Topic: mtu help,weird size (Read 30063 times)

d2d4j · « **Reply #75 on:** January 02, 2017, 04:10:49 PM »

Hi chrysalis

Many thanks, @roberto has posted his connection is FTTC 80/20 earlier

Many thanks

John

ejs · « **Reply #76 on:** January 02, 2017, 04:28:25 PM »

@d2d4j

What is your explanation for how you are able to send a 1500-byte total sized packet, when your MTU is 1492? Have you checked with wireshark or similar to see if it's actually being fragmented?

burakkucat · « **Reply #77 on:** January 02, 2017, 04:52:34 PM »

Quote from: Ignitionnet on January 02, 2017, 12:45:45 AM

Apologies if you already knew this . . .

Accepted.

Quote

. . . gave the impression the DSLAM was just a really big box of modems, when it's a fully fledged router.

As I'm sure you realise, there is a time to keep a description at the most simplest level and a time to take it to the most precise level.

roberto2212 · « **Reply #78 on:** January 02, 2017, 06:42:09 PM »

ok so I made one more test:
I changed billion 8800nl for hg612 update with old firmware bcm96368MVWG_fs_kernel_HG612V100R001C01B028SP10unlocked002.Tested speed : 61/18 ping 24.Speed droped due old firmware I guess(old g.inp).Hg612 set to pppoe bridge mode + wrt1900acs mtu 1492.Checked again mtu on speedguide with result 1460.Nothing change.So I guess that firmware for both billion and hg612 is allright.Question is if is not important speedguide mtu, then if I set manually on router mtu 1460 and on ps4 same 1460 why I still got delay 1 second if i play online?

ejs · « **Reply #79 on:** January 02, 2017, 06:48:16 PM »

Pick any number you like for the MTU. Try 1430. Try 1200. Hopefully, if changing the MTU makes no difference to gaming performance, then we can conclude that the problem is not due to the MTU size.

roberto2212 · « **Reply #80 on:** January 02, 2017, 07:06:46 PM »

If mtu no problem then what cause this delay?If sky with 1500 mtu is ok.And I guess that my router linksys wrt1900acs should be better like sky hub.

roberto2212 · « **Reply #81 on:** January 02, 2017, 07:12:13 PM »

internal wiring?..as I know fifa 17 or nhl 17 using p2p online gaming

NewtronStar · « **Reply #82 on:** January 02, 2017, 08:03:26 PM »

Me being inquisitive ran that Speedguide.net to see my MTU it shows my MTU = 1488 modem set at 1492 I think and PC MTU side set at 1500, don't know if it will help but seeing other members samples my give some insight into this weird issue.

d2d4j · « **Reply #83 on:** January 02, 2017, 08:11:52 PM »

Hi Ejs

Please see wireshark snapshots

However, I under4stand your point over MTU and our connection appears to be MTU 1500, but Draytek do not allow greater then 1492 for MTU over PPPoE, and speedguide confirms my MTU as been 1492. I do know others have commented on the draytek MTU been smaller then the largest packet transmitted/accepted, and I have no explaination for this, other then to think there maybe a bug in the firmware, which allows it/gives a false MTU figure, or perhaps draytek calculations add the 28 after the MTU is set, which does not make sense, but as you can plainly see from my pic, draytek state max allowed 1492 MTU, and I tried to input a higher figure, but is refused.

Apologies for long post, please delete as required.

@roberto, I believe Ejs is correct, and MTu is not your issue (but as I posted, I do not mind trying to help on MTU). Do you have stats running on mydslweb, if not, you may want too, which would give a bigger picture of your connection beyond MTU

Many thanks

John

ping from pc to router 1472 on 19.168.3.10 to 192.168.3.1

Frame 20: 1514 bytes on wire (12112 bits), 1514 bytes captured (12112 bits) on interface 0
Interface id: 0 (\Device\NPF_{60BB41C9-015E-4707-A9C6-AEB38E9E5C1A})
Encapsulation type: Ethernet (1)
Arrival Time: Jan 2, 2017 18:55:08.356042000 GMT Standard Time
[Time shift for this packet: 0.000000000 seconds]
Epoch Time: 1483383308.356042000 seconds
[Time delta from previous captured frame: 1.012945000 seconds]
[Time delta from previous displayed frame: 1.012945000 seconds]
[Time since reference or first frame: 20.484903000 seconds]
Frame Number: 20
Frame Length: 1514 bytes (12112 bits)
Capture Length: 1514 bytes (12112 bits)
[Frame is marked: False]
[Frame is ignored: False]
[Protocols in frame: eth:ethertype:ip:icmp:data]
[Coloring Rule Name: ICMP]
[Coloring Rule String: icmp || icmpv6]
Ethernet II, Src: HonHaiPr_77:2f:fd (d0:27:88:77:2f:fd), Dst: Draytek_b0:64:78 (00:1d:aa:b0:64:78)
Destination: Draytek_b0:64:78 (00:1d:aa:b0:64:78)
Source: HonHaiPr_77:2f:fd (d0:27:88:77:2f:fd)
Type: IPv4 (0x0800)
Internet Protocol Version 4, Src: 192.168.3.10 (192.168.3.10), Dst: 192.168.3.1 (192.168.3.1)
0100 .... = Version: 4
.... 0101 = Header Length: 20 bytes (5)
Differentiated Services Field: 0x00 (DSCP: CS0, ECN: Not-ECT)
Total Length: 1500
Identification: 0x11b4 (4532)
Flags: 0x02 (Don't Fragment)
Fragment offset: 0
Time to live: 64
Protocol: ICMP (1)
Header checksum: 0x0000 [validation disabled]
[Header checksum status: Unverified]
Source: 192.168.3.10 (192.168.3.10)
Destination: 192.168.3.1 (192.168.3.1)
[Source GeoIP: Unknown]
[Destination GeoIP: Unknown]
Internet Control Message Protocol
Type: 8 (Echo (ping) request)
Code: 0
Checksum: 0x4035 [correct]
[Checksum Status: Good]
Identifier (BE): 1 (0x0001)
Identifier (LE): 256 (0x0100)
Sequence number (BE): 18 (0x0012)
Sequence number (LE): 4608 (0x1200)
[Response frame: 21]
Data (1472 bytes)
Data: 6162636465666768696a6b6c6d6e6f707172737475767761...
[Length: 1472]

