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[bogof]

Strange one, my parent's are on FTTC via NowTV / Sky, the performance looks to be pretty poor (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,27504.0.html), so I'm looking to migrate them away.  However we're now only offered ADSL on all the checkers for various ISPs (or not at all, if the ISP no longer offer ADSL, like Cuckoo).  Seems to be a bit of a hole in the system, given that they're already on a port on the FTTC cabinet, and I doubt they would be moved to a different port if it was available. 

Is there any way around this?

I'm also a bit worried that they risk losing their number on migrating.  They are currently with NowTV, having previously been on EE (and before that, BT).  A few days ago when there was cabinet port availability it seems we were being offered FTTC, but often being told it was likely we'd be re-numbered, which will be yet more ear-ache I get, and the risk is probably enough for them not to want to migrate at all...  Just leaving me with the earache everytime their broadband plays up!

[j0hn]

Indeed you can't migrate when the cabinet is full despite you always keeping the same port. There's no way round this. Just keep checking for availability and order once it shows capacity exists.

Many years ago it wasn't uncommon to "lose" your port during an attempted migration when the cabinet was full. Back then ports were often physically changed during a migration.
The system would accept your order despite there being no free ports.
The system would also give away your existing port to the next person who ordered or to someone on the waiting list.

There is no additional risk of losing your telephone number because the cabinet is full of not.
Some providers simply don't support number migrations fully.
Vodafone are (or certainly were) 1 of the worst and try their best to convince you to renumber when migrating to them.
Some providers simply don't support migrating in numbers from LLU providers like Sky.
It all depends on your chosen providers porting agreements and who's number it was originally.
You will probably find it harder to migrate the number out from Sky than you did to migrate it in, with less choice if keeping the number is a necessity.

[bogof]

Indeed you can't migrate when the cabinet is full despite you always keeping the same port. There's no way round this. Just keep checking for availability and order once it shows capacity exists.

Many years ago it wasn't uncommon to "lose" your port during an attempted migration when the cabinet was full. Back then ports were often physically changed during a migration.
The system would accept your order despite there being no free ports.
The system would also give away your existing port to the next person who ordered or to someone on the waiting list.

There is no additional risk of losing your telephone number because the cabinet is full of not.
Some providers simply don't support number migrations fully.
Vodafone are (or certainly were) 1 of the worst and try their best to convince you to renumber when migrating to them.
Some providers simply don't support migrating in numbers from LLU providers like Sky.
It all depends on your chosen providers porting agreements and who's number it was originally.
You will probably find it harder to migrate the number out from Sky than you did to migrate it in, with less choice if keeping the number is a necessity.

What a load of rubbish.  So effectively once the cabinet is full you're basically stuck with a poor provider until such a point as you can get an order to go through, for no obvious reason?  Is this stuff held together with wet string and sticky tape?

I can see I'm opening myself up to a world of pain getting involved in trying to migrate them. 
EE can't migrate the number, and offer only ADSL.
Plusnet appear to be able to migrate back, but no offer of FTTC, just ADSL.
BT can migrate the number back.  Interestingly, if you try to progress the ADSL order with BT, at some point in the process it realises you have an FTTC connection, and it removes all the ADSL options and just gives you the FTTC options, BUT it removes all the introductory offers - so no 6 months half price for you! 

Wet string and sticky tape?  Methinks that was generous.  Peanut butter and the tears of small children are holding this lot together...

[meritez]

You can convert to SOGEA.

[bogof]

You can convert to SOGEA.

How would that work in terms of retaining the number?  I don't think NowTV can convert the line to SOGEA or that even if they could it would be any help in terms of retaining their number?
Does that depend on having a VOIP provider lined up to first port out the number?  Does anyone know which VOIP providers might port out a number?
What happens if you port out the number on an existing PSTN + FTTC line - does it cease the service? 
 
I'm not sure I'll be very popular explaining that they'll lose their "proper" landline.  I know it's coming at some point, but it's not here yet...

[dee.jay]

Indeed you can't migrate when the cabinet is full despite you always keeping the same port. There's no way round this. Just keep checking for availability and order once it shows capacity exists.

Many years ago it wasn't uncommon to "lose" your port during an attempted migration when the cabinet was full. Back then ports were often physically changed during a migration.
The system would accept your order despite there being no free ports.
The system would also give away your existing port to the next person who ordered or to someone on the waiting list.

There is no additional risk of losing your telephone number because the cabinet is full of not.
Some providers simply don't support number migrations fully.
Vodafone are (or certainly were) 1 of the worst and try their best to convince you to renumber when migrating to them.
Some providers simply don't support migrating in numbers from LLU providers like Sky.
It all depends on your chosen providers porting agreements and who's number it was originally.
You will probably find it harder to migrate the number out from Sky than you did to migrate it in, with less choice if keeping the number is a necessity.

