Edinburgh that were covered with G.Fast then later Fibre First came along.
Some properties can get 80Mb FTTC, 330Mb G.Fast and 330Mb FTTP.
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My exchange was NOT on the list to get G.Fast but IS on the list to have work start on Fibre First by the end of this month. The timing is very suspect.
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Initial G.Fast exchanges in Sheffield.
Locations in Sheffield set to benefit include parts of the following wards: Broomhill & Sharrow Vale, Burngreave, City Ward, Crookes & Crosspool, Fulwood, Hillsborough, Manor Castle, Nether Edge & Sharrow, Park & Arbourthorne and Walkley
If your exchange isn't on that list that's not unusual.
Fibre First is FTTP only.
Sheffield was announced to get G.Fast 18 months ago and while they have scaled back their coverage targets significantly they still have more to deploy than the announced exchanges to meet targets.
I've seen OpenReach roll out G.Fast to an area then months later blanket cover it with FTTP.
They did this on multiple cabinets on multiple exchanges in Edinburgh, which is in the same situation as Sheffield.
It seems the 2 rollouts are completely uncoordinated and I wouldn't be surprised if there was no correlation between the the G.Fast pod and Fibre First.
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Initial G.Fast exchanges in Sheffield.
If your exchange isn't on that list that's not unusual.
Fibre First is FTTP only.
Sheffield was announced to get G.Fast 18 months ago and while they have scaled back their coverage targets significantly they still have more to deploy than the announced exchanges to meet targets.
I've seen OpenReach roll out G.Fast to an area then months later blanket cover it with FTTP.
They did this on multiple cabinets on multiple exchanges in Edinburgh, which is in the same situation as Sheffield.
It seems the 2 rollouts are completely uncoordinated and I wouldn't be surprised if there was no correlation between the the G.Fast pod and Fibre First.
Quite a bizarre way to work as in theory they could end up enabling FTTP BEFORE G.fast has even gone live, which makes no sense.
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We're supposed to be fibre first with the fttp work currently in progress yet yesterday I spotted a second fttc cabinet being installed.
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We're supposed to be fibre first with the fttp work currently in progress yet yesterday I spotted a second fttc cabinet being installed.
There are considerations to be taken in when planning a fibre PON, one of which is the head-end capacity and the amount of fibres available between there and 'Fibre Agg'.
Finances will dictate whether a new spine cable be blown in, or the alternative solution is to utilise the X2 FTTC Cab, basically making that the new head-end.
It's not simply as cut & dried as that, but in nutshell that new Cab could be part of the solution I mention above ??. TBH, the X2 solution is more likely to be used in far-reaching rural premises, but is an option nontheless regardless of geography. :-)
Just for info really.
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Thanks for the reply BS, the cabinet in question is NDRAM2, which is very close to the Ramsgate exchange. Many eci cabs round here now have Huawei twins.
I've also seen a roadworks notice by BT Openreach for the sighting of a welfare unit near our estate (which is DIG) for the next six months, I can only think this is for the fttp install, VM had one there when they did their install.
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Apparently my exchange IS ECI hell. https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=40178&cabinets=12666
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I've also seen a roadworks notice by BT Openreach for the sighting of a welfare unit near our estate (which is DIG) for the next six months, I can only think this is for the fttp install, VM had one there when they did their install.
Are you seeing much progress for FTTP rollout in Ramsgate yet Ronski? I regularly check Roadworks.org but don't really see much sign of any progress yet - just wondering when it's all going to kick off!
I do note Woodchurch in Manston, and Plucks Gutter (both off Minster Ramsgate exchange) have been lit up for FTTP. The overhead fibre runs straight past my DP (with a Track Joint on the same pole) in Monkton as it goes down to Plucks Gutter - you'd have thought they would have enabled our little area of 15 properties... but naaaah (we all get around 20-25mbit down), bit short sighted if you ask me!! :(
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I look on the new roadworks site but the only thing I've seen is for the sighting of the welfare unit behind Tesco's extra. That must be annoying have the fibre run straight past.
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Seems it might not be g.fast after all:
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/8589-40-more-exchanges-with-some-g-fast-coverage
Another new development is that some cabinets are seeing VDSL2 side pods appear on the green PCP cabinet and these VDSL2 sidepods are almost visually identical to the G.fast pods. So if you do see a side pod appear it may not be for G.fast but to allow for ports of VDSL2 capacity.
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I noticed my exchange is on that list. I know the g.fast pod went on the the cabinet a while back and I'm outside of the range.
What I don't understand is why OR are adding all these g.fast pods on to old technology that is going to be replaced by full fibre in the relative near future? Wouldn't it have been better to just tweak vdsl profiles or would that have required a physical upgrade too?
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Hi All,
Is this at all related to City Fibre?
I have been absent for quite some time & I have lost touch with any more recent developments.
City Fibre have vey recently installed some cabling/fibre into a chamber directly outside my house, but all they could/would tell me was that it is supposed to be able to provide 'super fast' broadband speeds,
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Fibre First is an Openreach initiative for installing FTTP, yes they finally seem to have accepted FTTP is the way to go :)
If you go to this page https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/fibre-first and scroll there is a map where you can select your nearest city, note it doesn't matter what city you select as selecting any city seems to populate the whole map and then it's just a case of zooming in to where you want to look.
City Fibre is also installing lots of true FTTP in what they call Gigabit Cities (https://www.cityfibre.com/gigabit-cities/), as are various other companies now.
