Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: srt on March 04, 2014, 10:55:38 AM
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Hi again folks,
Following on from my earlier issues regarding modem/router :)
I managed to get "Routerstats" for HH5 working and noticed some marked drops in the "noise margin and max rate readings when calling out or in with telephone. Presently I have the faceplate in place and note the following in viewing the graph (attached).
1st drop is calling out with dect phone
2nd (big) spike up is receiving a call from mobile.
3rd down no calls ???
4th (big) down is calling out on regular phone.
5th (big) down is receiving call from mobile. Notice this also shows an upward movement of the downstream.
Maybe this is normal but the quietline calls indicate no noise.
I would be grateful for any ideas as I am in "discussion" with a bt support member regarding all my earlier no shows to investigate what happened back in January when my connections were constantly failing.
Thanks :)
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Doh - forgot attachement :-[
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Sudden swings in SNRM, when the telephone equipment associated with the line is used, may be indicative of a developing HR (or semi-conducting) joint.
When performing a QLT, how does it sound to your ear?
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Thank you BK :)
In regard to the QLT I hear nothing to be honest.
I now have the faceplate off and am using a brand new bt filter in the test socket and a wired phone making two calls to QL.
Ive attached the graph of those calls.
The line has dropped a little in speeds whilst I connected the filter. It seems not to have impacted the stability and I am pleased about that :)
I have ordered one of those MK2 vdsl faceplates that have been discussed in another thread as my present faceplate is the original supplied when I had infinity set up.
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Hmm . . . Nothing really to be concerned about until the events between 1649 - 1700 hours. What were you doing to produce those sudden downwards spikes? Were they the results of looping the pair whilst performing the two QLTs?
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Yes - if thats what you mean by looping the pair ???
They were the outgoing calls to QLT.
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Yes, that is what I meant. :)
Something suspicious is definitely taking place but, at present, you have nothing really concrete to report to your CP. :(
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Suspicious - yes but as you say nothing that may explain it :-\
Last night my daughter phoned here twice and the signals reacted as before on each occasion so it seems associated with phone activity.
I noticed todays recordings are running reasonably stable but the upstream has drifted into the 6.3 area and downstream 5.7.
I am hopeful that the new faceplate might have a positive but will update when its here and fitted.
I will also let the bt chap know of this phenomenon but cant see whats to be done :no:
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Well I tried out the MK2 faceplate with little or no difference. Ive advised my BT support chap (not about fitting the new faceplate) and he feels it still needs investigating and the drop when the phone is connected in the test socket seems to point to the fault being elsewhere?
I did a couple more QLT and heard very very faint talking whilst I had my DECT phone amplified. With the wired connection I cannot swear to total quiet but I think I am just getting paranoid ::)
BT chap says to await the end of the engineering restricted work in my area as another booking would likely result in another no show. He is keeping tabs on things and will get back with a concrete visit in due course. I still wonder why my DS snr starts out at 6.3 when I re-sync and it then tails down to around 5.5 whereas the US snr virtually remains constant at 6.00.
Again I fear I am becoming overly pedantic ;D
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. . . the drop when the phone is connected in the test socket seems to point to the fault being elsewhere?
Yes, that confirms it is not a fault with your internal wiring.
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yeah either a HR or NTE5 fault.
I fixed my HR symptoms by putting in a new NTE5.
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Just a quick query, Chrys, as I don't want to hijack this thread . . .
Regarding the NTE5/A that you removed. Was it a BT original from the 1980s, with three screw terminals (A, B & earth) plus a gas-discharge tube over-voltage protector?
I have a vague recollection of either Ezzer or Black Sheep mentioning that the gas-discharge tubes, when sufficiently aged, had been found to have a detrimental effect on an xDSL signal.
(Needless to say the NTE5/A, installed in The Cattery is a 1980s BT original. The gas-discharge tube glows a very pretty violet colour when ignited by 500V DC. Tucked away in my what-not is a brand-new NTE5/A, manufactured in 2013, that has yet to be fitted . . . )
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nah its not that old, was fitted about 5-6 years ago when I had adsl installed.
only 2 screws, tommorow after sleep will post pic if you like.
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I had this issue when I was on ADSL. I was advised to try double filtering and it worked a treat.
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Well my HH5 monitoring shows the snr is still giving drops in connection with phone use :(
Interestingly my upload speeds have suffered a lot over the past few days too.
The snr drops seen on this graph indicates a call received the other night from my daughter to Mum - - yes they can talk :D
The bt test with low upload was this morning ???
