Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: badwolf456 on February 06, 2011, 06:34:03 PM
-
Hello,
I wonder if someone could provide an answer to a problem I have. I am looking to move to Be Internet, as they are an LLU operator at my local exchange. Now, according to Be, they cannot provide me with a service as I live further than 7km from the exchange. However, according to Kist, Samknows, and my current telephone provider (who is not BT) I live 1.2km (straight line) from the exchange and 2.25km by road and that these figures were also the same on the BT database. When I queried this with Be, they stated that their information for line lengths was also obtained from BT, but if that is the case why the descrepancy of nearly 5km?
According to Be, I need to contact BT and tell them to change the line length data from 7km to 2.25km. So what on earth are Be reading?? My telco has already confirmed that they and BT show 2.25km, NOT 7km. At this point I seem to be running around in circles, chasing my own tail.
So, could anybody tell me who/what/where in BT I can contact to discuss this descrepancy with and get it sorted once & for all? Any advice would be welcome.
Thanks
-
Hello,
I wonder if someone could provide an answer to a problem I have. I am looking to move to Be Internet, as they are an LLU operator at my local exchange. Now, according to Be, they cannot provide me with a service as I live further than 7km from the exchange. However, according to Kist, Samknows, and my current telephone provider (who is not BT) I live 1.2km (straight line) from the exchange and 2.25km by road and that these figures were also the same on the BT database. When I queried this with Be, they stated that their information for line lengths was also obtained from BT, but if that is the case why the descrepancy of nearly 5km?
According to Be, I need to contact BT and tell them to change the line length data from 7km to 2.25km. So what on earth are Be reading?? My telco has already confirmed that they and BT show 2.25km, NOT 7km. At this point I seem to be running around in circles, chasing my own tail.
So, could anybody tell me who/what/where in BT I can contact to discuss this descrepancy with and get it sorted once & for all? Any advice would be welcome.
Thanks
Isn't the issue with Be ?? You say 3 checkers PLUS BT's database came back with the same results. I'm not sure, but do checkers like 'Sam Knows' also interact with BT's database ??
-
Hi and welcome,
Can you post your present router stats (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php) here, so we can assess what your actual line length is.
-
Isn't the issue with Be ?? You say 3 checkers PLUS BT's database came back with the same results. I'm not sure, but do checkers like 'Sam Knows' also interact with BT's database ??
Yes, SamKnows and Kitz and other checkers use the BT database for their source of information.
-
Thanks for that Roseway ............ does it not therefore stand to reason that BE have got it wrong ??
-
OK, my Draytek router stats:
Up Speed 832000
Down Speed 7616000
SNR Margin 7.5
Loop Att. 29.5
-
Yup, you're close to the exchange mate. The checkers are right. get back on to BE and tell them they've got it wrong mate.
-
PS ...... dont know why you want to change providers ??? You've got a helluva speed right there. ;D
-
I'm guessing the zero's on the ends shouldn't be there ??
-
I'm guessing the zero's on the ends shouldn't be there ??
Yes the zero's are correct its how the Draytek presents the speed!
Want to move as Be are an LLU operator in my town, and can offer speeds "up to 24Mbs". BT never upgraded the exchange to 21cn, so unless I go with Be, I am stuck at 8Mbs! I don't even have the choice of using cable, as my estate was never wired up for it (yet cabinets were put in place).
Be are just passing the buck! They are stating I should contact BT to get this sorted, yet surely they have more clout and resources to deal with this matter!
-
Hi
quote I'm guessing the zero's on the ends shouldn't be there ??
yes its bits not Kbits
regards Jeff
-
Every day's a school day, I've never seen 'speed' presented like that from a router/hub.
Now then, the Upstream is higher than what a 20CN product can offer. It looks like its a 21CN product on the U/S, but granted, you should be seeing a damn site more on the D/S with your attenuation.
-
Hi
Just to be sure about the distance can you provide your DS attenuation, should be around 35db. Then you may be able to speak to someone other than script readers in Be that understands router stats .
Regards Jeff
edit forget it just realised loop att 29db ::)
-
@badwolf456: Enter your phone number and postcode in the Kitz line checker (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php) and see what it says in the 'BT line speed estimation' section. This data comes from the BT database.
-
Hi
Just to be sure about the distance can you provide your DS attenuation, should be around 35db. Then you may be able to speak to someone other than script readers in Be that understands router stats .
Regards Jeff
That's what the 'loop attenuation' figure is, i.e. 29.5 dB.