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Well THIS is promising, the checker has updated:
Good news – we’ll be upgrading your area to Full Fibre (Fibre to the Premises - FTTP) soon.
I mean granted "soon" in Openreach speak could be over a year, but it does seem to suggest my street is planned to be included.
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Alex, is that the BT Wholesale checker or the link I posted above?
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The one above.
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Well THIS is promising, the checker has updated:
Good news – we’ll be upgrading your area to Full Fibre (Fibre to the Premises - FTTP) soon.
I mean granted "soon" in Openreach speak could be over a year, but it does seem to suggest my street is planned to be included.
In my experience, from identifying an area (usually 120 dwellings or less per PON), to being ready to 'customer ready' .... takes around 2 months.
Most of the work you won't see (such as the planning stages), but once you start to see the guys on-site 'Test rodding' between work-points to identify free ducts, or whether civils are required, the process will generally take 3-4 weeks.
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Your area isn't the norm that I see BS.
At least 9-12 months was more the norm for fibre first in Edinburgh.
Some of the Fibre First exchange areas they are finishing in Edinburgh right now were announced some 18 months ago and aren't all going to be finished in the next couple months.
Don't think I've ever seen any area live 2 months after being announced/showing as FTTP coming on the checker.
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In my experience, from identifying an area (usually 120 dwellings or less per PON), to being ready to 'customer ready' .... takes around 2 months.
Most of the work you won't see (such as the planning stages), but once you start to see the guys on-site 'Test rodding' between work-points to identify free ducts, or whether civils are required, the process will generally take 3-4 weeks.
Well the original announcement at the end of July was "starting in the next three months".
Three months had already passed BEFORE they updated the map to say "starting in the next three months". :-\
Now granted they aren't the best at keeping things up-to-date, but it certainly doesn't appear like they started yet. There is nothing on one.network to suggest any roadworks, although presumably that won't happen until they have done extensive rodding to determine which areas need blockages clearing, etc.
To be fair, if this all lines up with being ready just after the new pricing tiers come in, that could be pretty sweet. Although I'm about 2KM from the exchange, so not sure if/how that impacts the time scale. I'm certainly not the furthest away, I believe my exchange is the largest in Sheffield, presumably why it was chosen.
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Your area isn't the norm that I see BS.
At least 9-12 months was more the norm for fibre first in Edinburgh.
Some of the Fibre First exchange areas they are finishing in Edinburgh right now were announced some 18 months ago and aren't all going to be finished in the next couple months.
Don't think I've ever seen any area live 2 months after being announced/showing as FTTP coming on the checker.
I have no idea whether terminology of these roll-outs differs .... but being part of the 'Fibre Cities' programme personally, my post still stands as far as my experience goes, j0hn.
Again, the site-checkers that you or members of Joe Public see, will be different from what I see.
From the original blue-print to fully commissioned it takes approx. 2-3 months for each PON (around 120 premises).
Yes, of course there's always grey areas, there always are .... such as MDU's (Multiple Dwelling Units), where the rules and regs (and wayleaves) change .... but on the whole .... !!
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Alex .... I hear you and understand your issue .... but I don't have any involvement in public trackers, sites, estimators etc .... I just know the actual 'build' side of things I'm afraid ... ie: From paper to provision.
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Alex .... I hear you and understand your issue .... but I don't have any involvement in public trackers, sites, estimators etc .... I just know the actual 'build' side of things I'm afraid ... ie: From paper to provision.
No problem, its good to know that once they actually start the physical work that its all hands on deck. Its a large area covered, I'd imagine it will take some time and considering the time of year, weather and holidays no doubt hamper things a bit.
My exchange covers approximately 30,000 premises, so were talking ~250 PONs, at 2-3 months per PON. Doesn't that mean you'd have to do up to 32 concurrently to get them finished in 2 years?
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I'm not involved in the work distribution as such, but I can't argue with your figures.
We have an enormous workforce of contractors (Morrisons, Telent, Lightsource, Kelly's etc etc), that swamp the PON's with people, once they receive the estimate numbers from the planners.
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Don't they just! They light up exchange areas with street works to replace poles, unblock ducts and get access to carriageway chambers when they start on them.
Most of an exchange gets done in a few weeks.
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Ooooh it starts, duct unblocking showing up on one.network now. :p
Why no, I don't have anything better to do than a blow by blow of how quickly they roll out Fibre.
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From the original blue-print to fully commissioned it takes approx. 2-3 months for each PON (around 120 premises).
Yes, of course there's always grey areas, there always are .... such as MDU's (Multiple Dwelling Units), where the rules and regs (and wayleaves) change .... but on the whole .... !!
Please excuse my confusion but what are you calling a PON here BS?
PON usually means the area served by a single OLT port. Splitting to 128 premises is pushing optical budgets, doesn't really save that much money in the grand scheme and is potentially a bad idea when gigabit services are released and uptake increases.
Normal build specifications are up to 32 premises per PON though it can be pushed harder with higher power optics.
If the entire new build estate I will be living on is covered by a single port that port is in for some congestion come April :lol:
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That is exactly what I mean by PON, too.
However, with a few tweaks. (You mention two figures for PON ... 128 and 32).
The regs around planning for a PON, or 'Spliiter Node' if you prefer, is 120 THP (Total homes passed). Each SASA is planned for 30 THP, but there is capacity for 32 as you say .... however, that requires managers authorisation to add one further THP, and his managers approval to take the last one ... so most jobs are planned to the 30 THP.