I still await an engineer as they still display MBORC for my area (allegedly) :-X
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Doh - snr is here :-[
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here is pic
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chrysalisnet.org%2Foldnte5.jpg&hash=1f64c1b8b5a61b42d6dbf064b4371d4f183e1d17)
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Still odd behaviour with phone calls + low upload speeds and sloooow web page loading :(
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For the 80/20 Mbps services that you are paying for, the BTWholesale result shows that the circuit is performing very poorly. Have you performed the further tests that are offered once that initial result screen is shown?
Why not save the money and have it downgraded to 40/10 Mbps?
From the symptoms, I am fairly convinced that there is a HR or semi-conducting joint somewhere in the D-side loop . . .
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Thanks bk. I think you have a good point about the downgrade :-\
I am still awaiting the OR people to finish this mborc issue which is allegedly causing them problems. BT said that was the reason for my last four no shows and they arent sure anyone will turn up if I elect for another appointment just yet :no:
Once I do get an engineer on the case I will have a better idea as to ditching the higher service - - - I think ???
It certainly seems fishy that the drops occur with a phone call, answered or not added to the strange upload and slow web loading :'(
Ive asked my bt chap to let next week pass as I have a lot happening around the house so maybe the following week :-X
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Well after numerous delays an "engineer" finally made it on sixth attempt ::)
The guy went through usual tests and usual answer was its testing ok. I asked about the data showing drops and he agreed it was not normal when phone was used so went of to put me on a different copper at the cab.
He was preparing to leave and I asked about the faceplate which still had the broadband and phone lines in the test socket. He said it would be ok like that :no: and I pointed out I wanted it replacing and also mentioned the Mark2 model. He said he thought mine was a mark 2 and almost denied hearing of them at which I said I was rather disconcerted, so he went to van and came back with a mark 2. As the line still showed drops he said it would need new equipment and went of again saying the line would be out again for a while which it didnt. in the meantime BT India called trying to speak to engineer but his phone was going to voicemail.
Engineer returned saying they could not find fault but would be monitoring it along with some other points about the data recorder I was using not being common or somesuch. Anyway I chaecked routerstats this morning and now I have noise on my quiet line and all manner of extra activity without my even using the phone :'(
Ive contacted the BT exec chap I am getting assistance from for his thoughts. Anyone have views on this scenario?
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Yes your SNRM dips have got worse since march with the MKII faceplate installed and TBH I went back to MKI faceplate as the MKII seemed to create more errors in the stats when the phone rings
Though I did give the the A and B wires on the NTE5 a couple of punch downs before replacing the MKI faceplate.
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guys I resized my above image, sorry it was so large.
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guys I resized my above image, sorry it was so large.
I thought that image was a carpet now I can see the whole story ;D
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guys I resized my above image, sorry it was so large.
No worries. At the time, I just saved a local copy of the image and hence it was scaled to fit the screen when I subsequently viewed it. ;)
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Anyway I chaecked routerstats this morning and now I have noise on my quiet line and all manner of extra activity without my even using the phone :'(
Ive contacted the BT exec chap I am getting assistance from for his thoughts. Anyone have views on this scenario?
Audible noise when performing a quiet-line test is indicative of a defective metallic pathway and is totally unacceptable for the telephony service. If that is the case then Openreach will be required to attend to the defect, as there is a obligation with regards to every telephony circuit. The "higher-level" BT entity, with whom you are in contact, should be fully aware of that obligation.
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Well its some time since last post and I have experienced other issues including loss of voice and broadband line for three days :(
That seems due to some weather issues and its up and running again. I dont seem to have any noise on line now but the snr drops are still evident.
The bt chap seems not very interested tbh and just ignores my questions saying the engineers dont see a fault ::)
I have asked about goodwill gestures re missed appointments and also going back to infinity 1. Sounds like a good title for a film :shrug2:
Ive posted latest graph for today which shows my line is plodding through the dlm palava ::)
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I have a vague recollection of either Ezzer or Black Sheep mentioning that the gas-discharge tubes, when sufficiently aged, had been found to have a detrimental effect on an xDSL signal.
What I may have mentioned in the past is a suspision of the surge device in the NTE causing some issues. Definately a link when I could see a pattern in the black plastic of the rear cover of older NTE's. The black dye seems to show the signs of a heavy static discharge comming off the surge device. The white coloured plastic hides this effect. The pattering does not indicate that there is a problem with the surge device. It seems to be common on NTE's in lightning prone areas.
But if I found the nte to cause the problem (snipping the surge device off confirmed this, Fine for me to try as I had a van with plently new ones to back up my suspicion) the older ones with the green plastic at the rear were eyer to check as the surge device could be pulled out and refitted