Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: jaydog on January 11, 2008, 06:06:40 PM
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On Wednesday I decided to remove the ring wires from behind my phone sockets to see if I could achieve faster download speeds. I was always syncing at between 4200 and just under 4500. This is approx 3.5mb and I know I can achieve a maximum of 4.5mb in my area. My download speeds were currently no more than 385kB/s.
I use a netgear dg834g v3 router at the master socket, i also have my pc wireless using a netgear wg111 v2 adapter.
Before the ring wire, i was having sync's at approx 4200 - 4450 - no higher. Since removing the ring wire, iv not had a sync that has gone under 4800 so its a big improvement and have had download speeds of 505kB/s - a big improvement.
My noise margin is usually around 6dB and drops throughout the day to about 3dB, but never goes higher than 6dB. In the evening I always find that my router loses sync, and then drops to a lower sync.
These stats on kitz site tell me what I need to know in this experiment:
sync 4000 kbps to 4512 kbps = gives ip profile of 3500 giving Up to 3.5 Mbps <<<< before ringwire removal i must have been 3.5mb
sync 4544 kbps to 5088 kbps = gives ip profile of 4000 giving Up to 4 Mbps <<<< afterwards i am now on 4mb!
As long as my router can stay with a sync of above 4544 then I will have 4mb download speeds, so thats all im going to think of here as there is no way i can clutch and hold onto over 5100 to give me 4.5mb as i lose sync in the evening and always drop below 5000.
My router - netgear dg834g is a good one though in my opinion.
I will post my stats twice a day in this thread so you can see progress since removing the ringwire. This may help other users determine whether to remove that ringwire, and help me as you may see something i can possibly change.
***Fresh reboot of router on Fri 11th Jan at 12pm*** - router not to be rebooted from now on.
Fri 11th Jan 2008 Stats at 6pm
DownStream Connection Speed 5408 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 448 kbps
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5408 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 49 db 14.5 db
Noise Margin 1 db 20 db
Notice its staying at 1dB and its 6pm!!!! It's always around 6dB during the day! Itl cut out and lose sync soon. I will update stats again at 10pm.
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Friday - 7.30pm - lost sync.
Stats at 8.30pm:
DownStream Connection Speed 4896 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 448 kbps
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4896 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 49 db 14.5 db
Noise Margin 2 db 22 db
Im still within the ip profile limit for a 4mb connection which gives me a good 430kB/s approx. Very frustrating that I can sync at over 5000 when rebooting router, but the evenings effect me.
Does anyone think it could have anything to do with the sky box telephone cable going into the connection?
The router is directly next to a tv and sky box but this is the only place i can have it if i want to be plugged into the main socket.
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Probably not. Why don't you try unplugging the sky box for a bit, either from the phone line, from the mains, or both, to see if it makes a difference to your SNR margin. Note you won't need to resync to see if it makes an immediate difference. If so, then take some steps to sort it out, if necessary shove a filter on the phone cable going to the sky box to see if double filtering makes a difference.
So yeah, it might be the cause of the problem, but then again it might not. Like I said in your other thread, we don't know for sure because we don't have the advantage of physically being there!
And like I said in your other thread too - SNR generally will decrease in the evenings, and there is very little, if anything, that you can do about it :(
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Why don't you try unplugging the sky box for a bit, either from the phone line, from the mains, or both,
And why not try jumping up an down on it whilst you're about it.
Ooops, sorry I forgot that normal people watch TV; it's only saddos like me that manage without.
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>> And why not try jumping up an down on it whilst you're about it.
Astral - how many pints did you have at the pub tonight :lol:
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Not enough, obviously! :angel:
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:lol: ;D :lol: ... ring sky up and say it didn't survive your own drop test and you wanted to check if their drop tests are the same as yours ;)
Is there any risk of a bad shock when fiddling / cutting with the wires ?
Is there any risk of shorting something which leads to a necessary BT visit and becoming £144+vat lighter.
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Oh well made me laugh
- since Im sat in on a friday night sniffing away and actually turned down an offer to go out.
oops slaps self for going OT. :-[
[edit to clarify]
sniffing being a "runny dose".
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Thanks for totally wrecking my thread guys.
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Well let's get it back on topic... any comment on what I replied to you or was I wasting my time?
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Saturday 12th Jan - 4pm
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4896 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 49 db 14.5 db
Noise Margin 6 db 22 db
Connection has stayed for 20hrs, big test will be tonight again. I lost sync around 7.30pm last night, so I guess this will happen again tonight and I will have a sync change. Whether this will be lower than above I have no idea, we will see.
Regarding sky boxes, I doubt this would have an effect as the telephone cable is rarely in use only when sky rarely dial up the box or if you interact.
Will post more stats at 9pm
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Regarding sky boxes, I doubt this would have an effect as the telephone cable is rarely in use only when sky rarely dial up the box or if you interact.
