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Author Topic: Isle of Skye  (Read 423 times)

tickmike

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Isle of Skye
« on: June 07, 2019, 10:12:28 PM »

Going to the Isle of Skye soon.  :)

Any suggestions for places to see, things to do and also nearby on the mainland, including any nice restaurants .

The plan is,
Taxi to a local Railway station.
Using all first class trains, go to Birmingham New Street station, Catch Virgin train down to Euston, Wait in the Virgin First class lounge for our Daughter coming up from Kent, Catch the New Caledonian Night Sleeper train with for the first time 'en-suite' facilities to Inverness.
Then collect our car hire, drive to Skye via the old Military road, Skye for one week.
Drive down to Glasgow Airport, Fly to Gatwick with BA business class, Train up to St,Pancras, say goodbye to our daughter, walk to Euston station , quick cup of tea and a free snack in the First class lounge again, train up to Birmingham and then train to our local station, taxi home, put the kettle on for a cup of coffee.   ;D
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Ronski

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2019, 10:48:12 PM »

You could always stop off and say hi to Mr & Mrs Weaver

https://goo.gl/maps/Q6jbFDSi2HsbgG9U8

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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2019, 12:05:37 AM »

Worth stopping for the “classic” photo at Eilean Donan Castle, per so many commercial calendar shots.  Before the Skye bridge was built, you’d have the castle to yourself.   Nowadays, you will have to form an orderly queue behind dozens of Japanese tourists  to take *that photo from the car park,  but still worthwhile imho and actually, Japanese are quite good at orderly queuing.  Personally the photo from the car park is the goal, the castle itself would be even more queuing, and not that great.

https://www.eileandonancastle.com/visit/

Since I know you have an interest in railways... if stopping in Glasgow or just time to kill, one bit of advice I often give these days is... take a ride on the subway.  Third oldest underground railway in the world, behind London and Budapest.   In my youth it was still wooden carriages, that visibly twisted from end to end as they rattled along.  The doors were manually operated concertina affairs, like old fashioned elevators.   It’ was modernised in 1970s but still fascinating, amazingly compact, and how the lines drop down away from platforms in each direction, having originally been cable driven.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Subway

* PS  afterthought, the car park photo can be good but just to clarify... the actual photo on the page I linked is not from the car park, probably a drone shot. :)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 12:16:38 AM by sevenlayermuddle »
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Weaver

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2019, 01:43:26 AM »

Car hire in Inverness is a good plan. I have done the old sleeper several times and the new one sounds fantastic. As a railway nut I’m surprised you can resist the train to Kyle of Lochalsh (autocorrect just now as ‘locals hell’) or Fort William-Mallaig. There is car hire locally, but ask my wife Janet about it.

For insider tips you need to talk to my wife Janet who is the world’s leading expert on Skye tourism janet@skyeshepherdhuts.co.uk - because I don’t get out any more of course.

Janet knows all the good eateries too. I would absolutely love to say hello to any kitizens.

Please feel free to ask any questions (I’ll just ask Janet then). Many of the most interesting things are not know or not publicised, unlike Orkney where they have got their act together. The Norse Cathedral for example. Spar Cave might be google-able.

Heasta is a beautiful place to stay. My neighbour Sally has a superb B&B and my wife has her posh Shepherd Huts, lined with sheep wool so they are extremely cosy. Janet knows all the rubbish places to eat as well the superb ones because she or her guests report back.

Eilean Donnáin is always misspelled always as ‘donan’ for some reason and mispronounced with a long ‘o’; correct pron is ‘ill-ann’ (not like Eileen), first syllable stress [always, in every stressable word], then donn as in ‘bonny’ or more like ‘bunny’ and the final n sounds like ny in canyon - so ‘illann donnañ’. I visited there when I was a student at smo.uhi.ac.uk and it is beautiful inside. It’s entirely modern, having been (relatively) recently been rebuilt from a pile of rubble after it was blown up iirc.

If I were driving from Inverness I would drive via the north road - over the Black Isle and across then down through Srath Carrann - as there’s a lot less traffic. If you go that way, watch out for unmarked police cars. That’s where I got done the last time when I was coming home from the airport. Janet told me that recently three guys got done for doing over 140 mph on the straight there. Do not drive in the dark, too dangerous with deer all over the road.

