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Author Topic: Please help identify cause of slow speed  (Read 11808 times)

drmrbrewer

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Please help identify cause of slow speed
« on: September 06, 2009, 08:41:12 PM »

Hi all

In two days time I am at the end of my year's contract with Virgin Media for my broadband.  I'm on the verge of jumping to another provider, because I'm only getting approx 470kbps download speed on what is claimed to be an 8MB package (I'm on the old "Bundle One" package).

Before I jump to get more speed, I just want to make sure it isn't some fundamental problem with my line.  Thing is, I can't actually find a package that is any cheaper than what I have now, so if I switch to get more speed and end up paying more for the same speed with someone else, it wouldn't really have been worthwhile!

On the other hand, if it is due to some speed restriction being applied by Virgin, I wonder whether I have any hope of forcing them to lift the restriction.  I wouldn't class myself as being particularly big data user; certainly I don't download movies or lots of music.

Here are the details from the line checker tool:
 
Exchange Information:

Distance:- Direct:    669 metres
  (appx)* By Road: 805 metres
  Status   
 ADSL enabled : July 23, 2003
 DSL Max enabled:  March 31, 2006
 SDSL enabled : Not Enabled
 21CN due : (PSTN) No Info
 21CN WBC (Broadband) Not available
  Broadband Access† Market 1

BT Line Speed Estimation :

 Fixed ADSL:  2048 kbps (2 Mb) 
 DSL Max :   8000 kbps (8 Mb) 
  21CN WBC : Not Available 



Here are the stats from my Netgear DG834G router:

System Up Time 610:12:12
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 348807 481205 0 275 2540 57:37:40
LAN 10M/100M 3686875 3989456 0 1629 627 610:12:04
WLAN 11M/54M 1065084 30181 0 240 0 610:11:55
 

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 576 kbps 256 kbps
Line Attenuation 18.0 db 9.5 db
Noise Margin 30.3 db 31.0 db
 

That connection speed of only 576 kbps concerns me: does that mean that Virgin are only granting me access to 576 kbps max (and I'm not even reaching that)?

Or is there just some problem with my line?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike


 
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jeffbb

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2009, 09:03:59 PM »

Hi and welcome


quote  ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 576 kbps 256 kbps
Line Attenuation 18.0 db 9.5 db
Noise Margin 30.3 db 31.0 db
How long has this been like this ?
My guess is that you are on a fixed rate package (0.5 Mbps?). If you were on 8 max you should be synching at 8128Kbps . Your Noise Marging shows there is plenty of  room for increased synch speed .  It does not look like you have any line problems

quote : I'm on the old "Bundle One" package I am not familiar with that package .

Get on to Virgin to sort it out . If you have only 2 days left  on your contract you may  be automatically in for another year? as most Isps need a months notification .

Regards Jeff

Edit typo
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 09:11:09 PM by jeffbb »
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oldfogy

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2009, 09:31:08 PM »


1. Get on to Virgin to sort it out.

2. If you have only 2 days left  on your contract you may  be automatically in for another year?

3. most Isps need a months notification .

1. Definitely talk to Virgin Media.

2. Not necessarily true, your contract was for the first 12 months, and is probably then on a month-to-month basis.

3. Yes possibly 30 days notice may be required.

If you do end-up changing, then don't forget you will also lose your Virgin email, so make arrangements beforehand.
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drmrbrewer

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2009, 09:32:40 PM »

Hi Jeff

Thanks for the reply.

Here's the info on "Bundle One" from my account:  "Your Bundle One includes Up to 8 Mbps broadband and unlimited anytime calls to UK landlines.  Broadband M".  It's quite an old package, and I got it on a discount originally (I've been with Virgin for > 1 year; the current 1 year contract started when I moved home) -- which probably explains why I can't find anything cheaper at the moment.

So it's definitely an 8 Mbps package.   When the router says "Connection Speed 576 kbps" -- is that determined by the provider or the router?  In other words, is this something I can change locally?

It's possible that my "Broadband M" data allowance is being exceeded, and due to that they're limiting my bandwidth to 576 kbps.   However, I would really expect to be told that I'm exceeding my allowance -- wouldn't that normally be the case?

Thanks,

Mike

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drmrbrewer

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 09:34:16 PM »

Thanks, oldfogy.  I don't use the virgin email, so I'm OK there.  Looks like I need a conversation with Virgin.

