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Author Topic: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup  (Read 5481 times)

tiffy

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VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« on: May 10, 2020, 12:05:15 PM »

Have decided to change my VDSL-2 line to a 2 box, Modem/Router setup the main considerations being:
1/. Provide gigabyte capability throughout my wired LAN system.
2/. Provide the ability to "mess about" with the router without disturbing my VDSL connection & annoying DLM.
3/. Make use of the many additional features available with a modern router.

As per the choice of many of the experienced forum patrons, will utilise my existing ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A as a modem and I have on order an Asus RT-AC68U for router service.
I intend to run Asuswrt-Merlin firmware on the router, again, as per the preference of many users.
Have been looking around for a S/H Asus RT-AC68U for quite some time, appear to hold their price very well and usually sell very quickly not that much cheaper than new units, so for the sake of warranty etc. have ordered new from Amazon.

There are many guides and previous posts available regarding setting up the 2 units in bridge configuration and in particular the ability to achieve a wired LAN connection to the modem in a 1 or 2 ethernet cable mode, will be using these as guidance.

In anticipation of the setup, a few point I would appreciate clarification on:

1/. I monitor my line stat's 24/7 with a RPi3B running DSLStats, I presume this will remain connected to the XyXEL (now modem only) to harvest the DSL stat's ?
     (ie. do I provide the IP address of the modem or the router to DSLStats)
2/. Within my LAN will the designated WAN gateway be the routers or the modems IP address ?
     (I need to designate the gateway IP address within some scripts I run on RPi's)
3/. Should I disable DHCP on the ZyXEL modem as well as Wi-Fi as the Asus router will now perform these functions ?

Edit: Posted by mistake before completion, edited to correct:
     
« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 12:36:03 PM by tiffy »
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burakkucat

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2020, 01:34:50 PM »

When the ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A is configured as a bridging modem, looking towards your ISP/CP, it should be configured as three end-points of --
  • VDSL2 (ITU-T G.993.2) from/to the cabinet DSLAM.
  • Packet transfer mode (PTM) from/to the cabinet DSLAM.
  • A virtual LAN (VLAN), tagged as 101, from/to deeper into the access network.
Looking towards your LAN, it should just provide/consume Ethernet frames.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2020, 03:11:57 PM »

1/. I monitor my line stat's 24/7 with a RPi3B running DSLStats, I presume this will remain connected to the XyXEL (now modem only) to harvest the DSL stat's ?
     (ie. do I provide the IP address of the modem or the router to DSLStats)
It depends how you go about it.  The easiest method is to have the modems LAN as a static IP address outside the routers DHCP range and plug one of the LAN ports into a router LAN port.

A more complicated method could use the single cable in the WAN port and some fiddling on the router to allow it to talk to both the WAN and the LAN side of the modem down the single cable, but personally I'm not fond of that as I'm not convinced some LAN traffic can't leak out the WAN side that way, at the very least wasting a bit of bandwidth.

2/. Within my LAN will the designated WAN gateway be the routers or the modems IP address ?
     (I need to designate the gateway IP address within some scripts I run on RPi's)
It will be the routers IP address, the modem is invisible to the LAN and in effect the router, as it thinks its talking straight to the ISP network.  The only thing the router does is establish a PPPoE connection.

3/. Should I disable DHCP on the ZyXEL modem as well as Wi-Fi as the Asus router will now perform these functions ?   
Correct.
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tiffy

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2020, 04:46:58 PM »

Thanks to both for the very informative replies, much appreciated.

With respect to the RPi (DSLStats) LAN connection:
Quote
It depends how you go about it.  The easiest method is to have the modems LAN as a static IP address outside the routers DHCP range and plug one of the LAN ports into a router LAN port.

A more complicated method could use the single cable in the WAN port and some fiddling on the router to allow it to talk to both the WAN and the LAN side of the modem down the single cable, but personally I'm not fond of that as I'm not convinced some LAN traffic can't leak out the WAN side that way, at the very least wasting a bit of bandwidth.

Yes,will likely opt (initially anyway) for the 2 cable connection mode, I plan to give the new router the existing ZyXEL modem/router's IP address and allocate a new IP address to the (now) ZyXEL modem.
I always allocate fixed IP addresses by MAC's to all my LAN devices and plan to do the same on the Asus router.
I do the same with my Wi-Fi connections by MAC filtering.

Just to be absolutely clear, DSLStats will still collect it's data from the ZyXEL (now modem) via the Rpi ?

Questions 2 & 3 very clearly and comprehensively answered, thank you.

Still awaiting delivery of my Asus RT-AC68U from Amazon, I resolutely refuse to be forced/tricked into signing up to Prime and I'am periodically "punished" for doing so, this item is one such instance, 10 days proposed delivery on an in stock item.
Can't really blame the current Covid-19 restrictions as my recent Amazon orders (non Prime, free postage) have been remarkably fast.
Anyway, another topic not relevant to this post which has been well aired previously.   
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burakkucat

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2020, 05:42:22 PM »

Just to be absolutely clear, DSLStats will still collect it's data from the ZyXEL (now modem) via the Rpi ?