Migrating your number out of Sky is not impossible but it is difficult: -

1. I attempted to migrate broadband to AAISP from Sky and keep number - not possible
2. You can port number to AAISP from Sky but this ceases your broadband - but then you can order new broadband on that new line afterwards - but then that leaves you without service for 2-3 weeks. In my case not a problem with two lines.

But yes, it's not a simple process if you absolutely *need* your number and an internet connection at the same time

[bogof]

Thanks, useful info.

I'd prefer not to migrate them to a VOIP setup at the moment if I can avoid it.  They're getting on a bit and I like the idea of them having a real PSTN phone line for as long as possible, there just seems to be a bit more chance of it working than VOIP over FTTC.

I did migrate my own number to AAISP VOIP when I moved to FTTP.  I took a new FTTP line, then once it was working moved the number to AAISP VOIP, which ceased the FTTC line.  But going through that process with them would mean ordering a new FTTC line (they can't get FTTP, even though they're about 20 doors down the road from me).  I don't really fancy paying out for a new line install.

I think I'm just going to have to be hawkishly looking out for some availability to open up at the cabinet, and then move them to BT with PSTN (BT seem to be trying their hardest to hide that option, but they do still offer it around here!).

[meritez]

How would that work in terms of retaining the number?  I don't think NowTV can convert the line to SOGEA or that even if they could it would be any help in terms of retaining their number?
Does that depend on having a VOIP provider lined up to first port out the number?  Does anyone know which VOIP providers might port out a number?
What happens if you port out the number on an existing PSTN + FTTC line - does it cease the service? 
 
I'm not sure I'll be very popular explaining that they'll lose their "proper" landline.  I know it's coming at some point, but it's not here yet...

You can simultaneously convert to SOGEA and port the number to VoIP.
All you need is a capable Openreach engineer.

If you're looking at leaving sky/now you'll need to be removed from their llu line for the voice.
This is where it can fall down and why spare port on the street cabinet helps, as at present your parents line doesn't physically exist on the BT wholesale network, making migration a PITA.

A competent Communication Provider like A&A could try and move it, but Sky doesn't have any wholesale partners.

[Weaver]

As Meritez says, get A&A to sort it all out for you.

[tubaman]

As Meritez says, get A&A to sort it all out for you.

I suspect @bogof parents originally went for Sky/NowTV broadband because it is very cost efficient and going to A&A will cost a lot more.

[bogof]

I suspect @bogof parents originally went for Sky/NowTV broadband because it is very cost efficient and going to A&A will cost a lot more.

Yes, it's a difficult one.  They are quite price sensitive.  Also quite heavy users (one or other or several TVs streaming 12hrs a day easily) so metered usage would probably have to be the highest tier at AAISP,   
They're also very proud, so without being outright devious they probably wouldn't wear me topping up their payment to something like AAISP.

And as I say, I'm not 100% convinced it is the best solution for them.  I'm not sold on the virtues of moving the telephony to VOIP vs PSTN, which it sounds like would have to happen for the above to be an option.  They do rely on the landline a lot, with mobiles relegated to emergency use only (unlike how most of us tend to operate these days).  VOIP on FTTC is just another level of failure potential I'd rather them not be exposed to; our cab in City centre is aged and occasionally vandalised, their line is buried, etc. 

[dee.jay]

I suspect @bogof parents originally went for Sky/NowTV broadband because it is very cost efficient and going to A&A will cost a lot more.

We also get what we pay for

[tubaman]

@bogof - has a complaint been put into Sky about the current performance?

[j0hn]

I think I'm just going to have to be hawkishly looking out for some availability to open up at the cabinet, and then move them to BT with PSTN (BT seem to be trying their hardest to hide that option, but they do still offer it around here!).

BT don't give the option of PSTN or their Digital Voice. It's just sold as broadband with a phone line. The online ordering gives no indication which would be used.
Their Digital Voice rollout is in full flow again so almost certainly it would be via VOIP and not PSTN.

Their call centre staff don't know how it will be provisioned and have no ability to pick 1 or the other.
BT are migrating existing customers to VOIP en masse so even if you managed to somehow get them on PSTN with BT there's no guarantee they won't just write to them in a month or 2 telling them they are being changed.

THE WLR/PSTN stop sell comes in to effect in September this year with the service closing 2 years after that.
Providers want to be ahead of any deadlines though.

A&A VOIP should be the last recommendation for anyone complaining about issues migrating their number out.
A reminder of their VOIP porting terms

VoIP Services: We have very limited porting agreements in place so it is unlikely you will be able to port any number to another provider of your choice, although you may be able to port it back to the original provider if it is not one of our numbers originally.

[bogof]

@bogof - has a complaint been put into Sky about the current performance?

Not yet, though I've observed the same anomalies at the same times on someone else's random BQMs when viewed simultaneously with theirs, so I'm assuming much of what they are seeing is related to network issues that my voice is likely to have little impact on.  I have little energy to get into discussing those kind of matters with them...