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Author Topic: Speed issues with AAISP  (Read 11395 times)

sotonsam

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2018, 09:27:15 PM »

Had to quickly re-jig some bits my side, so had to resync'd my kit after a month. Interestinly my sync increased, I'm now pretty much max at 79 - but throughput on downloads hits exactly the same barrier at 68mb/sometimes 68.2mb. Doesn't matter what speed test I use, or if I download multiple files at once -  I never never get over that magic 68!

I've contacted AAISP again as per Andrew's post above, glad they're looking into it. Somethings up, as with that sync I'd expect around 74/75mb throughput.
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Weaver

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2018, 11:33:19 AM »

Welcome to Andrew for AA very good to have you on the forum.
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andrew-AAISP

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2018, 11:56:42 AM »

It's interesting that other TT wholesalers may be seeing the same thing. We have an advantage in that we have customers on both TT and BT backhaul, and some customers with one of each who can test side-by-side. I have some iperf speed results from some of our customers, these are mostly TT circuits so far, I need some more BT ones for comparison. Whilst doing this, I have asked TT if they are away of anything, I'm awaiting a reply from our contacts there.
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Weaver

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2018, 12:15:33 PM »

I really am no use since I have BT-only lines, have triple IP bonding to allow for and have incredibly slow modems. Otherwise I would volunteer.
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Weaver

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2018, 02:20:00 PM »

From the AA speedtester, I get 8.29 MBps with IPv4 and 8.11 MBps with IPv6 but the numbers are up and down all over the place, so I have quoted the maxima from a number of runs. The speed tester unfortunately doesn't say what that quote figure means though: if it is quoting TCP payload throughput then it needs to say so, plus whether it is using IPv6 or IPv4 currently and whether or not TCP timestamps are on. I am assuming that is an IPv6 or IPV4 TCP payload result as indicated by the type of ‘my address’ shown and that it is ‘with timestamps’ because the latter is what my iPad seems to prefer. I would have to get a traffic capture to find out. I found you don't care about such details as timestamps then your results will be approx 1% inaccurate, you will be seeing numbers that are low.

What we all really need is IP PDU throughput and TCP ought not to be involved, as we should not be concerned with slow start or dropped packets and retransmissions or weirdness in the face of PDU recording in my case.

Using the file download I see an IPv6 TCP payload throughput (am assuming with timestamps) that is 7.27 Mbps, which was derived by taking the 200 MB download time (230s), subtracting the 100 MB download time (120s) which gives us a 100 MB time without the slow start and the quoted figure is from that, 8 * 100 MB / (230-120) s = 7.27 Mbps. The speed tester is clearly under load sometimes so that it is essential to take the best result. Do not do an average, it is statistically invalid anyway.

For me, all clueless ‘rates’ are set to 100% currently, so there should be no problem about the definition of terms. My current _sum of AA ‘tx rate’ figures_ is 7.93 Mbps, so the speedtester results are impossible, being 2.27% and 12.48% exaggerated.

The sum of sync rates is 9.02 Mbps. From that, my calculated protocol maximum IP PDU rate is 7977593 bps based of theoretical calculation down from sum of sync rates using the known protocol overheads from PPP inclusive down to the ATM AAL5 CPCS and ATM cell overhead. AA is clearly using a slightly lower rate figure than that, which is a good idea since their routers remain in control, not BTs and it saves them money on a possible small amount of traffic dropped by BT anyway. The right figure for AA to use is related to whatever number BT uses, not my theoretical overhead fraction calculation. The value of the ratio that BT uses just has to be discovered somehow but calculation will not deliver it.

My file download payload rate is 96.3% of the sum of AA ‘tx rates’ when the latter figure is down-converted from an IP rate to an IPv6 TCP + timestamps payload rate (by multiplying by 95.2%, from the ratio of the payload sizes assuming 1500 byte IP PDUs and the IPv6 + TCP header bloat including typical TCP options when timestamps are enabled). So that means that the whole system of IP bonding even with TCP errors, retx and dropped packets is pretty good then at 96.3% of the maximum possible with the AA rates set as they are.

If you want to do the file download test, you need to get your current AA TX rate from clueless.aa.net.uk and multiply it by 0.952 for IPv6 or 0.965333 for IPv4 to obtain a TCP payload transfer rate and only the latter should be compared with the download time. You should do several downloads and keep the best time. For a more accurate result, try the subtraction method that I used, to get rid of slow start.
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Weaver

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2018, 06:04:43 PM »

Since this thread is in the FTTC issues section, I was off-topic supplying my observations regarding the speedtester, file download times and my own figures since I am not an FTTC user. We did get sidetracked into talking about the speedtester web app further back. Also my apologies, and also that last post seemed to grow into a monster! ???
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andrew-AAISP

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2018, 08:06:55 PM »

I really am no use since I have BT-only lines, have triple IP bonding to allow for and have incredibly slow modems. Otherwise I would volunteer.

