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[torqpoc]

Hello,
Firstly wanted to say amasing site. I've learnt a lot which has allowed me to badger my ISP (UKOnline) no end in resolving some issue.

Quick run down of the situation. I'm living in the middle of the countryside, line stats are usually as follows:
Downstream 6400kbps to 76000kbps
Attenuation 43 to 44db
SnR from 4db to 11.5db

Upstream 832kbps
Attenuation 25db
SnR rock solid 6db

So moved in new house on 14th May using DG834GT with latest firmware. Sync was around 4000kbps, plugged into test socket, got new filter and better RJ11 lead and got it up to 7.6 with 6 to 7db SnR. After initial issues with a stuck Bras at 500kb and being told i'd have to wait for 10 days during the training period, shouting at inept morons at UKOnline I finally got that sorted. I then spent the next 10 days pulling my hair out with constant disconnects and resyncs every single day for 11 days solid always at 9:30am. Checked everything in the house and nothing was turning on, etc.. to cause interference. Called UKOnline again, got told there were errors building up on my router (yeah right, no collisions showing) and it may be the hardware. So I bought a new BiPac 5200GRC.

Line stats on that were as follows:
Downstream 7200 to 7600
Attenuation 51.5db (why so different?)
SnR 7db

Upstream same as Netgear above

After using the Billion for 2 days I noticed the exact same problems and promptly made more numerous calls to UKOnline who kept saying that I was going through a BT exchange so they couldn't do jack, shouting and swearing I finally got them to acknowledge there was a problem, but only after the 10 days (my god sometimes people just can't get their eyes off the script). They logged a fault with BTWholesale who promplty said "No problems". This is where it gets really weird.

Since then, everytime a call comes through the SnR drops to minus 4, minus 5 and PPPoA session drops. I have witnessed this on both Billion and Netgear (i'm using the Netgear again) and what seems to happen is Sync drops to below 6db, down to 4ish, then right down to -4 and sync drops, PPPoA drops and voila.

Another bunch of calls to UKOnline and they got a OpenReach engineer to come out. After 30 minutes, he says "All fine". At this stage i'm considering murder. I explain the problem when a phone call comes through, he checks that and his eyes open wide and I get told "oooh 300 CRC errors in 10 seconds", there's a problem.. Well duh!

So off he goes to the exchange and calls me from there saying "You need a lift and shift". I ask when this can be done, get told he can't do it and it needs to go through the ISP again. Good god!. So after yet more calls to UKOnline i'm due a lift and shift... hopefully this will sort out some issues.

I do however still experience nightly line re-syncs going from 7600@7db to 7000@5db (or less) at night. Now onto the questions:

Is there anything I can do to avoid the constant re-syncs at night which make MMO gaming impossible? I've read about the DGTeam firmware (not sure if that would help) and the DGTool I think it is, but no clue how it works?

Any advice would be awesome, sorry for the wall of text just wanted to explain the situation.

Cheers,
T

Edit- Going to download and run Routerstats to get some output for you guys.

[waltergmw]

Hi Torqpoc and welcome,

It sounds as if you've been suffering from a high resistance fault which is usually cleared by doing a "Lift & Shift".

You can test this easily at any time by doing a 17070 Option 1 ring back test. You could also try the option 2 quiet line test using a standard corded phone.

We'll comment more once we have seen your Routerstats output.

Kind regards,
Walter

[torqpoc]

Hello,
|Downloaded and have routerstats running. Have attached some images which I think are pertinent (had to remove them when I realised my router ip address was on there, duh!). Thanks for the reply and welcome Waltergmw. If you need anything else please advise.

BT to do the lift and shift tomorrow, and i've attached the drop out I had when I got the call to tell me.

Cheers,
T

[attachment deleted by admin]

[attachment deleted by admin]

[roseway]

That dip in the bitloading around tone 160 is almost certainly the result of interference from a Radio 5 Live transmitter on 693 kHz. There's a map of medium wave transmitters here and if you click on the 693 box on the left you'll see where the relevant transmitters are. This is a common situation, and you can't do much about it, apart from optimising your internal wiring to minimise interference pickup.

The router stats look fine for downstream, but your upstream noise margin is lower than it normally should be, so you may have some low frequency interference affecting the upstream only. This is a not uncommon result of the sort of line fault which can cause the phone to sound crackly, as Walter said. A quiet line test may confirm this.

