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[tuftedduck]

Good morning. 

Hope you are all well and that the various aches, pains and non-functioning boilers are being bettered behaved.

 ...........not venturing out today.

Have a good day   

[UncleUB]

Good afternoon TD and anyone else who may pop in.  

Been doing a bit of shopping this morning,

Sue is off this week.

Dull and mild(ish) here.

Just pottering for the rest of the day.

Have a nice day whatever you are doing.  

[kitz]

hello

Boiler is still at the needs fixing stage... and it will also need a new fan at some stage..  however I do have heating atm. 

I think atm the problem is that it keeps getting air locks, so if I bleed all the radiators and keep topping up the water then the heating will work.
If the airlock gets too big, or if the pressure level drops too much then the heating refuses to work.

[tickmike]

Yes it is amazing how a very small amount of air in a system (Central heating or your hot water system or say a hydraulic system with oil in it ) can stop a system from working.
On my underfloor heating system there are two bath rooms where the walls as well as the floor are heated and I have had to use an hose pipe connected temporary to flush out the air.

[kitz]

Its being very temperamental atm.

When the plumber came out last, he couldnt find where it was leaking from.   
Problem apparently is when its on and warm then it doesnt leak too bad (expansion).   Yet if its off ad cold, then it leaks badly... and then it gets the airlocks.. and then it wont switch back on.

Soo...  obviously ive not liked turning it off when it is working...  but hes coming back later this eve after its been off for a few hours and hopefully can find it then. 
In the meantime theres still bowls underneath catching water.

The fan is a different matter, but it is getting very noisy which is an indication that its going to go soon.   So that will be more expense that costs about £100 just for the part

[UncleUB]

Kitz,

where are you getting the leaks(if you have already posted,then sorry for missing it)

Tbh a good heating engineer should have no problem finding where your heating system is leaking from.

[sevenlayermuddle]

if the pressure level drops too much then the heating refuses to work.

Kitz, that suggests to me it might be a pressurised system.  Do you know if that's the case?

Such systems have an expansion  vessel with a diaphragm supported by air pressure on one side and water on the other.  It avoids the need for a reservoir tank in the loft.  These systems (I'm on my second house with one) are a proper pain and you need to get somebody who specialises.   There may well be specific certfications available, I'm not sure.

One scenario with pressurised systems occurs when the expansion vessel develops an air leak, so the diaphragm collapses to some extent and the vessel stops doing it's job.  You can compensate by adding water but, when the water expands, it has nowhere to go so a pressure-relief valve opens to let out excess water (or at least it, should, as it's preferable to the boiler exploding).  When the system later cools, the water contracts and air is sucked into the system.

Expansion vessels can be re-inflated with a car footpump to restore normal service,  but if they lost pressure then they prbably have an  air leak and will probably soon lose pressure again unless the leak can be fixed.

[kitz]

He did come again last night and saw where it was leaking from, theres some black plastic elbow jointy thingy where it joins some bigger black part (good termanology- sorry lol) which had started to crack.

Anyhow he spotted straight away this time where it was coming from and has ordered the part today.

When he first came round he couldnt see where it was leaking from because the copper pipe leading into it expands when warm and only does the occasional drip when the heating is on.
Its difficult to get in to the boiler as its in a built in cupboard in the corner...
and itself in a metal cabinet, which when opened is another metal casing to undo..  so he couldnt "look up from underneath".  
When he came back this time Id deliberately turned it off for a few hours beforehand so we wouldnt have the same prob.

>> Such systems have an expansion  vessel
>> It avoids the need for a reservoir tank in the loft.  

Not sure what it is... Dont have a tank anywhere.  
All I know is that its a combi boiler... and theres a dial on the front that tells me the pressure level.

>> vessel with a diaphragm  

When I 'top up' theres 2 separate lil tap thingies I have to open to let water in.


>> it has nowhere to go so a pressure-relief valve opens to let out excess water
Yep There is a copper over-flow pipe that goes out through the wall to outside.


He's told me not to worry too much about the fan as although its noisy, he said it could go for months being ok... or it could suddenly get very noisy and do my head in.  But as this part is easily obtainable he said if it was his own he'd wait a bit longer before shelling out but would do it if I wanted.  In view of xmas and other stuff yada yada Ive opted to leave it for the time being.