-
@badwolf456: Enter your phone number and postcode in the Kitz line checker (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php) and see what it says in the 'BT line speed estimation' section. This data comes from the BT database.
Think the OP has already done this, although it's misspelt as kist.
-
Yes, my bad. I have already used Kitz (not Kist) and it confirms what my telco has already reported!
-
Every day's a school day, I've never seen 'speed' presented like that from a router/hub.
Now then, the Upstream is higher than what a 20CN product can offer. It looks like its a 21CN product on the U/S, but granted, you should be seeing a damn site more on the D/S with your attenuation.
I am only on ADSL Max - BT never upgraded the exchange to ADSL2+, only Be have that facility in Sandy as an LLU operator.
-
As I've said mate ..... get back on to Be.
You sure your exchange hasn't got 21CN though ??? Your upstream figure suggests otherwise.
-
raz - that upstream equates to 7 meg !! wouldn't see that on 21CN, so I'd assume it's a reporting error. You can get up to around 800k on ADSL1
OOPS!!! edit - read the stats the wrong way round :-[
832k upstream was & is available on adsl1, I was on such a profile on tiscali before I was moved to the tt MSAN as part of the migration...someone mentioned it may have been a business-based profile...
-
As I've said mate ..... get back on to Be.
You sure your exchange hasn't got 21CN though ??? Your upstream figure suggests otherwise.
Be are standing by their word stating that until the line length is changed by BT, I cannot order their service.
I checked exchange status with Samknows, and shows exchange is not 21cn!
-
raz - that upstream equates to 7 meg !! wouldn't see that on 21CN, so I'd assume it's a reporting error. You can get up to around 800k on ADSL1
OOPS!!! edit - read the stats the wrong way round :-[
832k upstream was & is available on adsl1, I was on such a profile on tiscali before I was moved to the tt MSAN as part of the migration...someone mentioned it may have been a business-based profile...
Yes, I am on a business based subscription with Naims, which is why I have 832k upstream.
-
raz - that upstream equates to 7 meg !! wouldn't see that on 21CN, so I'd assume it's a reporting error. You can get up to around 800k on ADSL1
OOPS!!! edit - read the stats the wrong way round :-[
832k upstream was & is available on adsl1, I was on such a profile on tiscali before I was moved to the tt MSAN as part of the migration...someone mentioned it may have been a business-based profile...
Well I never ?? I haven't ever seen anything above 488Kbps on ADSL1, even on business based protocols. This forum certainly keeps me informed as to what SP's have to offer.
-
raz - that upstream equates to 7 meg !! wouldn't see that on 21CN, so I'd assume it's a reporting error. You can get up to around 800k on ADSL1
OOPS!!! edit - read the stats the wrong way round :-[
832k upstream was & is available on adsl1, I was on such a profile on tiscali before I was moved to the tt MSAN as part of the migration...someone mentioned it may have been a business-based profile...
Well I never ?? I haven't ever seen anything above 488Kbps on ADSL1, even on business based protocols. This forum certainly keeps me informed as to what SP's have to offer.
Well I for one have learnt something new today. Cheers guys!
-
The data that Be have is clearly wrong, and it's not your responsibility to correct that data. There's still one bit of information which I don't think we've seen yet - in the Kitz line checker, what does it say in the 'BT line speed estimation' section? Sorry to labour the point, but this information comes from the BT database, and will confirm (or not) whether the BT database has wrong data.
-
Will check, hang on......
OK, part one of results:
Fixed ADSL: 2048 kbps (2 Mb)
DSL Max: 5000 kbps (5 Mb)
21CN WBC : Not Available
Part two of results:
dslMAX 8192kbps IP Profile 7150kbps
adsl2+ (21CN) 16000kbps IP Profile 14000kbps
adsl2+ (LLU) 16000kbps Throughput 14160kbps
-
That's absolutely clear then: the BT database has sensible (though conservative) estimates of the speed. You couldn't possibly get a speed of 5000 kbps if the line length were what Be say it is. I think your only option is to demand to speak to someone higher up the chain in Be, who can clear this ridiculous impasse.
-
get back on to BE and tell them they've got it wrong mate.
Be get their data from BT, so it's BT that have it wrong.
Sadly, you're stuck in the middle.
Your (very basic) stats suggest a potential speed approaching 15mbps (not 24) with Be.
If you can get more detailed stats to email to Be, and tell Be that you're already connected at 8mbps they may take you on "at your own risk".
-
get back on to BE and tell them they've got it wrong mate.
Be get their data from BT, so it's BT that have it wrong.