EE or perhaps Three good 4G+3G, O2 no reception at all in some places but may have improved now.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2019, 09:24:02 AM »

Agree with Weaver, re Northern route from Imverness to Kyle, I gave exactly the same advice to friends a few weeks ago.   I’ve never driven it, but having researched it a little, I found myself  wanting to do so!   

Don’t be put off by single track roads up North.   They are very easy and fun to drive, with copious and well marked passing places.   Just be aware that the highway code requires us to use the passing places to let others overtake and the locals, often quite assertively, expect us to have read that bit.
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Weaver

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2019, 01:58:19 PM »

> found myself wanting to do so

It is not the most interesting road, just very very fast. I can recommend far more entertaining local roads, which have far fewer policemen on them, than that one.
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tickmike

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2019, 10:00:07 PM »

I will look out for the castle and hopefully stop and take some photo's.
The accommodation (A self catering house ) was booked in January in Portree and the car hire is also booked around the corner from Inverness station with 'Europcar' then afterwards leaving the hire car at Glasgow Airport (with some of the other car hire you can not do that !).
We will be going the South route to Skye via the B852 along the shore of Loch Ness, this road is the old military road  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_military_roads_of_Scotland , as on TV a few weeks ago.
One possible trip would be on the Jacobite Steam Train, 84 mile trip.
On the way back it will be very tight connection to catch the plane so no time to stop in Glasgow.
I have been on the Glasgow 'Tube' a long time ago.
The drive down to Glasgow looks very scenic.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2019, 10:39:19 PM »

Sounds like a great trip.   I’m envious.

I covered bits of it myself in 2016, but that was including the outer Islands via Ullapool, then back through Skye.  Portree is still lovely, but look out for groups of people in full highland dress, and then listen too... almost invariably, they have American accents, boasting among themselves  how “scottish” they are. Stress though, still a lovely, peaceful, place.

You are right, the drive down to Glasgow is a treat.   I’d forgotten just how much of a treat until that 2016 trip, but it is indeed a good drive, scenic for passengers, and fun for the driver too (by which I don’t mean speeding, which no longer entertains me).  Shame you won’t be stopping in Glasgow but, as it’s the city in which I was born and raised, I’m biassed!  :D

Enjoy!
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tickmike

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2019, 11:01:28 AM »

I was based in Glasgow when we where testing the APT (Advanced Passenger Train) and also visited with our family a few years ago when we stopped in Anstruther for a week.
I only speed where it is safe to do so, I will be sharing the driving with my wife.  :)
Just ordered some nice weather for that week  ;D

What interesting wildlife would we expect to see ?, being our daughter is a Zoo keeper and volunteer for the Kent Wildlife Trust..
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Weaver

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2019, 03:15:51 PM »

Golden eagles, deer, seals, otters, buzzards, whales and orcas. And donkeys. Ask Janet about wildlife and especially the good boat trips.

Much admiration for your daughter - Zoo keeper, wow!  ;D
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 03:35:15 PM by Weaver »
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tickmike

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2019, 08:37:42 PM »

Golden eagles, deer, seals, otters, buzzards, whales and orcas. And donkeys. Ask Janet about wildlife and especially the good boat trips.

Much admiration for your daughter - Zoo keeper, wow!  ;D
Camera's and binoculars at the ready sounds great.
She is a 'Primate Keeper' working Not a thousand miles away from Eric - Roseway   ;)
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2019, 09:34:30 AM »

Mike, I came across an interesting 2018 video on a Telegraph page, debating rumours that “Skye is full”.   Seems to suggest that many people are drawn to Skye by specific movie locations, or social media bucket lists, and these spots are indeed very busy.   Still plenty other parts to enjoy though.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/united-kingdom/scotland/articles/tourism-skye-crowded/

That pretty much co-incides with my own assessment, in 2016.  Previous visits had been three trips in 1980s, before the bridge (and before social media!), and first impression was that it had become horribly busy.   But once I acclimatised, I too found some very nice spots, though didn’t write them down.