Mike
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general disquiet

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 09:36:22 PM »

If you want to try a bit of self-help to try and improve things regardless, take a look at http://btbroadbandandhowtosurviveit.blogspot.com/2009/08/self-help-measures-to-try-and-fix-speed.html - lots of links back to other parts of the Kitz site and a couple oth other sites that are primarily for BT, but will help with other ISP's to.
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oldfogy

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2009, 10:02:19 PM »

I wouldn't class myself as being particularly big data user; certainly I don't download movies or lots of music.
Quote
It's possible that my "Broadband M" data allowance is being exceeded, and due to that they're limiting my bandwidth to 576 kbps.   

However, I would really expect to be told that I'm exceeding my allowance -- wouldn't that normally be the case?
No they do not tell or warn you.
Take a look at their "Traffic Management" http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/internet/traffic.html
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orainsear

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 10:03:10 PM »

>>>Connection Speed 576 kbps 256 kbps

This is the connection speed that is negotiated between the router and DSLAM.

Your line may have experienced a period of major instability and subsequently resynchronised with those particularly low speeds.  First up you could try simply turning your router off and on again, and post your stats back here.

Edit: As others have said it does look suspiciously like a 1/2 meg service  :-\
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 11:34:03 PM by orainsear »
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drmrbrewer

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2009, 11:03:58 AM »

OK, Virgin Media have now checked and they claim that they are not applying any bandwidth restriction to my account.  They said that it could be BT who is applying some throttling to my line (I pay BT for my line rental), and have sent me some tests to be performed (see below).

Is it a likely explanation that BT would be artificially restricting my line speed?  By all accounts it seems that my line should be able to take more, so there is some artificial (rather than physical) restriction somewhere.

Are these tests actually going to tell me anything useful?  If my current setup is giving me router stats which don't look horrible (apart from the connection speed), isn't it the case that fiddling around with filters, unplugging phones etc isn't really going to help?

Thanks,

Mike

____________

Here is the email I received:

____________

Dear Customer,

Thank you for your recent contact with us describing your dissatisfaction with the speed of your Virgin Media Broadband service. Before we can escalate this further we firstly need you to complete the below steps. Once we are confident that the problem does not sit with the equipment you are using, or the internal set up (that's stuff like your ADSL filters, extension cables and phones), or a potential problem with the physical 3rd party voice line/connection (some areas of the connection are outside of Virgin Media's ability to resolve) we will be happy to escalate this further and hopefully resolve the issue.
We would suggest that you work through this email step by step as outlined below. On completing each section you can try the connection again, although be aware you may not see a result instantly. If you have not noticed a positive change within 24 hours, then move on to the next section; remember though, if you "undo" any changes made in the previous section, complete that section again before moving on - it's about eliminating all possibilities!
By the way, the tick boxes below are just for you to keep up with what you've done, no information is sent to Virgin Media by ticking them!
Section 1 - PC/Software Related

Before completing the below please see the minimum PC/Apple Mac requirements for Virgin Media broadband. These can be found by clicking here.

Once you have confirmed that your PC/Apple Mac meets the minimum requirements please continue to the below questions to establish whether the fault lays with your PC/Apple Mac or possibly with the Virgin Media broadband connection.

1) Is your PC/Apple Mac generally slow? Yes/No

If the answer to the above question is YES then we would suggest you go through to our Online Chat so one of our technicians can check the PC basics. A slow PC/Apple Mac can cause an internet connection to appear slow - an internet connection can only perform as fast as a PC/Apple Mac will allow.
All done? 

2) Have you performed a full Spyware and Virus scan on the computer? Yes/No

There are many programs available to protect you from Spyware and Viruses. We would suggest that you complete a full system scan on all computers connected to the internet before going any further. If you are using our PCGuard software you will find this product includes protection against both.
All done? 

3) Have you deleted your temporary internet files, cookies and history? Yes/No

For instructions on doing this please use http://support.microsoft.com/kb/260897
All done? 

4) Use the tool "msconfig" and untick all running programs that start on boot.

For instructions on doing this please use http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310560


Please note, once you have tested the connection with everything from msconfig un-ticked, please follow the steps in the link above to enable all of the programs again.
All done? 

