Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: johninleeds on April 15, 2008, 08:12:09 PM
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Hi Everyone
I'm hoping that someone may be able to shed some light on this technical query. My broadband is with Tiscali and is generally quite solid (2Megs, SNR margin of 13dB etc). But from time to time the connection just drops out. My modem will reconnect - sometimes this takes seconds, sometimes a few minutes. There is no pattern to the drop outs i.e. it's not significantly worse during the evening.
I was considering buying a new modem until last night when I was unable to access the internet but could pick up emails without any problem. My modem (Sagem Fast 800-840) was also able to give me line stats - but no internet. I now believe the problem is something like the exchange running out of bandwidth - but how can I prove this? Any suggestions or advice gratefully received
John
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Hi John & welcome to the forum.
I've taken the liberty of moving this topic to, what I hope is, a more appropriate heading.
Very odd that you can still get emails without internet access working properly. The only thing that occurs to me at the moment is that you have exceeded your download limit on other types of traffic. I hope someone else can come up with a better explanation.
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Hi Astral
No I don't get close to any usage limit - never download videos, play online games etc. If I download more than 20Megs per day I'll be surprised...
Cheers
John
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Have you tried changing your filter and also tried using a router. Modems can be a bit dodgy.
Does the software on your modem have any diagnostic tools that you could possibly use to determine what the problem is and have you done regular speedchecks to see what is happening with your speeds throughout the day?? I would recommend all of these things as well as checking your phoneline to see if it is crackly (possible line fault).
See how you go with that.
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A router would be much better, IMO. I have Tiscali, and after a few problems, and following the advice of the more esteemed members of this forum, i made the change and have never looked back.
This would be ideal: http://www.dsldepot.co.uk/product_details.asp?idProduct=518
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Ammit / Floydoid
I've tried running without filters with little change. My little display says 'connected at 2.3Mbits', never changes. Attenuation is 43dB, margin is 13-15dB, consistent. I've looked at many of the speed related comments and advice on this forum and I'm sure this is not a fault in my system.
My house is 3 storey with the BT main input at one corner of the ground floor and the PC on top floor. This will be a struggle for a router - I really don't see how a wireless radio link can be better than two bits of copper wire carrying audio signals. It's also very frustrating having a degree in electronics but unable to make any technical improvements beyond rebooting etc !!! However at £15 I may just give a router a try. I'll see if there are any other suggestions over the next few days
BR john
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Hi John
I really don't see how a wireless radio link can be better than two bits of copper wire carrying audio signals
Depends on the quality of the copper wire you have installed and what other interference there is in the house. Don't underestimate what you can do to drastically improve your home wiring. Sometimes making a few modifications to your home wiring can bring about massive benefits to the signal which reaches your modem.
I think we need to determine *what* is dropping out on your connection.
In your first post you say that your modem reconnects... do the lights on the modem flash steadily for a while, signifying a resync caused by a line condition, or do the lights stay solid and your PC reconnects to the 'dial up' connection?
If the lights do flash, meaning the actual ADSL connection is dropping out, then if you haven't done already, I'd suggest looking at the tips in this guide (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm) for some tips you can follow. Specifically I'd recommend you look at the last tip which talks about removing the ring wire from your phone sockets. A lot of people have done this with quite drastic results!
This is especially valid in a big house, where there is possibly a lot of scope for the wire to act as a massive antennae and induce all sorts of nasty frequencies onto the phone line, interfering with your ADSL signal.
This is probably a long shot, but presumably you do have filters on all equipment connected to the phone line e.g. phone, sky box, etc?
As regards the router, I agree, a 3 storey house would struggle with a wireless link given the distance from the PC to the master socket. It would be ideal really if you could test your own setup with your own modem in the master socket downstairs, just to see if it made a difference, but if you haven't got a laptop that's often a pretty impossible task without a lot of major hassle!
However, it is often the case that a router will be more stable on a line that's even having problems with a modem, as a lot of routers seem to hold onto a line better than a modem does - better quality components / firmware perhaps? So, there's no harm trying the router instead of your modem upstairs and plugging into the PC via the LAN connection.
Perhaps, especially if the lights do flash when it drops out, you could post up a copy of your line stats from the modem, might give us a bit more of a clue :)
Hope this helps
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Maybe the ultimate solution would be to move the PC downstairs?
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If I was you I would try connecting into the test socket in the master socket, if this involes moving your pc temporarly then go on to the bbc web site & click on radio and pick a station and "listen live" that way you don't have to stay by the pc if this means it being in the hall way, You can hear if the connection is maintained without having to be buy the pc over time.