Admittedly I still liked Skye better in 1980s, when we could hop over on the ferry, with no accommodation booked, even in July/August.   Roads were virtually deserted, and pretty much every B&B and hotel had a “vacancies” sign up.   But same can be said of other places, eg Cornwall is even more badly affected (Overrun by Poldark fans, I believe), I suppose we must move with the times. :)
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Weaver

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2019, 10:21:03 PM »

I would absolutely love to meet your daughter. I was always obsessed with primates when I was in my teens, learning the names of species from my book. Begged my parents to take me to Twycross where there was a superb array including some great apes which I could not see very well, unfortunately.

That Skye is Full article affected the economy very badly. Many parts of the island are crazy because people have gone like sheep to the same locations are Sunday papers articles, movies, postings on the interweb. The island is absolutely massive though. Compare it to Yorkshire, overlay on top of the other, I wonder how it does compare. Has one stunning beach - the Coral Beaches and the very fine beaches at Aiseag (anglicised as Ashaig) near Broadford and Gleann Bhreatail (anglicised as Brittle) on the west coast. The brochs are worth digging out - Sruthán boasts a good one as for others I will have to put my thinking cap on. Ask my Janet. No broch in Skye is as good as those on the mainland in Gleann Eilg - and take the small old ferry across (not to be confused with the big southern ferry to Malaig). The Malaig ferry is terrible these days - they have put on a small inadequate boat instead of the usual huge one and caused so much anger I think politicians are even getting involved in arse-kicking I think Janet said, luckily CalMac is state-owned. Avoid the CalMac ferry whatever you do.

The locals know so much about fantastic things to see that the foreigners never get to hear about. The Gàidhlig-speaking older folks keep it very very secret. Some of my neighbours have never spoken a word of Gàidhlig to me yet Janet swears that one at least has good Gàidhlig. I can think of five in the village who are always very happy to speak to me, my next door neighbour, most importantly. Unfortunately I never see anyone any more. The Gàidhlig speakers keep it pretty much a secret and will change to English if anyone they don’t know is present. But the language can be heard in the right places - on the radio all day and on TV, mostly Lewis Gàidhlig though - in the hospitals at Broadford and Portree. An elderly lady in the waiting room at Portree Hospital was amazed to hear a foreigner seeking to her in her language and seemed genuinely delighted with this close encounter. When I worked as a consultant one of my customers was a postman who with his wife was always very happy to let me chat away with them for ages in Gàidhlig despite my poor pronunciation. Another who was extremely proud of his Lewis Gàidhlig was a consultant in the finance industries who would encourage me but forbade me to try and talk about computers and made a rule that anything techy meant I had to switch back to English. But stalk the isles very carefully in Broadford Coop and Gàidhlig can be heard even there, centre of local social intercourse.

If there is a truly traditional Gàidhlig song event on at àros or at SMO then that would be a treat. Gàidhlig song is one of the exotic beguiling cultural forms of Europe and the glory of British truly traditional culture. The pure stuff is not to be found everywhere and ersatz nonsense is extremely common but luckily we have the best of the best "waulking songs" by the Harris Tweed Association - my copy with booklet is so old that it is a cassette. Anything by Cathy-Ann Nic A’ Phì (anglicised McPhee), or Christine Primrose, Mary Smith / Màiri Nic a’ Ghobhainn from Ness (Nis) in Lewis, or the beautiful voice of Mairead Stiubhart (Margaret Stewart) eg ‘Fhuair Mi Pòg’ or Margaret Callan eg ‘Faileasan Uibhist’ (stunning pronunciation and utterly beautiful N Uibhist), Anna Mhàrtainn (angl. Anne Martin) from Skye hooray someone from Skye. Older but not lesser all-time greats Seonag NicCoinnich. My guilty pleasure is Sìoda by Iseabail Nic Asgaill (angl Isabel MacAskill). There are couple of truly greats who escape me just now. There is also a cd of many Skye locals which is just superb and I can’t recall it. What no men? Seumas Caimbeul from the mainland just across the Skye Bridge at Cinn t-Sàile (angl. Kintail). If I were on a desert island and had to pick one I would break the rules and have two Mairead Callan’s ‘Faileasan Uibhist’ and the Harris Tweed Association one but haven’t found a source for that just now.