Yes, there are different power optics such as B+ or C+, but these are optimised based on distance rather than THP. :)
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That makes perfect sense and my neighbours on the all FTTP estate will be happy. You need a couple of ports spare just in case one goes bad.
Thank you, Sir!
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Looks like things are happening in Ramsgate as well, lots of roadworks scheduled to clear ducts for spine cabling, even mentions PON.
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Another one popped up today even closer to me, looks like they are working their way furthest away from the exchange inwards.
You honestly wouldn't expect so many blockages considering these must have been cleared when FTTC was put in, but I guess with all that rain we have had, land shifting is inevitable.
At least it shouldn't be like when Digital Region rolled out, they got delayed months due to hitting hard rock laying their ducting and needing to order specialised cutters. Still sad that network was so badly managed its just left to rot now.
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A reminder that the 'spine' cable only had to go to cabinets for FTTC, ducts were cleared to aggregation nodes then they just needed to find paths to each PCP. Now they're having to deploy higher fibre count cables and the spine is going much deeper in.
To feed the cabinets that serve this address they had to take a different duct route from the most direct one. Wouldn't be surprised if there were a fair amount of workarounds and use of very small sub-duct.
An awful lot more unblocking of ducts to come: wait until they start on the access section feeding the chambers that in turn feed individual properties. ;)
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Does Traffic Management Only suggest areas they are blowing fibre? I'd imagine if they are using those trailers with large spools it would make sense.
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It can mean that they need to install traffic lights at roads that aren't being worked on in order to control traffic flow. The traffic management may be related to another item of work within the carriageway nearby.
Much of the time blowing fibre through carriageway chambers would be marked as safe access to underground structures.
Using big trailers with big spools of fibre for footway chambers would be something they'd try to avoid to avoid having to pay permit / roadworks fees.
However you probably know this area better than I do. If there's not enough room on pavement/verge and they are deploying a big stretch of spine subduct traffic management will be required.
Either way if there're no adjacent roadworks that are excavation it is indeed install of underground infrastructure whether PON kit, fibre blowing or subduct, which is nice.
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Ah I think I can see what they are doing, they have traffic management on the main roads as there are several blockages in the duct along a specific road.
I really shouldn't look at these things when my vertigo is playing up, my brain clearly wasn't working as its pretty obvious they are all related to each other with overlapping dates.
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Each SASA is planned for 30 THP, but there is capacity for 32 as you say .... however, that requires managers authorisation to add one further THP, and his managers approval to take the last one ... so most jobs are planned to the 30 THP.
I hadn't really thought about this before: are people aware what SASA means?
Splitter Array Sub-Assembly.
Splitter array sub-assemblies are assemblies of trays which store and protect optical splitters whereby incoming and outgoing fibers are stored per single circuit on separate organizer trays ready for splicing into the network.
Splitter trays.
There are also SOSAs - Splice Only Sub-Assembly. I think you can gather what those are.
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Its all gone quiet now after that duct clearing work. Only seeing one BT job on one.network in the area and its for repairing a cable across the road into a maisonette that they foolishly keep laying loose in the grass (its buried, but just barely).
Site still says "to start in next 3 months", despite it now approaching five and a half months since that was initially the goal on the Fibre First document.
So everything is happening as expected really. :lol:
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I'm seeing a few jobs for 1 way poly duct, is this to convert properties with direct-ground cables into FTTP ready state?
Also, why is it 1 way poly duct? What makes it 1 way?
Interestingly the repair across the road for an in-ground cable does not mention replacing it with ducting, you'd think they would considering. That whole side of the street is probably laid directly in the ground so going to be a fun job converting for fibre. At least its paved not tarmac, although I suspect its laid in the grass verge.
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I'm seeing a few jobs for 1 way poly duct, is this to convert properties with direct-ground cables into FTTP ready state?
Also, why is it 1 way poly duct? What makes it 1 way?
Interestingly the repair across the road for an in-ground cable does not mention replacing it with ducting, you'd think they would considering. That whole side of the street is probably laid directly in the ground so going to be a fun job converting for fibre. At least its paved not tarmac, although I suspect its laid in the grass verge.
Don't be fooled by the description (as most people do ;D ) ....... 1-way duct is just normal duct, usually duct 54 (Google it).
I'd be surprised if they were installing this to each premises, it would usually be used in the network ... ie: between boxes, between box and DP etc .... a smaller duct such as 'Gabacom tubing' would usually be used to get from box to premises (toby boxes).
Try not to fret over what they are doing regarding the civils ... there's a lot of work goes on in the background to ensure it's the correct solution. ;)
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I know the time scale is "how long is a piece of string", as much as I'd love to get this tomorrow.
Its mostly curiosity about why these jobs are showing up where they are and what the purpose might be. I hardly leave the house due to a random sleep pattern and anxiety, so while it might seem unhealthy to be dwelling on the details, for me its not. If my health problems hadn't been a major barrier (funnily enough people don't like employees who run to their own timetable), I'd be working in IT, so trying to work out of the details of this sort of thing is very much what I'm interesting in.
Like I said, the other side of the road from me is ductless, at least running up to each maisonette. So it should be pretty obvious once anything interesting is happening as presumably they would have to run new duct up to each building? I'm certainly going to notice that from the CCTV on the front door. ::)
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Well apparently the other side of the road IS ducted, had a talk with the engineer and they were replacing the wire as they had ran out of working pairs for a new line.
