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[Chunkers]

Hi guys

OPNsense, fanless N100/N305 barebone router options

I think I will upgrade my PCEngines APU2C4 home router running pfSense in the near future, it has been fantastic for 6 years but I think its time for it to be upgraded and I want to switch to OPNsense, be familiar / up and running before upgrading to (proper) fibre. Sadly PCEngines seem to have ground to a halt with their stuff EOL, no new boards.

Tenbury Wells is due to be upgraded to fibre in the next 12-24 months (we currently only have ADSL on Zen) so plan is to upgrade to a router capable of handling higher throughput before then, option to run with VPN, switch to OPNsense from pfSense, have 2.5 Gb lan capability and get something that will see me through another 6 years or so.

I am currently connected via an ancient Zyxel 8924 acting as ADSL modem and use two Ubiquiti WAP's to cover the house, its 11ac but can't see any need to upgrade wifi until fibre arrives. I have a NAS and a TV server running, 4 adults in the house a lot of the time, all fairly demanding users with lots of devices - we also have a quite a lot of cameras and smart home devices.

Started looking at my options, initially wanted to avoid Chinese stuff but now realise its pointless to even try so been browsing websites and looking at AliExpress / Amazon

Currently leaning towards N100 or N305 box, N305 obviously being more expensive but more cores and higher clock speed. I did like the N5105 also but the N100 offers what appears to be significant performance boost for small price increase, for future proofing I also am inclined to 'go overkill' slightly as long as the power consumption isn't massively increased.

I will probably buy barebone unit and buy my own branded DDR5 SODIMM and SSD drive, looks like I'm not going to save much (if anything) buying off Aliexpress and better off buying on UK Amazon - anyone tried this?  If I add import duty to the Aliexpress prices its basically the same as UK.

Any thoughts or experience you can share?

Chunks

[doofus]

I know the electric bill will be more, but I use standard PC parts.
I use a MicroATX MB, silent Seasonic PSU and a silent Passive CPU cooler (Noctua) on an i3 13100.

Then I can use a standard PCIe (QNAP) dual port Intel NIC,  i225-LM

You will save some money and gain  flexibilty using standard quality parts, and the box is silent.
But - the standby power consumption will higher.. and the box takes up more physical space.

Any extra heat goes into my room, so no big deal.

Swings and roundabouts 

[Chunkers]

I know the electric bill will be more, but I use standard PC parts.
I use a MicroATX MB, silent Seasonic PSU and a silent Passive CPU cooler (Noctua) on an i3 13100.

Then I can use a standard PCIe (QNAP) dual port Intel NIC,  i225-LM

That's interesting, I have an old PC here running OPNsense as a test but I hadn't considering the option of buying low-power new parts and self-build - I'll look into it, thanks!

[doofus]

The main reason I do it this way is for any unexpected down the road hardware problems.

Imagine if the Chinese low power box suffers a motherboard failure? You would be completely fooked.
But if you built using standard parts, you could grab a spare/replacement motherboard easily.

Also standard CPU's are socketed - not soldered onto the MB, so easy to swap. Plus you can use cheap PC RAM vs more expensive Laptop RAM.

[bogof]

I bought a Lenovo M720Q SFF PC, which has a PCIe slot that you can use via a riser board.  I then added a cheap IBM/Lenovo Intel quad PCIe gigabit port card from ebay.  There are also quad and dual 2.5G PCIE cards available, but if you don't need it yet, wait for them to come down and buy later.  You can get the M720Q for around £150 on eBay, they're pretty plentiful.  Not fanless, mind, but pretty quiet.

[Alex Atkin UK]

The main reason I do it this way is for any unexpected down the road hardware problems.

Imagine if the Chinese low power box suffers a motherboard failure? You would be completely fooked.
But if you built using standard parts, you could grab a spare/replacement motherboard easily.

Also standard CPU's are socketed - not soldered onto the MB, so easy to swap. Plus you can use cheap PC RAM vs more expensive Laptop RAM.

I started this journey via ITX builds with that sentiment, then realised in practice it doesn't actually work out that way.  ITX motherboards become completely unobtainable very quickly, so unless you buy a spare from the start (which you wont know if it works or it could die in storage) then you're in a worse position.

Even finding in-stock AM4 boards recently I had next to no choice at all, and those boards alone cost more than my N100,  plus good luck finding a 4-port 2.5Gbit PCIe card.

Newer, more power efficient, appliances are coming out all the time.  Which is why I grabbed the N100 when I already had the N5105, I now have a backup and the total cost between them is less than I'd usually end up spending on a low-end ITX build.  Plus its a whole PC, so you can thoroughly test it and keep it up-to-date.

You just end up with a physically larger box using 2-3x the power and having to build a completely new PC if the motherboard fails anyway.

[Chunkers]

I bought a Lenovo M720Q SFF PC, which has a PCIe slot that you can use via a riser board.  I then added a cheap IBM/Lenovo Intel quad PCIe gigabit port card from ebay.  There are also quad and dual 2.5G PCIE cards available, but if you don't need it yet, wait for them to come down and buy later.  You can get the M720Q for around £150 on eBay, they're pretty plentiful.  Not fanless, mind, but pretty quiet.