Since the router is beside the TV and sky box then the only way to be sure is turn both off and leave them unplugged to avoid Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise (REIN) . Could there be another source of REIN ? http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm
Another thing you need to do to be sure is unplug all the extension wiring in case something on it is causing noise or the remaining 2 wires are causing noise.
As mr chris says, you should see whether either of these affect the SNR margin immediately.
It just depends how far you want to go with your investigations.
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Saturday 12th Jan
Lost sync at 5.50pm
New stats:
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5056 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 49 db 14.5 db
Noise Margin 5 db 22 db
So yeah I lost sync, but when it auto re-sync'd it had increased!
Ring wire was definatly causing a problem because I never had sync's as good as these.
The problem I'm facing now is why I'm losing sync every single evening. I doubt its anything to do with my wiring/sky/tv/ because its always evening time and never during the day or overnight.
Only other thing I could try is to connect my router to the upstairs phone socket - then if I lose sync again every evening, I know its nothing to do with my router being next to tv/sky equipment....
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>its nothing to do with my router being next to tv/sky equipment....<
The only way to prove that definitively is to disconnect & switch off all other equipment connected to your phone line.
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Why don't you try unplugging the sky box for a bit, either from the phone line, from the mains, or both, to see if it makes a difference to your SNR margin. Note you won't need to resync to see if it makes an immediate difference. If so, then take some steps to sort it out, if necessary shove a filter on the phone cable going to the sky box to see if double filtering makes a difference.
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if it was sky or the tv, why does it do it in the evenings?
easiest way to test this is to plug the router into the upstairs phone socket, well away from the tv and sky box. cant have all my tv/sky stuff turned off for a full day!!!
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Any interference caused by the Sky box will be carried on the telephone wiring to wherever the router is connected. But if you're not prepared to try the advice you've been given we can't make you. I think this thread has run its course now.
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and if sky see that i have unplugged the sky box for 24 hours, i could be fined.
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Sunday 13th Jan - 11.50am
I have disconnected sky from my phone line to see if sky is the cause of my disconnection in the evening which then takes my sync rate to either lower or higher.
I have also rebooted router to get a higher sync speed to see if I can hang onto it without sky plugged in.
My stats:
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5408 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 49 db 14.5 db
Noise Margin 5 db 20 db
Will post back at about 9pm as usually i have lost sync with sky plugged in by this time.
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>> and if sky see that i have unplugged the sky box for 24 hours, i could be fined.
Many people do unplug the sky boxes (although I can't say personally cause I dont have sky these days), its only really needed if you do the interactive stuff and as long as you plug it back in once in a while for updates etc then it shouldn't be a problem.
After all how do they know the difference between you unplugging it... or say you going away for a few weeks and totally unplugging the sky box at the mains?
I have also seen many reported cases where sky have enquired of a user why the box hasnt been plugged in for months, and the user says "I unplugged it cause it interferes with my adsl" at which point sky usually backs down.
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we will see. if no disconnections, and no loss of sync at all this evening, then we know that its because of the sky box which i then need to figure out how to sort as its nice to have it plugged in for interactive if you ever need it.
if this test works, i will be getting 4.5mb speeds. most iv ever had is 4mb since removing the ring wire, and 3.5mb before that.
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If it does make an improvement you could try using two filters for the Sky connection (plug one into the back of the other).
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If it does make an improvement you could try using two filters for the Sky connection (plug one into the back of the other).
eh?!
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>eh?!<
Does that mean your Sky box isn't filtered?
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Use one filter..
then plug another filter into that..
then plug in the sky
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surely sky is already filtered if i have:
master socket > filter > then in the filter i have an extension splitter which i plug into the filter which allows me to put phone and sky into this, and then obviously adsl in the other socket in the filter.
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That set-up sounds OK.
Have you tried a different filter to see if the one you have is faulty?
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yeah. but from the sounds of it, some of you are saying to do this:
master socket > filter
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adsl extension splitter
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phone filter
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sky
how i have my setup now is:
master socket > filter
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adsl extension splitter
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phone sky
is my way meaning everything is filtered, including sky?
also, *diary update* - my snr has dropped to 0db so anytime now i reckon i will disconnect and lose sync! unless it can hold on without sky!
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Where you have the filter is immaterial if it isn't working. Have you eliminated the obvious by trying a different filter?
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yes, tried a few filters now. would i have to replace filters on all sockets to try and eliminate that its bad filters or just the master socket one? I could try again.
Lost sync too. Heres my stats.
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4832 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 49 db 14.5 db
Noise Margin 5 db 19 db
SNR back up to 5db now, just before i lost sync it was at 0db so not sure what it is thats triggering this once a night! it happens once, thats it!
So sky not making a difference at all! Would upgrading to latest firmware for router be worth a try?