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Author Topic: BT66B + NTE5 + voice socket, but no apparent "master socket"  (Read 6046 times)

Spinner

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BT66B + NTE5 + voice socket, but no apparent "master socket"
« on: December 02, 2010, 04:13:30 PM »

Hi guys,

I'm trying to make sense of the telephone/ADSL wiring in our (old) home, with a view to moving the socket used for broadband.

In one upstairs bedroom we have a NTE5 socket. This is, apparently, the only socket in the house with ADSL. However, none of the other (voice) extensions appear to run from it, so I cannot believe that this is the master socket. Removing the faceplate makes no difference to the other extensions.

I traced the wire that leads to the NTE5 box back to an external box fitted outside which appears to be a BT66B. Into this box also run two external black cables: one appears to be the line from the exchange, whereas the other runs into the kitchen, where it feeds the voice sockets, all of which run out from the kitchen.

However, I don't understand why these sockets then don't have ADSL. The socket in the kitchen has no faceplate; might it nonetheless have filtering capability contained within? How do I tell?

I also am unclear on the demarcation point. Is it the BT66B box? Or some other point? Can I then move the NTE5 box to another room, perhaps trimming down the wire that feeds it to (theoretically) improve ADSL speeds? Obviously I don't want to get on the wrong side of BT, but at the same time, I don't want to be paralysed in inaction.

Any guidance appreciated.

Cheers,

Spinner
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waltergmw

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Re: BT66B + NTE5 + voice socket, but no apparent "master socket"
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2010, 04:57:42 PM »

Hi Spinner & welcome,

What you are describing is know as star wiring and is usually deprecated.

You seem to be under a misapprehension re Broadband being available.

It can be at any socket but you should always ensure every socket has a filter dongle on it.

I'll write with some more suggestions shortly.

Kind regards,
Walter
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waltergmw

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Re: BT66B + NTE5 + voice socket, but no apparent "master socket"
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2010, 05:20:16 PM »

High again Spinner,

It would be a better idea to get a NTE5 master socket run from a single cable from the external BT66B and then have the minimum number of extensions wired from the NTE5 terminals on the front faceplate.
As you don't have the more conventional wiring arrangement as I've described above, I don't think you could get into any trouble with BT Openreach, although they might try to charge you if you call them out to fix any fault which might develop within your extensions wiring.

You should also remove all ring wires throughout your house wiring if they exist. See:-

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm

I would obtain a BT SSFP dual faceplate which segregates the ADSL signal directly out via the RJ11 small connector for the modem at the master socket, leaving the phone socket available there and also at any wired up extensions. If BT are not to come to site you can quite properly replace the front faceplate with a dual socket one e.g. from;-
http://www.adslnation.co.uk/products/xte2005.php

You might also choose to connect a DECT phone to an extension socket and dispense with all other sockets.
A simple option for adjusting the wiring, provided you have access to wire crimps and a suitable pair of pliers would be to cut the extensions wires in the BT 66 box and wire a second pair within the feed cable to the NTE5 box back from the NTE5 faceplate** and then re-connect the extension wires to the newly connected pair. To be absolutely safe this work should be done by BT but it might be difficult for a future engineer to find out who adjusted the wiring.

Please ask again if this is too confusing.

Kind regards,
Walter

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Spinner

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Re: BT66B + NTE5 + voice socket, but no apparent "master socket"
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2010, 10:56:49 PM »

Hi Spinner & welcome,

What you are describing is know as star wiring and is usually deprecated.

You seem to be under a misapprehension re Broadband being available.

It can be at any socket but you should always ensure every socket has a filter dongle on it.

I'll write with some more suggestions shortly.

Kind regards,
Walter

Hi Walter,

Thank you very much for your input. I think it's starting to make a bit more sense.

I have, however, checked what I think to be the voice-only sockets for ADSL and I can't get any sync (with a microfilter), hence my belief that the ADSL is somewhere being filtered off beforehand.

With a star-wiring configuration, then, is the demarcation point typically in the BT66B box or elsewhere? I should mention that the socket in the kitchen has a BT Piper logo on it.

My inclination is to wire up an NTE5 socket as close as possible to the BT66B and then run voice extensions from it, while keeping the ADSL router as close as possible to the NTE5.

Thanks,

Spinner

EDIT: One last point - I should have mentioned that there is a small box (looks a bit like a block terminal) in the cable between the NTE5 and the BT66B - is this likely to be significant, or just there to allow two cable to be joined together to provide the necessary length?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 11:50:57 PM by Spinner »
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waltergmw

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Re: BT66B + NTE5 + voice socket, but no apparent "master socket"
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2010, 08:45:34 AM »

Hi Spinner,

In a normal wiring configuration any socket should have the ADSL signal present so there is something fishy going on in your house !

Any box should be examined. It might just be a connector box or it could be a RF2 or RF3 filter.

http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/images/BT80A_RF2.jpg

That could possibly explain the anomaly.

In any event your suggested solution is likely to be the best you can do. I would also add a screened RJ11 modem cable such as those listed here:-

http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=r89vqh5kb7e363cttm64dagfe5

choosing the shortest possible length from the top of the list.

We might be able to comment more if you were to post your modem stats. See:-

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php


The BT demarcation point is always more difficult in your circumstances so it's much better to get a BT engineer to change your configuration to a single line with the master socket as that point.
BT favour that approach as well. A major benefit from your viewpoint is that you can isolate all your internal wiring when dealing with an incident.

Kind regards,
Walter
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Spinner

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Re: BT66B + NTE5 + voice socket, but no apparent "master socket"
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2011, 11:54:19 PM »


We might be able to comment more if you were to post your modem stats. See:-

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php


Hi Walter,

Sorry for the delay. I have my line stats:

Sync speed: 2432 Kbps
Attenuation: 61.0 dB
SNR Margin: 5.1 dB

and then some details of the errors (not sure if they are at all serious):
Super Frames: 72637082     
Super Frame Errors: 5837     
RS Words: 2469660793     
RS Correctable Errors: 3680801     
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 40071     
HEC Errors: 4810     
OCD Errors: 42     
LCD Errors: 0     
ES Errors:   0

Not sure if any of this will be useful but I thought it was worth posting them.

Thanks,

Spinner
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waltergmw

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Re: BT66B + NTE5 + voice socket, but no apparent "master socket"
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2011, 09:10:35 AM »

Hi Spinner,

You'll see here

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php

that you are actually doing marginally better than Kitz's estimate.

The errors don't look too bad but can't say much more without knowing how long the modem has been running since it was restarted.

I would still attempt to get the wiring altered if you haven't already completed that task.

Kind regards,
Walter
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