Yes, correct. The VMG1312-B10A will still have an RFC1918 IPv4 address, as it is a device in its own right . . . and it will be via the modem's management/configuration address that R-Pi would harvest the data.
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Westie

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2020, 05:42:44 PM »

Quote
Just to be absolutely clear, DSLStats will still collect it's data from the ZyXEL (now modem) via the Rpi ?

That is correct.

I have a similar setup, but both the modem and router are different brands from yours.

Edit: Paws obviously type faster than fingers!!  :D
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vic0239

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2020, 06:18:10 PM »

I have adopted the single cable method. I have the bridge Interface Group on a different subnet to the LAN with its own IPv4 address (see attachment) and a corresponding subnet defined on the WAN interface of my router. I can access the modem by coding the interface group address in DSLstats and save the clutter of another cable.  :)

Code: [Select]
  <subnet name="VMG1312-1"
          ip="192.168.2.2/24"
          gateway="192.168.2.1"/>

Edit: Sorry, having issues with the screenshot, iPad not helping. Bear with, as they say.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 06:44:50 PM by vic0239 »
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tiffy

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2020, 07:36:51 PM »

Thanks again to all.

Looking forward to the challenge as soon as Amazon decide to release the "non Pime" goods from their grasp.

@vic0239:
Have been reviewing the single cable method, I am unclear as to exactly where and how the necessary code is implemented ?
I believe the Asus router has the capability of running user scripts don't think the Zyxel has ?
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vic0239

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2020, 09:41:38 PM »

On the ZyXel the interface group is set up as per this guide and is part of the standard GUI functionality. Whether you can easily set the subnet on your router will depend on the flexibility of its interface configurator. I’m using a Firebrick from Andrews and Arnold which appears to make the process quite straightforward, at least it seems so to my less than expert capability.  ;)
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tiffy

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2020, 08:13:26 AM »

@vic0239:

Thanks for the further information.
Have already "digested" the excellent kitz bridging guide which although is for a ZyXEL VMG8324 appears to have a very similar GUI to my VMG1312-B10A, i'am sure the procedure will be virtually the same.

Hope to have the Asus router on hand later this week when I can have a play with it's capabilities which I believe are quite extensive especially when running the third party Merlin firmware.
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tiffy

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2020, 05:17:10 PM »

Alas, will have to wait a bit longer for the new toy, Amazon have knocked back delivery to next Monday, that will be just under 2 weeks for an in stock item, they have decided to use Hermes which is unusual in our area, would appear they have ramped up the "non-prime" uptake punishment a level, happened before until I registered a complaint then it suddenly reverted to normal until recently.
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Weaver

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2020, 01:11:08 AM »

I don’t understand why two cables are required or perhaps I should say ‘chosen’, instead if just one. Recap: I don’t need two cables. My Firebrick router like vic0239 just uses a single cable per modem (four ZyXel VMG1312-B10A units). Each modem’s admin i/f IPv4 address is at 192,168.n.1 (where n=1,2,3,4) and the Firebrick’s address on each Firebrick-to-modem link subnet is at 192.168.n.254; so it happens to look just like Kitz’ article which I had not read. I did not use Andrews and Arnold’s standard configuration to handle the business of obtaining stats from multiple modems, which uses multiple TCP ports to access the various modems. I use kitizen Johnson’s superb custom firmware in the modem and that contains a second http server displaying stats via http://192.168.n.1/8000; IP v4 delivers control and configuration via http and the second port 8000 Johnson stats server shows graphs of chronological stats, stats per bin and raw stats figures in ascii text form. The Firebrick Internally redirects the traffic from the modems’ graphs and stats http 8000 server and control/admin/config http server onto the main LAN, so I don’t need a second cable to convey stats/config/control traffic to the main LAN, one cable carries PPPoEoE traffic to the internet multiplexed with the two lots of IPv4 http traffic for stats/graphs and control/admin. The PPPoEoE traffic does not have IP addresses, it’s L2 traffic, albeit containing payload that is IPv6 over PPP and IPv4 over PPP, so the multiplexing keeps everything apart.
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j0hn

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2020, 03:44:50 AM »

Quote
I don’t understand why two cables are required or perhaps I should say ‘chosen’, instead if just one.

It isn't a choice most of the time.

Using 1 cable can't be done with most consumer routers.
It can't be done with any ISP provided kit with a WAN port that I know of.

Asus routers even require 3rd party firmware to achieve it.

Using a single cable requires modifying iptables which can't be done with lots of consumer kit.

It's cheaper and easier just to connect a 2nd Ethernet cable for accessing stats.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 02:14:57 PM by j0hn »
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Weaver

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2020, 04:37:04 AM »

Thanks J0hn, it’s down to the internal routing/redirection capabilities of some routers then?
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johnson

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Re: VDSL-2 Modem/Router 2 Box Setup
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2020, 05:17:28 AM »

Thanks J0hn, it’s down to the internal routing/redirection capabilities of some routers then?

Indeed, on OpenWRT the process involves creating a new interface with an IP in the same subnet as the modem but sharing the same physical port as the WAN/PPPoE connection then some fudging with iptables to get communication across subnets working.

It sounds like firebricks do much the same thing - you mentioned having physical ports connected to modems gaining 192.168.n.254 ips. How automated this is I have no idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if you have a few lines in the config thats making this happen.

Either way, as john says this is not something most consumer hardware has a way of doing through the GUI.
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