The connection drop when the phone rings is also likely to be a result of the same sort of fault (high resistance fault).

[torqpoc]

Hello Roseway,

Thank you for the information. There is actually a huge transmitter pole very close to my house. So that's probably the root cause of that. Would it cause the kind of issues i've been seeing though?

I understand the phone call problem, and fingers crossed that will be resolved tomorrow.

Cheers,
T

[roseway]

There is actually a huge transmitter pole very close to my house. So that's probably the root cause of that. Would it cause the kind of issues i've been seeing though?

No, it just makes a couple of tones unusable, slightly reducing the maximum connection speed which is possible on your line. It won't cause dropouts.

[torqpoc]

Hi again,

Ok thank you for the clarification Roseway. Sorry to be such a noob! The learning curve is steep that's for sure, but trying to get there. If there are other graphs I need to attach please let me know.

Will keep routerstats running for the next week to get some better "picture".

Thank you again for the help, it's very much appreciated.

Cheers,
T

[GunJack]

The MW transmitter issue is highly pertinent depending on it's locality to your house - I've got a BBC Radio Cymru one around 2-ish miles from me, and my bitloading around 657kHz is blanked.

Eric - great link to the tx site map - for reference, the map it uses is around 4 years old, as it shows my house being built   

[torqpoc]

Hello Gunjack,

It is very close, i'd say about 1 mile, if that. The OpenReach engineer when they came to identify the fault said he "hopes it isn't interference" but after numerous tests said it wasn't that causing the issues.

Just got a call from OpenReach to let me know the lift and shift has been done, that there were definately errors before and he doesn't see any leaving the exchange now. Fingers crossed this will have fixed the problem.

I'll keep you all updated, and wanted to say thanks again.. truly great community you all have here.

Cheers,
T

[torqpoc]

Hello again,

So the lift and shift was accomplished, the openreach engineer told me there was a problem and he doesn't see one now. I'm now syncing a lot slower than before, but with higher SNR.

Hopefully the drop outs will stop.. speed tests i've run don't seem too encouraging, even for 5:30pm. My BRas is, for some obscure reason on IP Profile 7150. I shouldnt even be able to do that. Do I need to get the whole 10 day thing kicked off again do you think since i'm on another card at the PSTN?

Edit - Oh dear.. I just did a 17070 option 1... and the sync dropped again. So it seems that didn't fix the problem with the ADSL dropping out when I receive a phone call. Could this have anything to do with the fact i'm using a cordless phone? It's a brand new Panasonic phone.. Just tested and it seems when its only incoming not outbound calls also....

Cheers,
T

[attachment deleted by admin]

[waltergmw]

Hello T,

Sorry that your problem hasn't been resolved.
You definitely need the fault reported again as still being there.

Kind regards,
Walter

[torqpoc]

Hey Walter,

Thanks for the best wishes. I just got a call from UKOnline, after reporting the issue yet again and they have rejected the "cleared" status on the BTO ticket, and have spoken to BTO's diagnostics team who state:
"We are going to adjust the SNR to around 14 to 15db and see if that helps resolve the fault, please notify the customer he "may" see slower speeds".

Not quite sure what to think of that, seems to me to be a cop out, an incoming phone call shouldn't require botching the SnR, lowering sync rate if there is a fault at their exchange. Am I wrong in thinking that?

Anyway, what will be will be. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that eventually some provider will LLU, or the 21CN will come in and in the mean time i'm not answering the phone! Haha.

Cheers,
T

[roseway]

You're right - raising the target noise margin may help to alleviate the symptoms, but it doesn't deal with the underlying problem. There's clearly a line fault of some sort, and your ISP mustn't accept the fudge as a solution.

[torqpoc]

Hello Roseway,

I didn't think i was wrong, just seems they want to increase the available SnR to compensate. Oh well. I don't think UKOnline are willing to fight on this one .. it didn't come across like that anyway.

I'll see what happens, and make sure I let you all know (sorry if I seem to be spamming).

Cheers,
T

[waltergmw]

Not at all T,

We all try to help those who find themselves in an unusual predicament.

Unless somebody's crossing wires somewhere, it seems quite preposterous that BT O are not tackling what is a clear and demonstrable fault with the telephone line when it rings.

I suggest you need to rattle a few cages within UK Online and get them to do likewise with BT Openreach.
Have you asked to speak to a supervisor ?
Have you threatened to change ISP ?

etc. etc.

Kind regards,
Walter