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Author Topic: Noise on the line  (Read 2120 times)

burakkucat

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2022, 05:37:30 PM »

The curious cat is puzzled!

Looking from Melville Road (with Google Street View images dated 2009), first to the south and then to the north, no railway line is visible. It is still very much a path.  ???
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atkinsong

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2022, 06:02:07 PM »

Google street view dated Aug 2021 shows the railway passing under Melville Road, adjacent to the exchange.
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burakkucat

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2022, 06:26:46 PM »

Google street view dated Aug 2021 shows the railway passing under Melville Road, adjacent to the exchange.

So there is. Thank you.

D'oh!  :doh: 
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Edinburgh_lad

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2022, 07:56:17 PM »

Hello everyone and thank you all for your help.

That's incredible, @J0hn, to hear that you're in Dalkeith, too! What are the chances of that?!

In response to everyone else's messages, I don't think the railway line is the cause of our problem. It's around 100m away from where I stay. Plus, it's not electrified but operated using diesel trains. I understand that there are probably electric cables that run along, but at least it's not like it's overhead wires and electric trains introducing huge outbursts of noise. Plus, the trains run here every hour, so I'd see more regular outbursts of noise, which isn't the case. I think the noise is local - see below.

From what I established, the tel. line in our area goes from the Exchange to Eskbank Toll and then branches off, into adjacent streets. From the Exchange to our pole, it goes underground all the way along. The cabinet is at the Exchange itself, and it's Broadcom.

I have a suspicion (and this is only a suspicion) that the cause of noise could be coming from one of the flats nearby. That flat is currently unoccupied and has been so for the past couple of months, meaning that our line has been more stable than before. However, the owners have recently been back and so it looks like that every time they're there, this outburst of errors occurs (there are there only on some days and at certain times). Previously, when that flat had different owners, they didn't stay there one winter and it was also a stable winter for us, which is why I thought this might be relevant. Other than that, when we had ADSL2+, it was interleaved in the winter (9db-12db) and back to fastpath in the summer (3db-6db). But we didn't work from home then, so it wasn't an issue at the time, and we didn't mind those disconnections while watching 'cooncil TV'.

This is of course speculation, but I wanted to ask: would it be possible for someone's boiler, hot water tank to introduce noise on the neighbouring tel. line? How far does the noise travel? Would it be intensified if there's a problem with one socket not being properly grounded, for example? Should I be looking for it in the nearby flats or also in the adjoining streets, in which case it's probably Sisyphean job? I've read reports of a whole village getting disconnected by a faulty TV. When I asked a British Gas engineer that came to replace the motor in our boiler, he said it was mainly devices like timers that could be introducing noise. (Below is another screenshot with a dip in SNR.)

The electric cables to the properties here run underground, too. When I walked in the street with the AM radio on, there was a distinct noise coming from that flat in question, but not others. But then, when you put the radio near electrical equipment, that noise is there too. So, is it the intensity of the noise that I should be paying attention to? Also, the issue is certainly local because the Exchange appears to see everything as ok.

We asked Openreach to get us a REIN engineer, but after they collected samples from our master socket, they said they didn't think it was REIN. Nothing got escalated, even though we asked for a senior Openreach engineer, as seemingly they don't exist in the company. Also, in their Terms and Conditions (or something similar), it says they're not responsible for any noise being introduced by customers, and if there is something like that, they don't usually investigate it, unless it was the whole estate/village.

I believe the neighbours also have problems (as they have told me so), but as I said previously, most are retired and don't mind whether or not their email doesn't immediately send to the local café to reserve a place (Dalkeith Palace), though one summer, when the windows were open, I did overhear one of them getting very frustrated with Alexa not wanting to play their favourite list.  To get them to phone their ISP would be a major issue.

What I'm bitter about is that neither Plusnet nor Openreach are being honest with us. If they simply said that there's an HR fault and because the area is due to be upgraded, they'd not fix it, we'd be fine with that. Equally, if there's an issue with interference, then why not simply tell us.

There are also now blue markings near the poles (pointing to BT poles or BT manhole covers) on the nearby roads/pavements, which I presume are related to FTTP deployment. Virgin Media have announced that they are coming into the area, too, so I presume there's a bit of competition going to be going on.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2022, 09:04:35 PM by Edinburgh_lad »
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g3uiss

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2022, 09:45:20 AM »

Those reductions in SNRM are minor although these stats are very limited.
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burakkucat

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2022, 05:37:53 PM »

Looking again at the Dalkeith telephone exchange, I can see a big Huawei cabinet, a PCP and one other cabinet. Fortunately none look like an ECI cabinet. However there is still the land at the Weir Crescent side of the exchange that I can't examine. So who knows what lurks there.