If the sync drops (the sync/dsl light starts to flash or goes orange) then the radio will drop out from 5-45 seconds.
The only problem here is the bbc site can trip over itself (eg Radio4 @ 1pm because people in offices are checking the news during their lunchtime) so this may give you a false alarm, just check if your modem is retraining for a connection.
That way you'll be able to define if it's your internal wiring which is causing the drop outs
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Homeplug/Powerline (http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/) adaptors would be ideal here, along with a router connected to the master socket.
Not a cheap solution, but possibly worth it in the long run.
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Thanks for all comments. Some very useful comments and I'll try to answer most questions in the next day or so.
Tonight I've listened to most of the football on 5live without a single dropout. Typical !!!
I'll keep an eye on the system over the next few days and report back
john
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Hi Everyone
I've spent a bit more time looking at this. To summarise the problem:
I lose connection to the internet
The drop outs are fairly random and do not appear to coincide with particular events e.g. end of TV program, footy half time etc although my wife thinks it's worse 4:30-6:00pm
My modem has both lights lit all the time
I do not have any concerns over download speed and I don't download big files
I still have the ability to download emails - when I press send/receive I get a little message saying "Tiscali broadband is connected" but if I rapidly swap to internet, I can't access any websites
When the internet is unavailable, I can still get line stats from my modem and these are the same when the internet wakes back up again
My modem settings are as installed, I've not tried any tweaks
Stats from the modem: RX 2272K, TX 288K, margin 15dB, att 43dB, ADSL G.DMT, Sagem F@st 800-840, WinXP
I have a filter in the phone line
The location is fairly 'radio quiet' and I never notice any interference on medium wave
My next change will be to check for and remove the 'ring wire'
Looking at other threads on this forum, I'm also wondering if leaving the PC on all day may get me a better connection from the exchange - but that's not very green
Finally, I am considering a weather related problem but i will need to build up more evidence for this
OK experts - over to you again - thanks
John
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The fact that you can still collect mail is the mystifying bit.
I'm just wondering something you say its happening just whilst surfing? If you can get your line stats and the dsl light is on then you must have sync - and the problem is probably further down the line - ie towards the tiscali end.
Floydy is on tiscali and a couple of weeks ago he started to have problems surfing websites and pages timing out. We recommended he try OpenDNS servers and afaik that sorted his problem.
https://www.opendns.com/start
Worth a try?
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You might have the answer there Kitz - given the mail servers DNS records will be hosted on Tiscali's DNS servers, perhaps they're having a problem with caching DNS at the mo? Definitely worth giving OpenDNS a try.
If that fails, can you beg/steal/borrow a modem from a mate, just to eliminate that?
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I would try a router. I don't really trust modems and think they are strange little things with a mind of their own.
Have you tried reinstalling the software on your modem (although at this stage I think maybe the ppl who know more than me are the best to listen to)
I would also give Tiscali a call and get them to check your connection because you have internet but you can't browse....which is odd.
Oh...and have you tried another web browser......like firefox? If you're using IE then check the settings on there. Also turn off antivirus to rule out that causing a problem.
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Kitz
Thanks for the reply. My own intuitive view is also that the problem lies downstream towards Tiscali. I really don't have any faith whatsoever that I would get anywhere with their helpline which is why I went looking for a forum with intelligent members
I can get to the OpenDNS website and it looks quite a useful tool for network administrators - but can you explain what I'm looking for, what it will show me to pinpoint the problem etc
cheers
John
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DNS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_name_system) is basically what tells your browser what address you should be going to when you point to a website. All ISPs have DNS servers which are like a "Yellow Pages" to convert the webpage address into a number that can be read by say the browser. Without DNS then "the web breaks".
Open DNS is a free DNS server that anyone can use instead of their own ISPs, all you need to do is set your PC to use OpenDNS rather than the your ISPs which is picked up by default. Theres a lot of people I know who use OpenDNS as a backup DNS even if they dont have probs with their own ISPs.
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If you go to https://www.opendns.com/start it tells you step by step what to do to change your DNS.
Click on the PC which opens another page - then click your Operating system (eg XP/Vista etc) and it opens another page with the details to put into your PC.
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Hi - I'm back. Other things to do at home so not had much time to look at this. However, I was on ebay last week and picked up a Netgear DG834 wired router. So far - continuous access to the internet. No complaints from wife and daughter. Solid for 2.5 hours this evening running at 2.3M which is the same as before. £30 well spent
So thanks for all suggestions, I'll try and throw a few helpful suggestions back on the forum over the next few weeks.
John ;D
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picked up a Netgear DG834 wired router. So far - continuous access to the internet.
Excellent :)
Are things still holding?