In other news, the Fibre First site has updated to Build in Progress. ;D That's something I guess.
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Had a walk today and realised I completely misjudged things.
All the lines on this side of the street come from the duct down the other side, which explains why I've gotten hit so hard with crosstalk over the last year or so. It splits off to my DP at the road junction but interesting, there is no access to the duct at all this side of the road.
So I'd imagine its going to need the pavement digging up at the bottom of the pole to route the fibre up the pole?
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. . . I'd imagine its going to need the pavement digging up at the bottom of the pole to route the fibre up the pole?
If I have a correct mental image, from your description of the situation, then that should be a quick and simple task.
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Depends how complex it is to get permission to dig up below the pole, but it does serve most of my side of the street. I wonder if I will see a "build BT chamber in footway" job pop up for this?
There are maisonettes down one side that will need ducting, but those are all in earth so should be very easy.
I'm trying to convince myself that as I have two lines and said I'm interested, they will do here first. ;) Despite the fact I'm 2KM from the exchange so probably going to take a while to reach here.
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After finding out INTAKE was put on hold due to unexpected difficulties (and concerned its now not listed on the Fibre First map at all), I e-mailed Openreach and was somewhat surprised at a fairly swift response from the Infrastructure Solutions Executive Level Complaints Team.
Had a call today from them and they are going to chase up with the project leader to find out what the delay is.
Also found out the plan was supposed to be to have it finished by next March, which seems awfully fast for such a large area.
Its really about having a rough time scale so I know if I should renew my FTTC contracts or not.
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Bad news:
Good morning Alex,
Many thanks for speaking with me this morning.
As discussed, the good news is that your premise is included in the Fibre Cities programme , however works are not due to commence until March 2022.
This is due to the fact that extensive power and electrical services at the exchange, need to be overhauled and until this is completed we are unable to commence any FTTP build in the area.
It is at least something to look forward to in the near future.
Thank you for your enquiry , I wish you and your family well and will now arrange to close your case.
Many thanks
Kind regards
Lydia Abbs
Infrastructure Solutions Executive Level Complaints Team
Openreach.
:-\ :no: :'( :'( :'(
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Hi
Stuff like that happens unfortunately, at least you received some indicative dates and a reason so can plan ahead with any contract renewals or other alternatives that may come your way.
Regards
Phil
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Contract renewals was exactly why I chased this up as no point paying full price for Plusnet if there is zero chance of FTTP in the next 18 months.
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Just checked the September 2020 PDF and it seems Intake is back on the "build start within next 3 months", so fingers crossed this is FINALLY happening.
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Hi Alex,
I have received the following update.
At the moment we are looking to start building the network from the start of 2021, however the build programme does run through to mid 2022 at the moment and we cannot say exactly where your premise sits in the build until we undertake access surveys – which begin early 2021.
Many thanks
Kind regards
Lydia
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And were back:
Works location: BTW JNC CONSTABLE DRV AND JNC RAEBURN ROAD ON, CONSTABLE ROAD...
Works description: Locate and excavate 5 blockage in existing duct...
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Advanced planning
This is directly opposite the local aggregation node.
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That's good, but the bad news is we're going to be losing the descriptions from one.network (https://onenetworkhq.medium.com/street-manager-what-the-new-rules-mean-for-you-7a69c8583a79) soon :no:
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Yeah I know, how utterly useless. Although I read their explanation and was still confused, as they said registering would give you more information, then later on made it sound like that still doesn't include description. So registering would make zero difference.
I wonder if these new restrictions though are thanks to the idiots attacking telecoms workers, because I cant think of any other way those descriptions are somehow security issues.
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Delays likely - Lane closure
Works location: NR JUNC LEIGHTON ROAD TO NR JUNC HERDINGS ROAD, NORTON AVENUE...
Works description: [Optional permit no fee] proving and cabling works... ;D
Responsibility for works: Openreach
I'm not sure what would be worse at this point, if they reach me quicker than expected and I can't order it because were vulnerable and wont risk anyone in the house, even if Openreach are willing. Or if we get done last.
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Looks like CityFibre will beat Openreach at their own game near the exchange at this rate.
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: KG022SHF-FTTH-PN161-04
Nice of them to have a reference code that indicates what the work is for.
Openreach are a bit more cryptic but I did see:
Works reference: BC118ETHERNET2WC4L6K0B
Anyone noticed if Openreach have a specific prefix for the actual fibre installation stage?
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A lot of ours are like this BC311WAPL8L5Z002, although some don't have WAP in them.
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Openreach are a bit more cryptic but I did see:
Works reference: BC118ETHERNET2WC4L6K0B
Anyone noticed if Openreach have a specific prefix for the actual fibre installation stage?
That's a leased line. The reference depends on the contractor but could do worse than look for FFIB as far as Openreach go.
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We should try and figure out the codes.
I've noticed around my way some Virgin Media work references are;
NK128LFFN-275
I've figured out that LFFN seems to be a reference to the Greater Manchester Local Full Fibre Network.
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That's a leased line. The reference depends on the contractor but could do worse than look for FFIB as far as Openreach go.
That's interesting considering where its located is residential, the only thing nearby is a Virgin cabinet.
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Corner shops, NHS facilities, mobile masts and even some workers at home use leased lines as well.