Unfortunately all the data you have (so far) shown, obtained from your FRITZ!Box, really does not tell anything.  :(
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 05:40:17 PM by burakkucat »
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meritez

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2022, 07:55:21 PM »

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g3uiss

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2022, 07:57:53 PM »

Usually some evidence of activity such as antennas and beams ?
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Edinburgh_lad

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2022, 08:54:24 PM »

is it amateur radio?

http://rsgb.org/main/files/2019/10/How-to-identify-VDSL-interference-v1.0.pdf

But that article is about the effect of VDSL signal on amateur radio. What our line is suffering from seems to be the opposite: the effect of something on VDSL signal.
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Edinburgh_lad

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2022, 08:59:05 PM »

Looking again at the Dalkeith telephone exchange, I can see a big Huawei cabinet, a PCP and one other cabinet. Fortunately none look like an ECI cabinet. However there is still the land at the Weir Crescent side of the exchange that I can't examine. So who knows what lurks there.

Unfortunately all the data you have (so far) shown, obtained from your FRITZ!Box, really does not tell anything.  :(
Cheers.

Why fortunately no ECI? Are they that bad?

That's interesting that you showed those cabinets because I thought our cabinet would be in the Exchange building itself. Very interesting.

With regards to data: what should I use to collect information? Plusnet had sent us a new Zyxel 8924, which judging from reports on here sounds like a good router. I don't like the looks of it (sorry! I think Fritzbox is nicer in design :)) but, primarily, because its firmware is old, I'm always apprehensive about using it.

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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2022, 11:20:44 PM »

Cheers.

Why fortunately no ECI? Are they that bad?

That's interesting that you showed those cabinets because I thought our cabinet would be in the Exchange building itself. Very interesting.

With regards to data: what should I use to collect information? Plusnet had sent us a new Zyxel 8924, which judging from reports on here sounds like a good router. I don't like the looks of it (sorry! I think Fritzbox is nicer in design :)) but, primarily, because its firmware is old, I'm always apprehensive about using it.

My understanding is VDSL is strictly kept away from the building to avoid excessive crosstalk.  You also want the shortest line possible from the cabinet to your modem.
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g3uiss

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2022, 09:24:05 AM »

Quote

Why fortunately no ECI? Are they that bad?

The main reason I understand that they are not favoured as they don’t offer g.inp and hence the ability to run at lower SNRM  giving slightly better speeds. ECI only offer interleave as a noise protection.
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j0hn

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2022, 09:27:22 AM »

Why fortunately no ECI? Are they that bad?

Yes, they are.
ECI cabinets don't support Vectoring, they don't support upstream G.INP.
Their downstream G.INP causes so many issues that Openreach have abandoned rolling it out numerous times over the last 6-7 years.
The ECI's can only serve a max of 256 lines.

The Huawei cabinets with their Broadcom chipset are much more capable, supporting all of the above. In addition the Huawei cabinets can be upgraded to do node level Vectoring (across multiple DSLAM's) and they can also be upgraded to support VDSL2 Profile 35b, though we will never see that.
The larger Huawei cabinets can also be expanded to serve up to 384 lines.

Huawei isn't bad just because the yanks tell us they are. They have been making fantastic telecoms equipment long before Donald Trump could spell sanctions.

Quote
That's interesting that you showed those cabinets because I thought our cabinet would be in the Exchange building itself. Very interesting.

VDSL2 cabinets are never placed inside the exchange building. They are usually in the exchange car park or just outside the exchange boundary on the street.

Cabinets are usually placed outside the exchange boundary on smaller exchanges so that eventually the exchange could be closed without having to move the cabinets.
Dalkeith (ESDAL) is a Head-End exchange so it won't be closing so there's no issue putting the cabinets in the exchange grounds.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2022, 03:24:51 PM »

Cabinets are usually placed outside the exchange boundary on smaller exchanges so that eventually the exchange could be closed without having to move the cabinets.
Dalkeith (ESDAL) is a Head-End exchange so it won't be closing so there's no issue putting the cabinets in the exchange grounds.

That's a good point.
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burakkucat

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Re: Noise on the line
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2022, 04:52:43 PM »

Dalkeith (ESDAL) is a Head-End exchange so it won't be closing so there's no issue putting the cabinets in the exchange grounds.

I wasn't sure, so I didn't mention it. However I was fairly sure that you would know . . . So, thank you for the update.  :)
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