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[tuftedduck]

Thank you, orainsear, for your time and trouble in posting further l comments.

This whole business about routers get more complex the more I read of them.

I think I will just leave things as they are..

Thank you again.

[jeffbb]

Hi
quote : I suppose that if you were to buy one from Zen that you may have a slightly easier time of things if it failed, assuming that they very quickly send out a new one (you may want to check that with Zen).

Zen do say that they do not offer support for other routers (ie those not recommended by them) in case of router problems .My guess is that most ISPs would follow that line , but probably not be open about it .
Regards Jeff

[UncleUB]

Although others have had good experiences with the 585v7 I'd be tempted to stay away from it myself.

There's alway someone throwing a spanner in the works. 

I think you have to strike a happy medium when you read reviews/users comments/experiences.

If we made our buying prefences based on 1 poor review/user experience we would never buy anything.

(This is not  a reflection on you Orainsear) I respect your honesty and personal comments. 

[waltergmw]

I hope that there might be some additinal words from Zen on Monday.

I also believe that Zen don't lock their modems and might deprecate those that do !
There is a minor change from Thompson's standard as Zen 585V7s have firmware that displays the Zen logo.
I believe Zen's current 585V7 price is £50.00. I also know on one occasion that they replaced a modem supplied by them FOC on a next day delivery.

Their "Vanilla" modems come preset with all the ADSL settings and includes a very simple wizard that asks for your modem user-name in the form zen123456@zen and your modem password which is a string containing numbers, upper and lower case letters. If you buy their VOIP modem it come completly configured.

Taking the liberty of quoting azzaka he suggests the 585V7 and Broadcom chip-set is more stable on long and noisy lines but on long and "silent" lines the 2Wire or netgear AR7 chipset modems can slightly out-perform them. I have proved this to be so in at least one case which is covered here, and is just about to be updated hopefully for the last time:-

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=4730.0

I can also confirm that Zen have no objection to offering set up advice on Netgear modems.
However if I know I'm installing a long line which could be problematical I like the additional comfort of using Zen supplied equipment.
(I also choose Zen every time around Ewhurst if I have the opportuinty for the same reasons.)

Kind regards,
Walter

[orainsear]

Just to clarify, I haven't used a TG585v7, although was at one point considering purchasing a new one, but reading a number of user experiences across the internet from people who appear to be reasonably skilled individuals put me off getting one.  Having said that I will probably pick one up if I see one cheap enough just to give it a go though; perhaps it was simply a case of ironing out the bugs with the new hardware and firmware, but my main concern with the router is that it appears to be a device that has been designed primarily with cost in mind.

[camallison]

http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=6798

£36.25 inc VAT

[orainsear]

I've just had a look on fleabay and a seller has several for sale (new) BIN for £12.99 + p&p 

[kitz]

I typed the following this am, but had guests and didnt get chance to post till now..  some of it has already been covered but I'm still posting as it contains some additional info too.

------------------

As regards the TG585v7, it is a fairly decent router and you could do a lot worse.

Theres a lot of people that are fans of the Speedtouch routers, but Thompson is easily persuaded by a couple of the UKs largest ISPs.

The ST585 (The TG585's predecessor) was a very good router and well favoured by many techies including myself.  However Thompson were persuaded by one of the ISPs to withdraw some of the more technical tweaks from its firmware.

The TG585v7 appears to have been built in response from another large ISP to produce a cheaper version for shipping out to their customers.  It has a slightly different board than its predecessor and IMHO not quite as good.  The combination of the cheaper board and the restriction in the firmware tweaking has took its popularity down with the techies.


I'm personally not much impressed with the TG585v7s as they are not as good as the ST585s, but its still a lot better than a lot of others.
My own judgement may be clouded because I was beta testing a TG585v7 and it didnt quite cut it for me. It doesnt come up to the standards of the ST585v6 which is what works best on my own line, followed by a Netgear DG834GT (ex-sky).

>>> The question is, if I were to buy the 585v7 from the Zen site, would it be "chipped" in some way so as to make it inoperable with another ISP if I were to ever contemplate another move ?