5) Uninstall any P2P (Peer to Peer) software

Peer to Peer software can slow an internet connection as it can often upload/download or shares files in the "background" so you might not necessarily be aware that many large files are being shared, therefore slowing your whole internet experience. We can suggest that you remove such software, however we can not be held responsible for any lost or damaged files that you have previously shared (should this happen during removal).

For instructions on doing this please use http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314481 (for PC) and http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=SystemImageUtility/10.5/en/c1os10.html (for Apple Mac).
All done? 

If you experience any problems following the above instructions, if you have any questions or if you would like any further assistance then we would suggest that you use the Online Chat, where one of our technical support agents will be able to explain anything you need to know.

IMPORTANT: Please do not continue onto the next section until you have completed all of the above instructions. If you have not fully completed these we will be unable to raise this issue any further for you.



Section 2 - Hardware

1) Number of PCs connected

You may be lucky enough to have more than one PC or Mac within your property, however if more than one of them is connected at the same time, the bandwidth has to be shared out between them all - causing things to slow down! For the duration of your testing, we would advise that only one PC or Mac is connected and online. This includes any games console that connects to the web as well (PS3, Xbox, Wii etc).
All done? 

2) Your modem or router

Whenever possible, try the connection using the Speedtouch 330 modem that may have been supplied to you in the 'Virgin Broadband Starter Kit', this is because the modem saves the hassle of disabling your wireless connection and plugging/unplugging ethernet cables.
If you are unable to use a Speedtouch 330 modem, and connect via a wireless router instead, please ensure that either the wireless network is security enabled or that the wireless signal is disabled altogether. If you need any help with this, either consult the manufacturer, or contact us using our Online Chat.
All done? 

IMPORTANT: Please do not continue onto the next section until you have completed all of the above instructions. If you have not fully completed these we will be unable to raise this issue any further for you.



Section 3 - Internal Setup

The way you have things setup in the house can have a big effect on what speeds come through to you. Below is a little list on what you need to check for the internal setup. So, can you please ensure you;
1. Swap the ADSL filter attached to the modem/router. 
2. Remove anything you have connected to any phone socket in the house (phones, sky TV, fax machines etc). 
3. Remove any extension cables that may be between the modem/router and phone socket. 
4. If there is any electrical equipment near your modem/router, turn it off - remember not to just put it into standby! 
5. Plug your modem/router into the BT Test Socket, if you don't have one, don't worry, just use the Main Socket!

If you need some help identifying the test socket, click here 
IMPORTANT: Please do not continue onto the next section until you have completed all of the above instructions. If you have not fully completed these we will be unable to raise this issue any further for you.



Section 4 - Testing the speed

OK then! As you've done all of the above, we're well on the way to pinpointing the cause of the problem, and it would suggest that the problem does not lie within your house. The next step is to perform some tests to see what speeds you are actually receiving - different people have different perceptions on what is 'slow'.
Firstly, here is a little indication on what BT, and ourselves, consider acceptable speeds for the different packages you may be on;
100kps or more - acceptable on 512kbps products
200kbs or more - acceptable on 1Mb products
400kbs or more - acceptable on 2Mb, 4Mb & 8Mb products
There are many independent speedtest websites out there, however we will need you to perform your speedtests using the website http://speedtester.bt.com/. The website will ask you for your telephone number, you will need to ensure that this number is the line that you have Virgin Media Broadband on (including area code). Shortly, it will then ask you for your 'username', don't worry, this is just your Virgin username (the one with '@adsl.virgin.net' on the end of it). A speedtest will then be performed on your line, make a note of the results for future reference.
You will need to perform at least 6 of these tests at different times of the day (morning, afternoon and evening) so that we can see if there is any pattern to the test results. If you have any problems performing these tests, come back to our Online Chat and we can help.
IMPORTANT: Please do not continue onto the next section until you have completed all of the above instructions. If you have not fully completed these we will be unable to raise this issue any further for you.



Section 5 - What now?

