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Author Topic: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected  (Read 17638 times)

kapt69

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2010, 03:21:12 PM »

Hi All
No reply to previous post so I guess there may be no answer??
Have now also obtained 10m of shielded 'best quality' ethernet cable.
Didn't have much hope and - yep - no difference - apart from untidy cables strung around room trying to avoid 240v, coils in cabling & anything else that might affect it.
Still drop on SNR graph by over 1 db whenever PC is switched on.
Now more seriously trying to work out if it would be cheaper/easier to bin PC and buy another laptop, just accept drop & try and improve router's 'flexibility' with upgrade(Still can't find how - tutorial discusses flashing sky router  also having difficulty finding error stats.) - or just give up. Just don't like being beaten.
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orainsear

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2010, 04:07:35 PM »

You mention several noise spikes even when the PC wasn't running; is your home electrical wiring up to scratch?  It could be a power supply quality issue and unfortunately there's not a lot that you can do about that.

The PC may have been installed with a cheaper power supply unit, and that is causing the interference.  A solution may be to replace the PSU with a higher quality one.

Another potential solution may be to use a mains power conditioner.  I have had experience of a treadmill motor backfeeding distortions through the mains wiring (presumably it wasn't fitted with an electrical choke) which severely affected the SNR margin of an ADSL router.  Plugging the treadmill into a Tacima 6-way mains conditioner (around £25) completely stopped the distortions feeding into the main.

There are no guarantees it will work for you, however it may be worth trying.

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kapt69

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2010, 04:44:19 PM »

Hi
Thanks for reply.
Spikes appear every so often - fairly infrequently - pretty sure external. House completely rewired 8 years ago. Electricity board coming Monday to install error monitoring equipt. as I eventually contacted them. (Don't mind flickering lights - but if it affects the broadband connection . . .)
This was really just a 'final straw' - main problem happens every time PC switched on (without being connected to router) PSU has been mentioned before and I think I will have to look into getting it changed - I only just got PC back from repair so had wantd to hang on to it for a while . .  but . .
PC is fed by Stanley/Belkin Power distribution extension which I think is to prevent surges - not sure if this has same affect as a mains conditioner??
Anyhow thanks for trying  . . . will bite the bullet after the weekend - during which time I'll bite the glass :'( :drink:
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orainsear

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2010, 06:43:03 PM »

>>>PC is fed by Stanley/Belkin Power distribution extension which I think is to prevent surges - not sure if this has same affect as a mains conditioner??

Surge protectors are generally used to protect against larger voltage spikes and won't provide the same functionality as a mains conditioner (unless it has one built in to it of course).
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2010, 05:01:46 PM »

Stanley/Belkin Power distribution extension which I think is to prevent surges


kapt,

It's a long shot, but you could try plugging the PC into the mains directly just in case it improves things (thus implicating the extension socket).

In my experience, extension sockets are often poorly made.  I recently found one with a 'dead' socket because all of the internal connection screws were loose, and a while ago I had one that was completely missing an earth terminal on one of its sockets.

That apart, I have to say that at the signal levels Kapt is running at (>=63dB  attenuation), it takes only a tiny amount of interference signal to register as 1 or 2 dB on the SNR.   At  that  attenuations, some small 'drift' in SNR, as various bits of stuff are switched on & off,  is going to be almost innevitable and perhaps impractical to totally eradicate.
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kapt69

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2010, 06:54:11 PM »

SLM
Good to hear from you.
Thank you for the suggestion - will do. I hadn't thought of that!
Also interested in your comment about high attenuation meaning relatively small intereference may equate to 1 or 2 db - I still feel that as this reresents 13% of SNR margin this is considerable - but if you suggest this is almost to be expected - fair enough.
Will now go & change power distribution system (i.e. plug straight into wall socket!!)
Thanks again.
Regards
K
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kapt69

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2010, 07:48:37 PM »

Hi again
Pulled printer, monitor,scanner power supplies from any connection. Plugged PC straight into wall socket. Started it up.
NSR dropped from 11.8dbs to 9.1 then 8.9dbs - curently down to 8.5 will have to turn off PC if it continues.
Worth trying - but no go!
k
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2010, 11:27:14 PM »

NSR dropped from 11.8dbs to 9.1 then 8.9dbs - curently down to 8.5 will have to turn off PC if it continues.
Oh dear, still -worth a try  :(

Edit:  Note I've deleted most of this post as I went into an explanation of dB scales, and subsequently realised it was misleading.

Eric has a sticky that explains dB as applied to adsl here:
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,147.0.html




« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 04:58:59 AM by sevenlayermuddle »
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jeffbb

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2010, 01:11:24 PM »

Hi
quote  NSR dropped from 11.8dbs to 9.1 then 8.9dbs - curently down to 8.5 will have to turn off PC if it continues.

Looking at the time of your post I am not surprised The SNR margin is dropping . It all depends on how its dropping is it more or less a gradual drop or is it very spiky and noisy . Have you got a Routerstats graph of the time period ?

Regards Jeff
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kapt69

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2010, 04:41:46 PM »

Hi Jeff
Have tried to attach log of stats - no graph - sorry. I hope it shows that it's not evening 'drop' - time PC switched on approx 19.39 then off 19.50.
Have selected part of day's stats as whole file too large.
Thanks for your input.
Regards
Kerris

[attachment deleted by admin]
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jeffbb

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2010, 06:35:48 PM »

Hi
Looking at those results I would say they are 'normal' sort of drift and general noise that can be expected  during evening period . you did have a step drop of 1.5db for about 10minutes ,this could just be some small noise source switching on then off again. I have some similar patterns on my line . I have never been able to track them down .
Its quite difficult to get a true picture when looking at rows of figures . As the old saying goes a picture is worth a 1000 words  :)
Regards Jeff
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kapt69

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2010, 07:51:17 AM »

Hi Jeff
Thanks for looking.
At risk of offending - yes I'm sure you're right - but - that small drop happened exactly when PC was turned on then off. It may just be coincidence, but I rather doubt it. Anyway I need to find MW radio to help identify and am gearing myself up to change PSU. If that doesn't work I will have to change PC. I am determined to do all I can to keep as much of what little speed I have as possible.
As regards pics - again apologies. I need to get my head around setting things up so they are deleted after a specific time once scheduled regularly.
Thanks again
Regards
Kerris
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kapt69

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2010, 08:34:14 AM »

SLM
Thanks for link. I saved it for this morning  . . . . when I had a clear head. - Note the past tense!! :lol:
K
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kapt69

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2010, 09:45:39 AM »

Jeff
Just captured a pic for you - whilst I was sorting through the day's Viagra offerings. From memory 08.42 - 09.33
Kerris

[attachment deleted by admin]
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HPsauce

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Re: Reduced SNR margin when PC connected
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2010, 09:55:54 AM »

A new PSU is really cheap and usually simple to fit if your PC uses a "standard" type.
What make/model of PC and PSU is it?
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