My cousins for some reason had a lust at one time for Gaelic children’s names and so named one of their boys Camshron, should have looked it up first as it means bent mouth (cam + syntactically lenited ‘sròn’ nf. ‘nose’ which although long would be shorted here as it is no longer the first syllable in this prefixed compound). Just like caim-beul =(bent-mouth).
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2019, 10:37:44 PM »

@Weaver, the ferry of which I have fond memories was Kyleakin to Kyle of Lochalsh.   It simply does not exist any more, having been replaced by the bridge, so no need to advise against its use.

That said, I actually look forwards to the remaining Calmac routes.  Mostly  nice vessels and service seems good, and also friendly, to me.   But I’m prepared to accept they may have a darker side that only becomes apparent to the Islanders who depend upon them.    :)
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Weaver

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Re: Isle of Skye
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2019, 02:40:46 AM »

Understood, I thought that was what you meant. The Gleann Eilg tiny ferry is still going strong. Janet knows the current tiny ferry skipper’s mum as she lived in this house before we did and might have been born in this bedroom where I write this now, if memory serves.

I mentioned the Gleann Eilg ferry because of the Gleann Eilg brochs which are very impressive and the tiny ferry is the way to go over to that remote part of the mainland. If you were to drive all the way to the far end of that road, into Loch Shubhairne (anglicised as Hourn pron ‘hoo’ like shoo. "sh" is pronounced [h] in Gàidhlig. [normal people can had a nap for the next half hour]

Here it’s an initial written sh because it’s a proper noun that is in the genitive case, but that doesn’t really explain anything, it’s just an observation and in twenty three years I have been unable to get any real idea of why this is. It meand ‘the loch of <x>. The n is an ñ - IPA [nʲ] because of the i and e bracketing it; u is pronounced -o-; the bh is, in this environment, either nothing at all, or faintly a /w/, and the ai is like the [ə] or so-called schwa the vowel of the ‘-er’ in ‘butter’; so the thing sounds like ‘doer’ ‘shoer’; the n bracketed by i and e is like in ‘seein ya’’, the r is effectively just a y or nonexistent, prob best just not to pronounce it at all as the i-e bracketing changes the r to be a southern english r (as opposed to a hard grilled distinct strong r) but in this case because of the i-e final -e combination pronounce if you can’t pronounce the r as a y IPA [j] then just don’t pronounce if. The i is only written there to indicate the quality of the r and the n and because there is an e following. Wherever you have a medial consonant the vowels on either side of it have to have a certain relationship in writing. Set A is written {i,e}, called ‘caol’. Set B is written {a,o,u} called  ‘leathan’. Say the pattern is VC(C*)V or in more detail V₁C(C*)V₂  then V₁ and V₂ would have to both be from the same set, ie both from set A or both from set B. also the consonant would have to belong to one of two sets of different-sounding variant consonants associated with A or B. Worse still, for each written consonantal there are four subsets each with a single member so giving us four actual sounds, one pair of subsets is the subset A = { A, AL} }and one pair of subsets is the subset B -  { B, BL} }. The individual consonants are notated here A, AL, B, BL and the -L members are expressed in writing with a postfixed silent h after the core written consonant. We have an example here of CBL in sh- with h written after it and an a|o|u after it. We can of course write four regexes for these. The core consonant is not one sound though but has four phonemic (which means phonetic differences are vital for meaning/understanding) consonant sound values which all sound completely different and the difference are vital, mucking them up sometimes changes the meaning or more likely makes the result gibberish. In English dialects the pronunciation of the written letter l in sleep, slop, silly, sillier, milk, alpha, allo, Alistair might in different in some places in some dialects but it doesn’t really matter exactly how you pronounce it, it all means the same thing. It is said not to be ‘phonemic’ in English. In other languages Gàidhlig included the different kinds of sound represented by Latin letters with different encoded with shifts and prefix-suffix (circumfix??) options are phonemic that is vital for meaning. So correct pronunciation can be a challenge, one of the hard things about an otherwise very simple easy language, because there are approximately four times as many sounds in Gàidhlig as in English or Welsh or French, certainly four consonants for many English stops p t k b d g r l m n s f anyway (very approximately, leaving out some important details), there is a coding system to fit all these sounds into the Latin alphabet that uses escape codes and shift sets. Like English hoping hopping, mac and mace with doubled vs single consonants and i and e in English. The coding is a postponed h or no h, plus brackets ing by vowels A: (i|e) CAL or (i|e), or (i|e) CBL (i|e), or (a|o|u) CB(a|o|u) or (a|o|u) CBL (a|o|u). The CBL subset of consonants, written as <C>h - in fact [ie]Ch[ie] or [aou]Ch[aou], are called the ‘lenited’ set and the change to that set from the other set, ie no -h to with a postfixed -h is called ‘lenition’; secondly in the other dimension, changing from the [aou]-bracketed consonants (‘leathan’ in Gàidhlig) to the [ie]-bracketed subset (‘caol’) is called ‘slenderisation’ or less obscurely but extremely inaccurately  ‘palatalisation’ so I recommend the former unless you understand enough about phonetics and want to make a phonetic point not a grammatical one. The words call, chall, ciall, chiall, (or ceann, cheann) are all real words and the written c has four different sounds [kʰ], [\x], [xʲ] > [ç]/[xʲ] - the first pair, depending on context, could mean ‘her loss’/‘a loss’, or ‘his loss’/‘to (a) loss’/‘its loss’; the second pair similar set based on ‘ciall’ which has many meanings and the last pair ‘ceann’ means’ ‘head’ and the same derived set again.