Ethernet in the street works reference is what it says it is and is not GEA-specific work though it can be handy as they may deploy additional infrastructure for futureproofing.
Feel free to check the FTTP works in Hunslet and Rothwell, Leeds, for examples of both FFIB and generic works references.
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Ethernet in the street works reference is what it says it is and is not GEA-specific work . . .
I presume it would be either EAD or EBD? . . . though I can't remember the last time I saw a reference to the latter product.
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We should try and figure out the codes.
I've noticed around my way some Virgin Media work references are;
NK128LFFN-275
I've figured out that LFFN seems to be a reference to the Greater Manchester Local Full Fibre Network.
Not my area, but have a tinsy bit of working knowledge on 'Noticing & Permits' with regard to creating them and displaying them on the streetworks set-up.
We use a system called EToN (Electronic Transfer of Notices) to raise a notice with the HA. The first set of letters and numbers relate to that particular orginsations unique code (in case of FPN's - Fixed Penalty Notices' being applied).
The bit in the middle I have no recall of its meaning, but would suggest it's an agreed 'simplified abbreviation' of intended works (The actual notice contains the work being done in finite detail). But I do know the final lot of letters/numbers are the Openreach estimate number relating to the job at hand and the HA own reference given to that job.
Each notice/permit should be 24 characters long in total, and it is that which should be displayed roadside when working. That's about the depth of my knowledge.
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PS - LFFN isn't solely related to Greater Manchester. :)
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Tricky to divine outside of what BS mentioned. It starts 'BC' it's for Openreach and the next 3 digits identify the people doing the digging but game on after that with the exception of 'Ethernet' appearing in some leased line provisioning.
Cases in point - the first one of these was full duct overbuild with swept tees to permit FTTP in Oakdene Drive, LS17.
Promoter Ref: BC005-KL1W000000063362NTG
Leeds Council Ref: 927368
Description: Lay duct and build chambers in footway and carriageway.
NSG Reference: 23014886
OD: BT
Promoter Ref: BC007-WBNMMD5V
Leeds Council Ref: 959912
Description: Install - 5m of BT duct in fw to facilitate spine cabling works so we are able to connect customers up to super fast broadband in the area.
NSG Reference: 23014886
OD: District 007
Promoter Ref: BC410-YK00000500299516900
Leeds Council Ref: 964683
Description: Excavate 1 location/s and install copper earthing strip to en
NSG Reference: 23014886
OD: Telent - ONSA
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It just sucks not having the description any more, can't tell if anything is happening or not.
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You can still get an idea, if there's loads of BT road works in a small area, chances are it's FTTP.
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True, and nothing really matters until I see them putting fibre in the local ductwork anyway. But I was quite enjoying theorising about what they were doing using the information provided.
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Same here, it was nice knowing where it was being installed etc. But alas that info's no longer available.
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I noticed the document was updated in February and I'm back to Delayed due to operational reasons.
What's the point of keeping it listed as "to start in next 3 months" then putting in a caveat like that?
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FINALLY, the map has changed to "build in progress" but my address lookup still hasn't updated to mention "coming soon" like it did before.
Ah well, seems things are moving forward at last.
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Spotted an Openreach fella looking at some poles on my street a couple of weeks ago (S2). Followed by some guys jamming things through ducts last week. Left yellow markings of 'RR' on the covers. Should I be getting excited yet? :fingers:
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Spotted an Openreach fella looking at some poles on my street a couple of weeks ago (S2). Followed by some guys jamming things through ducts last week. Left yellow markings of 'RR' on the covers. Should I be getting excited yet? :fingers:
Sounds like it could be the start of something, may well be a long journey yet though :)
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Sounds like it could be the start of something, may well be a long journey yet though :)
To be fair I can get by on my current 80Mbps line but the prospect of gigabit being available is quite nice. Although recently signed up for another 24 months with TalkTalk. Not sure if they'd let me switch to their FTTP plan mid contract. I live in a maisonette that forms the bottom of a block of flats. I'm guessing the fibre would have to come in the same way the copper does currently?
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I'm pretty sure RR means rodded and roped.
Flats can be problematic, as they need the landlords permission to do the installation work, which means wayleaves.
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I'm pretty sure RR means rodded and roped.
Flats can be problematic, as they need the landlords permission to do the installation work, which means wayleaves.
Our new build estate has just gone live on FTTP and all the flats have been skipped due to wayleave issues.. sure its a temporary skip but must be annoying for those that live in them none the less.
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To be fair I can get by on my current 80Mbps line but the prospect of gigabit being available is quite nice. Although recently signed up for another 24 months with TalkTalk. Not sure if they'd let me switch to their FTTP plan mid contract. I live in a maisonette that forms the bottom of a block of flats. I'm guessing the fibre would have to come in the same way the copper does currently?
From your description, it sounds like you fall under the MDU (Multiple Dwelling Units), tag. Conversley, other premises are classed as SDU (Single Dwelling Units).
I'm afraid we only provide capacity at the nearest point of entry into the premises (sometimes referred to as a 'buddi-box'), or where possible, in the cupboard/riser/etc where the existing copper distribution point is currently sited.
Once the whole PON is built, we partially commission the SDU aspect, leaving the MDU to be picked up by an approved contractor to install, if and when wayleaves permission is granted by the MDU landlord.
PS - I would say Ronski's guess at RR and its meaning, is a good one.
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Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what the deal is with my property as I have my own access (external front door) whereas the people in the flats have their own external door leading to a communal staircase. I currently just have an Openreach socket in the hallway not far from the front door.