I'd quite like some other A&A customers on BT VDSL to get in touch with me, as I'm wanting to test their speeds and compare... pop an email in to support@aa.net.uk if you can help.
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andrew-AAISP

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2018, 11:32:24 PM »

Update: I've not yet seen a TT iperf3 result that is over 69M, even on lines with 79.9M sync. I do have iperf3 results on BT circuits that are over 70M though. So far I only a small sample of 20 circuits, 10 of each TT/BT. Tricky, as the difference in results in the TT and BT samples I have are narrow, but do show TT under performing in maybe 60% of cases compared to BT, it's more noticeable on lines with full or near 80M sync; it's as if TT have a 70M cap on the 80M circuits.

We do have a dialogue with TT on this, and they are not aware of a problem as of today, I've given them some example circuits and expect they will investigate further.

I'm aware that another TT wholesaler has seen similar problems (since mid May), they have have reported it to TT too, but hasn't had any progress.

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sotonsam

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2018, 11:38:48 PM »

Cheers for your updates Andrew. Glad you've been able to see a trend and have been able to forward this onto TT.

Let's hope they're able to do something about it!
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andrew-AAISP

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2018, 11:40:06 PM »

Cheers for your updates Andrew. Glad you've been able to see a trend and have been able to forward this onto TT.

Let's hope they're able to do something about it!

It's a slight trend I'd say at this point.
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Weaver

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2018, 11:56:01 PM »

Fyi, FTTC G.INP 80 Mbps sync rate corresponds to 73.64 Mbps IPv6+TCP+timestamps TCP payload rate, 92.049% of sync rate. This is the time taken to download a file. This is assuming that G.INP is turned on and at the low rate. With G.INP at the high retx rate then the speed will be far worse. With no G.INP then the speed is very slightly better. With IPv4 + TCP + timestamps the TCP payload rate is 74.67 Mbps, 93.338% of sync rate.

Sync rate is not the same thing as the AA ‘tx rate’ quoted in clueless, because the latter is lower, in order to account for DSL overheads due to bloat, from additional headers, ie extra data sent.
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PhilipD

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #71 on: July 04, 2018, 07:52:19 AM »

Hi

it's as if TT have a 70M cap on the 80M circuits.

That's exactly my thoughts on my Uno line on TT backhaul, it's what it behaves like, a cap on the maximum speed.  Maybe this is by design, and they have a profile that sits lower than the maximum sync rate at 80/20.  Or is it the case with every sync rate in that the maximum throughput is artificially lower than the sync speed is capable of and it's only obvious for those that are on 80/20 and are aware their maximum used to be ~74Mbps?

It maybe seems petty to complain about a loss of 4/5Meg and still getting >68Mbps, but it is a loss, and if it is some high-up decision for capacity reasons to knock back faster connections, then that is throttling, which in my case is not what my ISP is selling me so I lose out and the ISP loses out if they lose a customer.  Also where does it stop, next month do they knock a bit more off to save buying extra capacity, then a bit more a few months later. 

Will be interesting to hear what TT come back with.

Regards

Phil



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orange4

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2018, 10:14:19 AM »

I have the exact same issue (capped no matter time of day) and according to my logs it started approx mid May.  I sent AAISP CS a very detailed email full of proof and even went to the length of eliminating the supplied FTTC modem. 

I was dismissed that due to it not showing the usual signs of contention that there's "no problem". 

A week later they did reply saying other customer TTB lines are already impacted, but by that point they'd weared my patience thin with all the outages during the daytime throughout last couple of months, and had already ordered VM Cable.

Early on in the contract I had issues with the line itself (80mbps -> 60mbps w/interleaving etc), and again I had to nag at them multiple times before anyone decided to action a BT Openreach engineer (who eventually discovered a wiring issue my side).  Line was "in spec" even though it had actually fell beyond handback threshold at that point, FFS!

IMHO they have not lived upto their "reputation".   
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Weaver

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #73 on: July 04, 2018, 10:24:47 AM »

Welcome to the forum Orange4!

It is not good getting simply brushed off and told there is ‘no problem’, very frustrating.

Did you say that you have since switched to Virgin?
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orange4

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Re: Speed issues with AAISP
« Reply #74 on: July 04, 2018, 10:27:10 AM »

VM will be arriving in next few weeks - I delayed it due to going away for a week.  Will axe AAISP as soon as that's installed and "stable".
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