The vowels in the ie and aou bracket sets may or may not be pronounced, they may be silent and only be there because of the requirement for completing the escape sequence bracketing to indicate which kind of the four possible consonants the consonant is, or alternatively it may be heard a little as a glide or it may alter the vowels in either sound forming, a diphthong or it may be the main vowel. As an extreme the written letter o in the words fios [fɪs] ‘knowledge’/‘know’, and pìob [pʰʲiːp] and other such combinations is completely silent and it is only there to show unambiguously that the consonant s comes from set B and it is pronounced [s] not [ʃ], like the difference between coll. American Eng. ‘dis’ and ‘dish’ or ‘miss’ and ‘fish’. Taking the silent letter o out as in ‘ris’ [r’ɪʃ] (a preposition or a combined prepositions and pronoun melded form).

By the way, the four possibilities can be true for non medial consonants too, ie initial or final consonants.

Coming back to our word, after a digression within a digression *n, most importantly the last e is actually pronounced, as [(j)ə] or so-called schwa,the vowel of the ‘-er’ in ‘butter’ in southern England English where Rs are not pronounced.

So we finally, putting it all together, have the [huə(r’)nʲə], [‘huɚnʲə] I’m "suein’ ya!" But with an /h/ instead as I couldn’t find an English word starting with an h. One other point; it’s not one syllable -  it’s 2.5 or even 3 syllables I suspect. Some people nowadays, when faced with this kind of word-form with a final e o  it, are keen to even strengthen the last syllable making it s full no-doubt about it syllable by adding a final consonant after the -e, this is by analogy with other words that have this form legitimately. Anyway as for the correct pronunciation and exact syllable count, I need to ask my neighbour for a definitive opinion.

How’s that for getting carried away. Mea culpa. When you see and hear Gàidhlig spoken in the coop (stalking, patience, luck) or more likely on the radio (100% success) or www or down the road at smo.uhi.ac.uk, where Gàidhlig is compulsory and you (well not ‘you’, rather I) can get the cane for speaking English then you see that this jumble of written letters produces so very many sounds and without understanding the four way escaping ie-C-ie vs aou-C-aou vs ie-Ch-ie vs aou-Ch-aou and I didn’t even mention the option of double consonants vs single consonants ll rr nn (mm is no longer written for some reason, it’s just m now, and other double consonants are not found or are no longer found) the expected rh lh nh are not written but can sometimes be heard as they are grammatically significant.
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