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[witsend]

Hi, was a BT1800 HG fan. Liked HPNA on home telephone wire support. But it died. When I tried to get a replacement from BT, was told it is no longer supplied/supported (as from December 2008 it seems). Question is, what alternative exists that supports HPNA, provides wireless and wired connections, and is as easy to use etc as the 1800HG. Or is that it as far as 2Wire and BT go ...

[BritBrat]

Have you looked at the BT2700HGV?

I don't think it does "HPNA"

Have you tried Ebay for a replacement?

I warn you if you are with BT they will update the firmware to version 6 and you will then be an open wires hotspot, you can not turn it off or go back to older firmware.

But if you are with another ISP you will be fine as far as I know at the moment.

Some information about it here near the bottom.
"As of 4 Feb 09, no 2700HGV hub owner and not using BT as their ISP, has yet reported to me to advise their hub was upgraded to BT v6.x firmware."
http://bt2700hgv.tripod.com/ir1002700HGV.htm

[roseway]

Try here.

(Welcome to the forum by the way )

[witsend]

Thanks for comments. The HG1800 died just before Christmas, and over the whole period (until 7
Jan) I did not have HPNA networking between the family computers nor broadband access. The
best that BT could offer was one very nice tech support chap who explained that while he did
not know why BT had pulled the plug on the HG1800, he could arrange to have the standard
router sent out, free and ASAP. He did and at home I put in some CAT5 cable and we were able
to connect two computers and two radio laptops.  Before that I had 4 computers networked and
up to 4 laptops sharing printing, fileservices, as well as fax and broadband all using existing
phone wiring (though I did boost the power to support it all ...).

HPNA was the reason for gettin the HG1800 in the first place. If BT is not going to support the
HG1800/HPNA it does not seem sensible to buy into replacement hardward. But as far as I can
see, and despite what BT may say on websites, there is no intention formally to support HPNA in
the way they did when they provided the HG1800. The question is what way to go? CAT5 &c
means rewiring (a house build in 1890); if rewiring then moving up to as high a spec glass
might be the better alternative - don't know? Anyway a deal to think about.

Then, yesterday, BT sent me V2.0 of their HG1800 support software out of the blue!! Wassup
one wonders.  I assume, left and right hands not knowing &c.  Alternatively, it may be that I
am entirely wrong and the problems of Christmastide were just a blip, they really are
supporting HPNA and 2Wire kit, and all is apple pie and I should go to ebay and get myself
another HG1800 ...

mmm ...

Regards - Witsend.

[kitz]

The 2wire routers always have had excellent reputations. 
IMHO I think the problem may be the price of the routers which are more expensive than certain other makes.
I was at a conference at an ISP a few years back with an ISP discussing certain routers and I was fortunate to put my mitts on one of then then 2wires which weren't even available at the time in the UK and it was a lovely piece of kit.  The pricing of the 2Wires though couldnt be ignored. 

Conversely I think certain other router manufacturers have turned their attention towards providing bulk routers for certain UK ISPs and meeting the requirements of what they want.... ie cheap mass market routers.
I'm probably speaking out of turn, but the fact is that Thomson certainly do appear to be pandering to certain ISPs

• Replacing the ST585v6 with the TG585v7 cheaper board so it can be cheaply mass marketed but IMHO its not anywhere near as good as the v6.
• Deliberately removing certain aspects of the Broadcom basic firmware functions at the request of one of the UKs largest ISPs.

The Thomson/ST HHs are cheaper than the 2Wires and since Thomson appear to be in cahoots with a couple of the largest UK ISPs, they seem to be ignoring what some of the more technical users want or need in favour of what a couple of the large ISPs want.

/rant

[waltergmw]

Hi Kitz,

I do not consider your thoughts as a rant !
I suggest that a secretive culture, making things even more difficult than they need be for the end users or their agents, when using a quite complex communications technology on lines of differing quality, is a disgraceful aproach. Problem resolution is by far the most important matter and anything inhibiting that process is to be abhorred.

Kind regards,
Walter

[Mick]

I think that Kitz hit the nail on the head with regards to the cheap and cheerful approach that big ISPs have specified for certain router manufacturers.  This is because not many users would be prepared to pay up to £150 for a router these days.  I am not talking about commercial grade routers like Cisco, but vanilla retail routers like Netgear.

The ISPs are doing what is logical given the marketing and pricing model followed by the vast majority of them - throw in a preconfigured 'free' router and lock in the customer for 12-18 months at the same time.  If they are to make their money back then the router will have to be as cheap as chips.

When they start dictating the cost of the router to the various manufacturers then they will of course start specifying a locked down firmware that does not cause them more customer service headaches that they usually get from their customers, especially with new installations.  DMT tweaking of the SNRM goes against the DLM design principle of DSL speed/stability regulation and in the hands of someone who is not as clued up as some of the people who frequent these forums can also cause additional headaches for the ISP.

I have no vested financial interest in any ISP or router manufacturer and can say that IMHO the manufacturing quality of 2WIRE routers is well above your average make out there.  The 2700's in particular have a Faraday cage surrounding their motherboard to minimise electromagnetic interference and also have active noise filtering to hold onto the line more effectively.  I have not yet taken apart any other retail grade router and seen a construction coming anywhere near this level of quality.  Their firmware is not bad either with features like HPNA and VoIP, although the firewall leaves much to be desired (hence I always use them as bridged modems).