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Author Topic: Illegal Immigrants  (Read 6912 times)

chrissie

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Re: Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2008, 07:09:55 AM »

davem makes the point that a I have never been able to understand and I dearly wish someone would explain it to me. I refer to the 1951 Convention regarding the requirement for the genuine refugee/asylum seeker to seek sanctuary in the first safe country that they reach.
Nobody really reaches the UK (unless they fly in) without travelling through many safe countries. That being so, why can't the authorities just send them back to one of these countries, which would presumably be quite legal? All of those people sitting in Calais should be returned immediately or claim asylum in France. The British immigration authorities are surely within their rights on this matter?
I live in an area of high unemployment which has been particularly bad with the demise of the steel/coal mining and heavy industries and yet you cannot go anywhere now without encountering foreigners. I can't understand how they are getting by giving the employment situation up here. I presume they must be living off the state.
It's a recipe for disaster. 

Have to agree entirely... what has happened to this "rule" or doesn't it apply in this country (like most things don't).  Time will tell and what a sorry tale will come up, though that's just one of the legacy's we are leaving our future generation....

Chrissie
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scottiesmum

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Re: Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2008, 11:46:26 AM »

France as a signatory  to  the Schengen Agreement, has open borders,   therefore as far as anyone coming into France is concerned there is no immediate control on who enters the country.    Notwithstanding, when/if they find illegal entrants they are dealt  with swiftly; there are  random ID checks and anyone who is found without the proper papers is kept in custody until their proper ID is confirmed and if necessary repatriated. Not too long ago there were a group of about 24,000 people without proper papers from one particular African area,  the ones who had children in schools here were  subsequently allowed to stay, about 6,000 in total  - the rest were deported to their original country.     This does not include anyone from the EEC as they have the 'right' to stay here if they choose, although  even as a member of the EEC if they don't speak the language they will have numerous difficulties; they are not automatically entitled to health cover; no rights to Social Security, they would receive NIL from the state. Employment would be out of the question without the language. 

Because the UK is not signatory to the Schengen Agreement  with regard to the freedom  of movement of people,  it is up to the UK to protect/police its borders.   Anyone leaving the jurisdiction of French Territory, at the ports  and the Channel Tunnel, will be subject to strict passport/ID  controls...... In the case of the  Channel Tunnel  following this procedure they automatically enter the UK zone, staffed by UK customs personnel, even though they are still in France; it is up to these  UK personnel  to enforce controls before embarkation; you may yourself have passed through this, as I have several times.     In the case of the ports,  at the point of entry, it is the UK  authorities who are responsible for controlling who enters the country, just as it is at  UK Airports.    The reason why the UK is not a full  member of Schengen is because  they want to retain control at  their own borders, although they have adopted some aspects of Schengen cooperation, namely police and judicial cooperation in criminal matters, the fight against drugs and the Schengen Information System (SIS).

France has its own  immigrant situation,   you may  remember the riots in the outskirts of several towns here 2 years ago which were predominantly in 'immigrant areas'.  France has also suffered an upturn in crime following the opening of borders with Eastern Block countries.   It may surprise you, or not, that France has the largest Muslim population in Europe.  The difference here as I've said previously, is that everyone has to speak French; there are definitely no willy nilly handouts; the children have to be educated in French schools; there are no outwardly religious insignia allowed in schools, ie.   the veil, the skull cap, the crucifix.    People are, of course, allowed to dress as they wish outside of schools.  Having said that, as recent as last week a Moroccan woman was denied French Citizenship, despite the fact that she has lived here  for several years,  married to a French National for 5 years and has children who are obviously French; this was because she wore the burkah, which was regarded as a 'submissive act'  and the Council of State, the country's highest administrative court found that  this was “incompatible with the essential values of the French community and, notably, the principle of equality of the sexes.”    This decision has been applauded throughout France by people on all sides of the political spectrum.    The problem that the UK faces sadly is self made; not by the public of course, but by the powers that be who  appear to have eroded everyone else's rights whilst appeasing minority groups.    The powers that be here would not be tolerated if they did that.        When the Sangette Centre was operating near to the Ports at Calais and Boulogne, the French authorities had a modicum of control whereby, intending illegal entrants into the UK , were processed and subsequently dealt with.    Mr. Blunkett,   the then Home Secretary, in his wisdom; no doubt with the backing of his leader, demanded the closure of this centre.   I'm not suggesting that the previous system was fool proof, evidently not !  but it was somewhere where 'illegal' people would be incarcerated.   Now the ones that are not picked up and dealt with on this side of the channel are left to their own devices, and those include their absolute resolute to get to the UK because there they receive handouts that are JUST NOT handed out here.     I am not for one moment demeaning the apparent problems in the UK, it is very sad for me,  looking at news reports and listening to friends, seeing a decline in standards of all kinds ( and not all caused by immigrants)  it is certainly not the UK I left 15 years ago.   I also appreciate that living in the rural area I do I am somewhat cosseted.  Nevertheless, I think if I were a person living in a poverty stricken country, without  prospects, no food for me or my family,  and someone told me there was a land of milk and honey where everything is provided, I would make a beeline for it too .....   it is the system  that is flawed.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 11:51:37 AM by scottiesmum »
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chrissie

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Re: Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2008, 02:07:14 PM »

The problem that the UK faces sadly is self made; not by the public of course, but by the powers that be who  appear to have eroded everyone else's rights whilst appeasing minority groups.    The powers that be here would not be tolerated if they did that.       

How right you are with all you've said....and definitely that this country's problem is of its own making with appeasing the minority groups.  Nothing will change here until the powers that be reverse that and think and care for the indigenous population more than immigrants and the like..  I'm not holding my breath though, what a pity the British public aren't more contentious and act a little more like the French.... c'est la vie, esp in Britain!

Chrissie
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poppy

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Re: Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2008, 05:50:55 PM »

Would just like to say how interesting and informative I found the post by scottiesmum.
Obviously, France has very different ideas about how to deal with this dilemma.
With regards to how they deal with the language difficulties, it sounds as if it is very different to here.
I have first-hand knowledge of how this is crippling the Judicial system in the UK and if the taxpayer knew how bad it is there would be a revolt. Commonly there are long court lists say, for instance, motoring offences. Many of them will be immigrants who do not (or don't want to know) our system.
If their English language skills are not adequate the cases are adjourned for an interpreter to be arranged. The cost of this service is enormous and none of it is passed on to the offender. If found gullty, the costs are always paltry and often lowered or not awarded due to limited income. The same occurs in police stations, NHS clinics, hospitals and other institutions. Millions and millions of pounds are being spent and the cost is ever-rising. I can see a time when it will bankrupt the country.
Interpretation services should not be born by the state but by the person themselves IMO.
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oldfogy

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Re: Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2008, 06:04:09 PM »

Quote

...... the powers that be who  appear to have eroded everyone else's rights whilst appeasing minority groups

The only minority group in this country are the people that were born here.

No doubt there a "few" areas in the country that are not overwhelmed with immigrants, but they are very few and far between and are themselves in the minority.

Just like the news stories that you never get to hear about, because they do not want you to know the real truth.
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