No Zens aren't locked and have standard Thompson firmware.
Plusnets have PN firmware on, but they arent locked and can be flashed with standard firmware. 

[tuftedduck]

Thank you all for your time and trouble in offering your further advices.

Not sure what to do, will ponder for a bit.

Thank you..

[kitz]

Sorry TD if we've confused you a bit with information overload. :/

TBH in your case since you have such a good line, then your choice of router wont make that much difference.

Your old modem should work just fine as would the Zoom...  its only when you start reaching the maximum speeds for your line that the choice of router can make a big difference.  IIRC your line stats are very similar to my own, and because its so short, its only when you go adsl2+ ( <24Mb) that you will start pushing its limits.

UB on the otherhand has a very long line - 63.5dB is often the maximum attenuation recorded by most routers - therefore in his case we certainly wouldnt recommend either of the models that would work fine on yours. 
Because UB is in a different situation and looking at a package that possibly has a free router thrown in by the ISP, then the TG585v7 is one of the better 'freebies' that you can get and it should work without any problems just fine and is a damn decent 'freebie'.
If  UB was looking to purchase from scratch and if funds would would allow he's probably better spending a few extra £ to go for something like a Netgear DG834Gv4.

Ive seen many instances where the Speedtouches (Thompson) work better on very short lines, (as it does on my own).  Yet on longer lines the Netgears work best.
Possibly some of the confusion has come about because in this thread we are talking about 2 lines that are at different extremes.


My  advice to you TD would be try the Zoom, nothing lost by doing so, it will at least be more secure than your old modem by giving you an additional layer of protection that of the hardware firewall and NAT.

[UncleUB]

Jumping in again TD,sorry. 

UB on the otherhand has a very long line - 63.5dB is often the maximum attenuation recorded by most routers - therefore in his case we certainly wouldnt recommend either of the models that would work fine on yours.
Because UB is in a different situation and looking at a package that possibly has a free router thrown in by the ISP, then the TG585v7 is one of the better 'freebies' that you can get and it should work without any problems just fine and is a damn decent 'freebie'.
If  UB was looking to purchase from scratch and if funds would would allow he's probably better spending a few extra £ to go for something like a Netgear DG834Gv4.

Thanks Kitz,

Yes cost does play a big factor in my choice,so getting the TG585v7  for free makes it a good deal.And taking onboard your comments about it being 'one of the better freebies'then It will be more than likely I will migrate to Plusnet when I'm able.
If cost didn't come into the I would be going with either Zen or Newnet and getting the Netgear DG834Gv4.

[tuftedduck]

You're more than welcome unkyUb, no problems....

Thank you, Kitz, for your further advice and comments and I am sorry to come over as a complete duffer on this router thing.......it's all new to old TD..

Will ponder for a while and then see what is what.........was going to be waiting another few days anyway whilst Netmeter whirs away.....wouldn't want to buy the wrong package..

Thank you again.

[UncleUB]

TD, if you start off with the Zen Lite package which gives you 5GB,you can always move up a package if you find its not enough for your needs.

[UncleUB]

Just had an email from NewNet about a query I made about which routers they supply.

At present we provide Linksys Wag200G routers and Linksys Am200 modems. However this is likely to be changing shortly to Billion routers and modems. We have also until recently provided BT Voyager 2110 wireless routers.
If you purchase a router from us and select the extended maintenance option then this will be configured by us on the helpdesk before it is shipped to you. This will also include remote management so we can login to the router remotely and assist you if required.

I think someone on  here (possibly Eric) has used a Billion router,what are they like etc.

[roseway]

Billion routers aren't very common in the UK, but they are good products with some excellent features. I suppose that I would but them more in the 'professional' class than popular makes like Netgear and Thomson. The one which I've got, and have recently started using again, is the 5200G. I bought this one because of its unique feature that it completely overrides the target noise margin set by DLM, and sets it back at 6 dB, which is a very handy characteristic in some circumstances.