----------
[edited to add.. just looked up the model - yes it does have a sealed system expansion vessel

[sevenlayermuddle]

He did come again last night and saw where it was leaking from, theres some black plastic elbow jointy thingy where it joins some bigger black part (good termanology- sorry lol) which had started to crack.

At least, I guess, that sounds like a normal plumbing job unrelated to the fact it's a sealed system.  Which is good.

My pressure relief valve developed a leak recently.  It was actually a combined relief valve and (I think) a pressure restrictor in the same brass moulding which was no longer available, so they had to have one specially manufactured.  Cost £hundreds, plus labour.  Which is not so good.

I don't mean to put you off sealed systems, they do have their benefits.   As long as they're working I think they're more efficient, and doing away with the reservoir tank means one less thing to worry about freezing  in the depths of a cold winter.

Good luck with that.

[kitz]

Thanks 7LM.   This house has never had a tank and the builders installed combi boilers on the whole estate. 

This one has been in since about umm 2002/2003ish when I had central heating installed.  Then when I had the kitchen refitted a couple of years ago, he moved the boiler so it could hidden away rather than being on general view with loads of pipes everywhere.  The original location was in a stupid place!
I'm actually quite happy that the plumber Ive called in knows what hes doing..  hes much better than previous ones Ive had over the years - one I called out once was a bit of a cowboy.
 
When he first came we recognised each other from school days and his dad knows my dad from years ago when we used to get invited to their parties (bonfires etc).
He has a good reputation in the area and is normally very busy.  Aside from the relocation of the boiler which was a 2 day job, he mostly does my stuff at the end of the day when hes on his way home.. or w/es etc without charging me extra so I cant complain really.  It seems to be a nightmare around here getting a decent plumber that doesnt charge an arm and a leg.

[oldfogy]

It seems to be a nightmare around here getting a decent plumber that doesnt charge an arm and a leg.

Kitz, that statement seems to be nation-wide these day's.

Assuming it's the flu fan, then £100 sounds a bit on the expensive side.

What make and model is the boiler?

[kitz]

>> Assuming it's the flu fan, then £100 sounds a bit on the expensive side.

Apparently not...  when I told someone else earlier this week they checked the prices and its correct.
Even reconditioned ones on ebay are £61.

[orainsear]

Was the water leaking fairly clean or was it dirty?  Oxygenated water, copper and iron form an electrochemical cell, and corrosion of the rads is a result.

If it is a fairly new system and air has been only been getting in for a short while then you should be ok.

Also consider topping up with inhibitor (helps to prevent corrosion) if it needs it (depends on how much water was lost), or even flushing the system through if required.  Sentinel Inhibitor is about the best you can get and there are several different products depending on what you are doing.

I'm sure your plumber would have mentioned it if there was anything to worry about but it might be an idea to just run it past them at any rate.

[jid]

Kitz, I am not sure if you are aware, but British Gas offer a good repair cover service.

Our boiler is now very new, just under a year old but the old one we had had free parts and labour for call outs etc.

We currently are still paying it as it also covers pipes etc. About £15 a month is worth it as our old boiler must have had every part replaced for nothing

Its HomeCare200 we have, have a look here:-
http://www.britishgas.co.uk/products-and-services/maintenance-and-repair/boilers-and-heating/boiler-and-heating-cover/homecare/homecare-200.html

Its not the "Flexi" one though as that charges a fee per repair 

Includes an annual service which is very good.

[sevenlayermuddle]

Also consider topping up with inhibitor (helps to prevent corrosion) if it needs it (depends on how much water was lost), or even flushing the system through if required.  Sentinel Inhibitor is about the best you can get and there are several different products depending on what you are doing.

I don't disagree with that, but I don't know how you go about adding it to a sealed system.  The water is usually introduced to these systems via a semi-permanent pipe with a control valve, fed direct from the mains.  It's semipermanent' as you're meant to disconnect it after iuse to protect the mains from the theoretical risk of siphonage contamination, though I suspect nobody ever does.  Even still, it wouldn't make it any easier to get the inhibitor in.

We'd been advised that, as we have a water softener and the feed's on the soft side, we needn't worry about inhibitor.  Dunno if that''s true?

- 7LM