Sadly, you're stuck in the middle.
Your (very basic) stats suggest a potential speed approaching 15mbps (not 24) with Be.
If you can get more detailed stats to email to Be, and tell Be that you're already connected at 8mbps they may take you on "at your own risk".
HP sauce ..... the OP has tried umpteen 'line checkers' (including the one on this site), all of them use BT's data-base. Thus far, all of them have given the OP the correct speed he could achieve EXCEPT for Be. Would this not suggest it is Be's issue ??
-
It might, except Be link into BT's internal systems which are not necessarily the same.
So in reality this is probably just 1 vote each way as all the non-Be sources will be using the same data.
(the real line data is obviously much more significant)
Nonetheless all they can do is point all that out to Be.
Be have been stung quite a bit in the past with problems on long lines so, not unreasonably, have limits on what lines they will accept. Like any system I guess sometimes the data is inaccurate, but they don't generate it, it all comes from BT.
-
Be have been stung quite a bit in the past with problems on long lines so, not unreasonably, have limits on what lines they will accept.
Indeed... and I dont blame them.... but as we can all see, the line stats from the OPs router would appear to prove that this particular line should be fine.
I think the OP needs to get back in touch with BE.. most of their CS are pretty good and unlike some of the larger SP's understand the basics of adsl.
In this particular instance it would appear there is something wrong with their info.
I would re-iterate that
~ the line is 29dB.
~ already connected at 7616 on adsl 1 with a projected 15Mbps on adsl 2+
~ Other sources that use the BTw database are showing the correct loop length.
It may be a case of just keep trying until you get through to a CS rep that will do this for you.
-
Well it would appear the info is wrong - I spoke to Be to place my broadband order with and everything (so far) is going through OK. Link goes live in 2 days time (Fri 18th Feb). They agreed the BT data is just sooo wrong.
So hopefully, better speeds come end Friday!
-
:fingers:
-
I am now a Be Broadband user - and ye s I do have faster speeds both up & down. Just a shame it's not that bit faster than 9.8Mbs d/l. I can get 10-11mbs but at the expense of a less stable connection.
So, my trusty Draytek modem has been removed and currently using the supplied BeBox - does anyone have an alternative adsl router they can recommend. I am trying to convince myself to buy a Draytek 2830 (mainly for VPN, 3G backup amongst other things) but an expensive model and no guarentee of same speeds.
Any advice gratefully received.
cheers
-
It would be interesting to see the stats from your BeBox. ;)
As for alternative routers, the DG834GT is a favourite among Be users, provided it does what you need. 8)
And get into the Be forums and have a look around, there's loads of info there on routers.
-
It would be interesting to see the stats from your BeBox. ;)
As for alternative routers, the DG834GT is a favourite among Be users, provided it does what you need. 8)
And get into the Be forums and have a look around, there's loads of info there on routers.
The DG834GT doesn't do the 2 main things I want BUT might get a 2nd hand one off of Ebay just to try it against the BeBox.
What stats are you after? My u/l d/l figures are 1,083 / 10,524, SN Margin 9db
-
Bebox stats look like this normally ;) :
Uptime: 0 days, 1:24:30
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,248 / 6,887
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,248 / 5,518
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 18.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27.5 / 48.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 3.0 / 3.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 51 / 42,137
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 51 / 6
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 208,459 / 5
-
Here are my BeBox stats:
Link Information
Uptime: 2 days, 6:08:45
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,278 / 12,988
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 19.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 18.0 / 35.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.5 / 4.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 11 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 4 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 402 / 2,225,979
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 402 / 1,239
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 339 / 920
It is my intention to also try both a Netgear DG834GT & a Netgear DG834PN to see if they can improve anything? I will try with Netgear's firmware first, then try out with DGTeam firmware.
-
or try a D-Link DSL-2640B.....same chipset as 834GT but I've found them to perform better (on my line, at least)
-
Hi
quote Just a shame it's not that bit faster than 9.8Mbs d/l. I can get 10-11mbs but at the expense of a less stable connection.
But you do seem to synch at a higher rate
Quote Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,278 / 12,988 which seems just about spot on for your attenuation.
Regards Jeff
-
Hi
quote Just a shame it's not that bit faster than 9.8Mbs d/l. I can get 10-11mbs but at the expense of a less stable connection.
But you do seem to synch at a higher rate
Quote Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,278 / 12,988 which seems just about spot on for your attenuation.
Regards Jeff
The 9.8Mbs was before with INP2, I am now running INP1 so yes my sync rate is that bit better!