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I'm not sure it works the same with Maisonettes as they usually do not have enclosed communal areas like flats often do and most often (in Sheffield at least) are council owned.
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Things seem to finally be picking up pace:
Charnock Hall Road, Sheffield
07 September — 09 September
Delays possible - Traffic control (give & take)
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500311431000
Moorland View, Sheffield
07 September — 09 September
Delays possible - Traffic control (Stop/Go boards)
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500311431002
Ashleigh Avenue, Sheffield
08 September — 10 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500312893901
Ashleigh Drive, Ashleigh Avenue, Sheffield
08 September — 10 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500312893902
Blackstock Close, Sheffield
08 September — 10 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500313623801
Blackstock Crescent, Sheffield
08 September — 10 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500313623800
Blackstock Road, Sheffield
08 September — 10 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500313623802
Charnock View Road, Sheffield
07 September — 09 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500311423200
Corker Road, Sheffield
06 September — 08 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500313321600
Corker Road, Sheffield
06 September — 08 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500313440200
Fleury Place, Sheffield
06 September — 06 September
Delays unlikely - Some carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500311787801
Gaunt Drive, Sheffield
08 September — 10 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500308911000
Gleadless Common, Sheffield
06 September — 08 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500313440201
Hollinsend Road, Sheffield
07 September — 09 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500312162700
Hollybank Road, Sheffield
06 September — 08 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500312435900
Myrtle Springs Drive, Sheffield
08 September — 10 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500312893900
Ridgeway Drive, Sheffield
06 September — 08 September
Delays unlikely - No carriageway incursion
Responsibility for works: Openreach
Current status: Planned work about to start
Works reference: BC210NE00000500313321601
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Did they actually do anything on these days? I've noticed they just don't seem to be turning up recently. My pole has supposedly had works on it for multiple days from July/August but still nothing new.
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No idea, mum is vulnerable so I've literally not left the house in a year. :(
A lot of these jobs have been showing up for months, but with so many coming up all at once I'm fairly confident at least some of them must be happening.
Fortunately I can see my own pole from the house so I will know once its actually done, but its not been on the list yet.
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So they just ran fibre across the road to the maisonettes, nothing on roadworks so confirms my theory that the reason there are so few jobs round here is they are able to do it without disrupting the road so no need for permits.
However that also meant they had the box open that leads to my pole and crap, no ducting at all, its armoured cable all the way. I fear this means a much longer wait for them to get round to doing it.
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The roadworks for my DP were over the last three days but appears to have dropped off one.network with nothing actually happening. It seems things were going through the motions as the one for the road went from "no carriageway incursion" to "stop/go boards" then disappeared.
I did check over the last few days though and noticed the neigbours parked on the pavement they would need to dig for the ducting.
What recourse do Openreach have to get people to move their cars illegally parked in the way of their work? Is it likely this is why it didn't happen?
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Utilities often seem to book roadworks here (sometimes several times!) but then fail to turn up and do any work. Regardless, the council put up no parking signs in preparation for these non existent works.
What recourse do Openreach have to get people to move their cars illegally parked in the way of their work? Is it likely this is why it didn't happen?
Our local council tend to tow cars away in areas marked as no parking after giving them a parking ticket
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When its council works sure, but I've never seen the same done for Openreach.
I wonder if the fact they initially seemed to apply as "no incursion" then had to hastily change it was a glitch, or something that actually happened and messed this up?
I do agree its normal for things to pop up and disappear several times, but I was just curious how the parking issue may play into this, if at all. As if they turn up and the pavement is blocked, can they call the council to deal with it? Is this routinely done/checked before work begins?
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As if they turn up and the pavement is blocked, can they call the council to deal with it? Is this routinely done/checked before work begins?
Depends on what works actually needs done - if we need to trench through the footpath then the cars in the way might be an issue.
Couple things we can do in these instances
-knock on doors and ask people to politely move their cars cause they don't want them covered in dust and tar
-request the council send traffic wardens down to enforce the zone
-send a Traffic Management crew the night before to cone off the area
If we don't need to trench through the pavement (which is normally the case) we are pulling cable through existing infrastructure whether underground or overhead.
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Definitely needs trenching, its DIG from the DP down the pavement to the joint across the road. I was eye-balling it and figured its right under the cars.
I think they might have dug an exploratory hole under the DP, I don't remember it being there before but it didn't look fresh tarmac which is odd. I wonder if its temporary tarmac of a sort due to needing to dig it up again?
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Definitely needs trenching, its DIG from the DP down the pavement to the joint across the road. I was eye-balling it and figured its right under the cars.
I think they might have dug an exploratory hole under the DP, I don't remember it being there before but it didn't look fresh tarmac which is odd. I wonder if its temporary tarmac of a sort due to needing to dig it up again?
Wouldn't be able to give too much information without being onsite but normally there is 4 inch ducts between the manholes, only way I could see a full trench needed would be if they are installing a brand new manhole but as I said, wouldn't know without being onsite.
We do use cold lay tar on public grounds as a temporary fix then submit a ticket to get a "hotbox" out to do hot lay as permanent fix.
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I did go back and check what they actually did.
Seems they were exploring what would be needed given the second patch is on the road right next to where my DIG cable joins the run back to the cabinet:
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3404227,-1.4416163,3a,75y,37.64h,61.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sax5aZLaJRVADFhOzn6123g!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dax5aZLaJRVADFhOzn6123g%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D288.1858%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
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Looks like they are fitting swept tees to allow for fibre bend radius in the ducts feeding the lineplant
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Seems they did it while I wasn't looking.