This is a clever idea, they seem quite power efficient as well, important to me as by my estimation every additional 10w of power usage is roughly £30 / year.

I started this journey via ITX builds with that sentiment, then realised in practice it doesn't actually work out that way.  ITX motherboards become completely unobtainable very quickly, so unless you buy a spare from the start (which you wont know if it works or it could die in storage) then you're in a worse position.

Even finding in-stock AM4 boards recently I had next to no choice at all, and those boards alone cost more than my N100,  plus good luck finding a 4-port 2.5Gbit PCIe card.

Newer, more power efficient, appliances are coming out all the time.  Which is why I grabbed the N100 when I already had the N5105, I now have a backup and the total cost between them is less than I'd usually end up spending on a low-end ITX build.  Plus its a whole PC, so you can thoroughly test it and keep it up-to-date.

You just end up with a physically larger box using 2-3x the power and having to build a completely new PC if the motherboard fails anyway.

I am pretty much in the same place, I currently think the sweet spot is N100 / N305 - slightly confused about OPNsense ability fully utilise more cores, still looking into this but currently I think the N100 is nice compromise between power consumption, price and power usage (potentially only 6W).

I also like passive, small form factor and built in Intel 2.5 Gb NIC, when I look at custom builds usually by the time I add the NIC it gets a lot more expensive than buying a custom minipc like the CWWK ones

Chunks

[Chunkers]

I placed an order with CWWK directly today for this N305 mini pc. I selected a version from an OEM which appears to have the larger heatsinks and heavier duty case and bought the barebones version and have separately ordered a 16 Gb SODIMM and NVMe drive.

Shipping is likely to be a while from China and CWWK claim I will not be required to pay import duty as they ship with DDP double clearance - I am a little sceptical about this but we shall see what arrives, whether I have to pay duty and how long it takes!

Chunks

[biohead]

I know you've already ordered, but I am currently using a very similar CWWK N305 unit (albeit the 6 LAN version).

Obviously the N305 is waaaaay overkill just to run opnsense, mine is my Proxmox server which also runs pfsense as a VM with passthrough ports.
It also runs a Windows VM, and then a whole load of LXC containers (about 20) running various apps.

For the actual unit, my first one was DOA, AND I was hit by import tax. This was direct from CWWK 
I reordered via an Amazon seller - paid about the same with import tax and was delivered MUCH quicker.
Trying to claim the tax back, as it was returned, is proving a bit tricky!

[Chunkers]

I know you've already ordered, but I am currently using a very similar CWWK N305 unit (albeit the 6 LAN version).

Obviously the N305 is waaaaay overkill just to run opnsense, mine is my Proxmox server which also runs pfsense as a VM with passthrough ports.
It also runs a Windows VM, and then a whole load of LXC containers (about 20) running various apps.

For the actual unit, my first one was DOA, AND I was hit by import tax. This was direct from CWWK 
I reordered via an Amazon seller - paid about the same with import tax and was delivered MUCH quicker.
Trying to claim the tax back, as it was returned, is proving a bit tricky!

That's really interesting, mine arrived a few days ago (delivery time was 9 days from China) but its still in its box and I haven't got around to powering it up yet.  I asked CWWK whether I would have to pay import duty and they responded "Hello, we will deliver the goods with DDP double clearance, you don't have to pay the tariff" - no charge was levied by the courier so it appears to have worked out well, but I have also heard similar stories to yours, seems a bit random. In the past I have also been invoiced for import duty in retrospect by mail, so I may not be out of the woods yet!

C

[meritez]

Watching this with interest
https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/mini-pc-intel-n100-latest-gen-16gb-ddr5-512gb-ssd-dual-ethernet-wifi-4282606

[Alex Atkin UK]

Only just found out this is also a thing.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASROCK-N100DC-ITX-Intel-Q-Core-N100/dp/B0C9JG8L79

[Chunkers]

I got it out of the box, installed the 16Gb RAM and M2 SSD, plugged it in and hit the start button with a USB stick containing OPNsense image and was installed and in the WebUI in under an hour. So straightforward, a bit of an anti-climax nerd-wise. 

I am not going to press it straight into service as I want to fiddle about with the OPNsense install without affecting our home connection, so currently its on a static IP on my LAN. I was interested in power consumption so I have hooked it up to a power monitor, its obviously not under load but it runs at about 12W with nothing attached, during the install I saw 20W briefly and which point I had a keyboard (with lots of LED's!) and mouse attached.

The case is warm to the touch and OPNsense reports 38-43C at zero CPU load, its fairly cool in my room (18c)

I took a few pictures which I have attached for those who are interested, I no longer have webspace so I can't host and link them in the way I used to, sorry ....

C

[Alex Atkin UK]

Not bad, my N100 is idling at 56C and when I say idling I obviously mean there is plenty of traffic, just not doing any heavy downloads.

Interesting you saw only a 20W peak as my PoE adapter fell over booting my N100 and its supposed to handle 36W.  Then again, lots of reviews on Amazon saying it can't handle the claimed load and of course power meters won't report transient peaks either.

[doofus]

New review:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNEmRaMC7qo