Once you have worked through the email, you would have eliminated several possible causes of your slow speed problem. If the connection still remains to be slow after this, you would need to contact us so that we can escalate the issue further. To do this you would need to contact our Technical Support Team on 0845 454 2222 and we can take it from there.
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roseway

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2009, 12:54:17 PM »

Gordon Bennett! What a load of tosh from Virgin. Hardly any of that is relevant to your problem, which is a slow connection speed (as seen from the router stats). There is clearly something very wrong, because you have low attenuation and should be able to connect at the full 8 Mbps speed. I suggest that you have a read through the troubleshooting guide which should help to locate the cause of the problem (if it isn't that you are on a fixed speed connection). As you are so far short of what you should be getting, it's going to be something fairly obvious like an unfiltered Sky box / fax / telephone or faulty extension wiring. If all this is in order, then I think that it must be a fixed speed connection, although the upstream connection speed doesn't match any of the standard BT profiles.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 12:57:30 PM by roseway »
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waltergmw

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2009, 01:01:27 PM »

Wouldn't it be much better to divide this tosh into manageable sections ?

For a start just ensure your modem is (even temporarily) plugged into the test socket and if you haven't got an NTE 5 Master socket ensure you don't have any star wiring or disconnect it.

Kind regards,
Walter
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UncleUB

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2009, 01:17:15 PM »

Tbh, Virgin are not alone with telling you all that drivel above.The times(before I found this site) BT had me doing most of those things posted above and not making the slightest difference to my connection.
You have support staff sat behind desks reading from scripted pages,and when they get to the end of the pages and your connection is still the same they don't know what else to do apart from pass you on to someone else as they have little or no knowledge of how broadband works.

Thank god I found Kitz... :thumbs:
« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 01:21:05 PM by UncleUB »
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drmrbrewer

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2009, 01:27:07 PM »

Thanks, guys.  Looks like at least the stuff in Section 3 of Virgin's bumpf is along the lines suggested in the Kitz troubleshooting guide.  So it is the case that my router stats can be showing decent figures and yet it is still a problem in my local environment, such as too many devices using the phone line / dodgy filters / etc?  I'd thought that if the figures showed a decent signal at the router, then everything local is OK, and it must be something remote that is causing the problem?  It's not like the figures show a clean and clear line -- taking account of all the local clutter which may be messing up the signals in my house?

Thanks,

Mike
 
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kitz

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2009, 01:53:29 PM »

Quote
Connection Speed 576 kbps 256 kbps

As pointed out by jeff (and others) that indicates a 0.5Mb fixed speed connection.

Quote
Line Attenuation 18.0 db 9.5 db
Noise Margin 30.3 db 31.0 db

Plenty of spare - your line is good and easily capable of 8Mb on dsl max - or even more with adsl2+ (LLU) provider. :)

Virgin may have you down as bundle One on their systems, but it looks like they have never processed the request to physically get the line upgraded.

Quote
It's possible that my "Broadband M" data allowance is being exceeded, and due to that they're limiting my bandwidth to 576 kbps.  

No - its definitely not that!
They cant cap your sync speed in that way via their FUP - they throttle traffic managed accounts on their equipment, not at the exchange.
576kbps is what the line is physically set at on the exchange.

Quote
They said that it could be BT who is applying some throttling to my line (I pay BT for my line rental), and have sent me some tests to be performed

No! - not possible.
They are shifting the blame...  Tosh is a polite word. ;)

-------------------------------

The signs that it is a fixed rate line. Reasons:-

~ Sync speed is that of a fixed rate 0.5Mb account
~ Upstream sync speed is 256kbps.  If it was maxdsl then it would be 448kbps.
~ The attenuation figures show a line that should get 8Mb easy
~ Plenty of spare SNR Margin..  that line is not on a rate adaptive account.


Quote
So it is the case that my router stats can be showing decent figures and yet it is still a problem in my local environment, such as too many devices using the phone line / dodgy filters / etc?

No.

When you request an 8Mb account, theres 2 places where the ISP has to process this request
1) They set up their side of things so that you can get 8Mb throughput on their systems.
2) They then process an order to BTw requesting that your line at the exchange is upgraded to dslmax.

The signs are that theyve done 1) so it shows up on their systems...   but never done 2) and processed the line request.
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jeffbb

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Re: Please help identify cause of slow speed
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2009, 02:43:54 PM »

Hi

This brings back memories(bad ones) .Its almost a repeat of the problems I had with the dreaded T . They must have the same scripts to fob off the user .  :(

The only way is to keep pushing for escalation until hopefully you reach a level of help that can understand the router statistics .

Regards Jeff
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