Things seem confusing though, as I noticed this yesterday as they ALSO came out to install a new pole to cover this section - which is at odds with them doing the duct work.
AFAIK there is no duct under the road, but according to the workers the mark on the road suggests a blockage and there appears to be ducting going somewhere from that new chamber. They were as confused as I was as to why a pole had been ordered AFTER it had been ducted already.
My guess would be the duct ends at the curb with the intention of doing the rest later, but then it doesn't explain that patch on the road or why there is a marking suggesting a blockage if there ISN'T ducting already.
Any ideas what is going on? Would they really just give up and resort to a pole after already running new ductwork?
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Followup.
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I'm not sure how to read the blue markings on the grass (in the last picture). Can you make anything of it?
Edit: After downloading a copy of that image and staring at it in full-screen mode I think it reads as "F W 3". I.e. Footway 3.
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The men putting the pole up said they couldn't understand it either, they assumed it was where Virgin are going to put something but I doubt it - already seen all the Virgin cabinet spots on roadworks.org and one is going right on the corner of my street.
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I know it says "do not remove this sign" but I'm pretty sure this is in breach of the requirements to have the sign visible.
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From what I can see here, are they running the fibre from the AGG over the new pole but the splitter is going to be beneath this pole or maybe even the end of the street where people are less likely to be parked? That could kinda explain the ducting to nowhere.
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Further update from the guys completing the fibre on my DP.
They were told the confusion with the ducting was despite having BT chambers, the contractor used Virgin ducting. :/ I tend to think this is another fairy-tale, still not convinced the ducting ever made it across the road.
Still, it all seems to be happening now. Just checked and across the road from me is finally live, so seems I will be able to order very soon now.
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That was quicker than expected, now showing as available to order.
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Darn it: Send Order to Supplier - FAILED 18/06/2022 09:15
Shaking stick at Openreach! >:(
Wags finger at the person who placed the order at Zen, apparently he missed some fields when submitting the order. :lol:
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You will get it soon :).
What speed are you going for?.
I just went with 100/20 no need to wast money on anything higher as I do not need it.
Are you keeping your pfsense box, If you remember I re-configured mine to 'Two' WAN's with fall over.
WAN one = my Eclipse ADSL2 connection .
WAN two = my FTTP with Trunk Networks.
Works a treat. :)
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What speed are you going for?.
Given my current setup with three WANs, you need to ask? ::)
I'm currently paying £55.99/month for all three, so £59.99/month for 900/100 is an absolute no-brainer. :idea: :yay:
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Given my current setup with three WANs, you need to ask? ::)
I'm currently paying £55.99/month for all three, so £59.99/month for 900/100 is an absolute no-brainer. :idea: :yay:
Man I'm paying £100 for 2!
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I dream of being able to order....
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Man I'm paying £100 for 2!
£28.99 for Zen 80/20 (excluding line rental), £10 Voxi (deal for people on low income for six months), £17 for Three (just one of their random 12 month deals).
I did buy the routers outright so I could go for SIM-only/PAYG packages.
I did forget line rental as that's with BT Basic at £5.16/month and AAISP L2TP at £9.20/month.
Will move landline to AAISP VoIP which will drop that to £1.20, not decided on the L2TP service yet as its not been especially stable over 5G and pfSense has a nasty habit of not bringing it back up when it drops, which kinda negates the point of having it as a backup into my LAN if the main WAN goes down.
What would be ideal is if a CityFibre ISP offered a really basic, cheap, package for VoIP backup purposes. The catch is I need a static IP on it so I can also keep my XMPP server connectivity, as you cannot do DDNS to a subdomain that has more than one IP on it (at least on Cloudflare).
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When your ISP has an activation date, is that an estimate based on when they think an engineer will be booked, or an indication that an engineer HAS been booked?
I made what seems like it might have been a mistake in telling Zen they don't need to call to book an engineer as were always home, so now I'm not sure if one has been booked or not as the portal has an activation date but no indication of an engineer booking.
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Just wait until normal business hours, tomorrow, make a telephone call to Zen and ask.
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Fortunately don't have to, my e-mail was broken again (curse you Webmin on Centos, it just keeps crashing and then letsencrypt doesnt get run so my e-mail dies every 3 months) and the confirmation came through when I fixed it:
We're delighted to confirm that an appointment has been scheduled for an engineer to visit your premises and install the required equipment.
Date: 04/07/2022 Time slot: AM
Well I do need to contact them again anyway, they said I have to request the engineer wear a mask AFTER the appointment had been booked.
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Well this was interesting, the installer put only a fibre cable not a combined copper/fibre, so I wont have a landline for a while as I wait for the order to fully close so I can transfer the number to VoIP. I don't really mind, I wanted the copper gone (one less path for lightening into the house) but it just seems odd as surely Openreach would not approve of that, given its still an active POTS line?
Also kinda nuts they send a single engineer, I had to go out and help him as the line got stuck on a neighbors shed when he was trying to feed the new line.
Can't complain about the result so far though:
(https://www.speedtest.net/result/13364306845.png) (https://www.speedtest.net/result/13364306845)
With a little help from Three 5G:
(https://www.speedtest.net/result/13364426873.png) (https://www.speedtest.net/result/13364426873)
1 lo0-0.bng1.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.77.128) 7.207 ms 13.624 ms 29.968 ms
2 lag-4.p2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.87) 6.846 ms 7.087 ms 6.702 ms
3 lag-2.p2.thn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.138) 6.567 ms 7.461 ms 6.248 ms
4 lag-1.br2.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.169) 6.526 ms 6.430 ms 6.741 ms
5 195.66.225.91 (195.66.225.91) 6.074 ms 5.785 ms 6.715 ms
6 151.101.128.81 (151.101.128.81) 6.531 ms 6.804 ms 6.693 ms
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Congratulations. :)
(Don't forget the marathon topic (https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/zen/f/4709246-slow-speed-after-gea-migration.html), relating to Zen, over in the TBB forum.)
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I believe when Zen have their own cable links it reports Zen LLU on SamKnows?
Not sure how I'm connected, though this is curious on the portal "Place cease order with TTB". So I wonder if Zen are using plain BTW for FTTP right now on my exchange?
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Samknows no longer update their LLU availability (either accurately or at all).
It also only reported if Zen had LLU provision (as in ADSL) in place and not whether they have 1Gb or 10Gb GEA cablelinks for FTTC/P.
Zen have 1Gb GEA cablelinks in some Headend exchanges but no 10Gb cablelinks so anything above 330Mb/s would need to be over BTW or TTB.
Their control panel also makes no mention of the backhaul for many users any more. It's only if Zen change the backhaul while a customer that it might show as an active order.
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Yes, I had the active order when I was originally moved to TTB on VDSL and also lost the backhaul listing off the portal later.
I seem to recall the latency was higher on TTB than BTW, though its all a bit hard to tell given there can be a 10ms delta between one PPP session and another, something which is somewhat annoying to be honest. Although moving to FTTP has shaved 10ms off what I had before, which is why I was wondering if I was back on BTW as I didn't expect quite that much improvement.
After so many people saying it didn't make THAT much difference moving to FTTP, its a night/day difference for me. Pages are loading much much quicker, some feel almost as quick as off my NAS, its somewhat surreal to be honest as I'd gotten used a few seconds stall between page loads.
Its especially notable sending files over my XMPP proxy to a friend in Texas. Large file transfers would often fail and I'd see the the data transfer constantly stalling, tested a file earlier and the speed was very consistent, not stalling and a much larger file than usually works.
I expected to be a bit underwhelmed after 5G, but this is completely another level.
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Hasn't the engineer put this a bit low? Given where the fibre goes into the house, why would he put it this low - so he could put the splicer on the ground?
I'm rather concerned the council gardening service or even rats are going to cut the fibre.
I mean he put the ONT lower than I wanted too but that was my fault, I wasn't clear about where I wanted it and he hasn't left enough fibre indoors to move it.
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Hasn't the engineer put this a bit low?
Indeed, I would have thought that the logical location would be over the wall entry point so covering the "splintered" brick!
There is provision for rear fibre exit on the CSP.
However, on my FTTP install in March, in my case UG fed, the OR sub-contract installer did ask where I wanted the CSP mounted, I opted for over the entry hole which I had pre-drilled at about the same height as the illustration, he mentioned that a lot of residents prefer the CSP mounted as low as possible to be less visable and complain if it's too high on the wall.
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Given what he did both indoors and outdoors, it seems he was making assumptions lower is better and I may have inadvertently given him the impression that's what I was thinking.
At one point he asked if I wanted him to use the same hole, as we'd just been talking about a hole I made for a CCTV camera I mistook him to mean that hole so said no, later on I realised he most likely meant the existing BT copper hole. That would have made a lot of sense and at least if he put the ONT too low then, there would have been a lot of spare fibre to re-route later.
Although my main concern is the outdoor part getting damaged.
I was just so anxious to "get it done" my brain wasn't firing on all cylinders.
I guess if it gets damaged, Openreach will just have to re-locate the CSP higher up the wall and when that happens maybe they will feed a bit more slack indoors (though there probably wouldn't be any spare if they had to use what was hanging to re-splice) while they're at it. It certainly seems it would be silly to get this done proactively for something that may never happen, so will just have to live with it as it is.
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Landline number moved to AAISP VoIP today and seems to be working fine.
I also asked Zen about what backhaul my connection is using and got a curious response.
We're not able to provide you with the information on the backhaul used as we're not privy to this information. We do have different suppliers we use, and how the service is provided to the property is managed and maintained by OpenReach which is a subsidiary of the BT Group.
Surely that's not right, they must know how the connection back to them is being provisioned?
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Surely that's not right, they must know how the connection back to them is being provisioned?
It's utter nonsense.
It's provisioned how THEY order it. The CS rep just has no access to that data so is doing the usual nonsense of making crap up.
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Landline number moved to AAISP VoIP today and seems to be working fine.
That's good to know.
I also asked Zen about what backhaul my connection is using and got a curious response.
We're not able to provide you with the information on the backhaul used as we're not privy to this information. We do have different suppliers we use, and how the service is provided to the property is managed and maintained by OpenReach which is a subsidiary of the BT Group.
Surely that's not right, they must know how the connection back to them is being provisioned?
Utter hogwash.
It's utter nonsense.
It's provisioned how THEY order it. The CS rep just has no access to that data so is doing the usual nonsense of making crap up.
As j0hn has already stated.
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I think the next message will be directly to provisioning team instead.