Frame 21: 1514 bytes on wire (12112 bits), 1514 bytes captured (12112 bits) on interface 0
Interface id: 0 (\Device\NPF_{60BB41C9-015E-4707-A9C6-AEB38E9E5C1A})
Encapsulation type: Ethernet (1)
Arrival Time: Jan 2, 2017 18:55:08.356737000 GMT Standard Time
[Time shift for this packet: 0.000000000 seconds]
Epoch Time: 1483383308.356737000 seconds
[Time delta from previous captured frame: 0.000695000 seconds]
[Time delta from previous displayed frame: 0.000695000 seconds]
[Time since reference or first frame: 20.485598000 seconds]
Frame Number: 21
Frame Length: 1514 bytes (12112 bits)
Capture Length: 1514 bytes (12112 bits)
[Frame is marked: False]
[Frame is ignored: False]
[Protocols in frame: eth:ethertype:ip:icmp:data]
[Coloring Rule Name: ICMP]
[Coloring Rule String: icmp || icmpv6]
Ethernet II, Src: Draytek_b0:64:78 (00:1d:aa:b0:64:78), Dst: HonHaiPr_77:2f:fd (d0:27:88:77:2f:fd)
Destination: HonHaiPr_77:2f:fd (d0:27:88:77:2f:fd)
Source: Draytek_b0:64:78 (00:1d:aa:b0:64:78)
Type: IPv4 (0x0800)
Internet Protocol Version 4, Src: 192.168.3.1 (192.168.3.1), Dst: 192.168.3.10 (192.168.3.10)
0100 .... = Version: 4
.... 0101 = Header Length: 20 bytes (5)
Differentiated Services Field: 0x00 (DSCP: CS0, ECN: Not-ECT)
Total Length: 1500
Identification: 0x7f3f (32575)
Flags: 0x00
Fragment offset: 0
Time to live: 255
Protocol: ICMP (1)
Header checksum: 0xaf85 [validation disabled]
[Header checksum status: Unverified]
Source: 192.168.3.1 (192.168.3.1)
Destination: 192.168.3.10 (192.168.3.10)
[Source GeoIP: Unknown]
[Destination GeoIP: Unknown]
Internet Control Message Protocol
Type: 0 (Echo (ping) reply)
Code: 0
Checksum: 0x4835 [correct]
[Checksum Status: Good]
Identifier (BE): 1 (0x0001)
Identifier (LE): 256 (0x0100)
Sequence number (BE): 18 (0x0012)
Sequence number (LE): 4608 (0x1200)
[Request frame: 20]
[Response time: 0.695 ms]
Data (1472 bytes)
Data: 6162636465666768696a6b6c6d6e6f707172737475767761...
[Length: 1472]

ping from pc to speedguide.net 1472 (192.168.3.10 to speedguide)

Frame 39: 1514 bytes on wire (12112 bits), 1514 bytes captured (12112 bits) on interface 0
Interface id: 0 (\Device\NPF_{60BB41C9-015E-4707-A9C6-AEB38E9E5C1A})
Encapsulation type: Ethernet (1)
Arrival Time: Jan 2, 2017 18:49:01.676134000 GMT Standard Time
[Time shift for this packet: 0.000000000 seconds]
Epoch Time: 1483382941.676134000 seconds
[Time delta from previous captured frame: 0.880501000 seconds]
[Time delta from previous displayed frame: 0.880501000 seconds]
[Time since reference or first frame: 34.221670000 seconds]
Frame Number: 39
Frame Length: 1514 bytes (12112 bits)
Capture Length: 1514 bytes (12112 bits)
[Frame is marked: False]
[Frame is ignored: False]
[Protocols in frame: eth:ethertype:ip:icmp:data]
[Coloring Rule Name: ICMP]
[Coloring Rule String: icmp || icmpv6]
Ethernet II, Src: HonHaiPr_77:2f:fd (d0:27:88:77:2f:fd), Dst: Draytek_b0:64:78 (00:1d:aa:b0:64:78)
Destination: Draytek_b0:64:78 (00:1d:aa:b0:64:78)
Source: HonHaiPr_77:2f:fd (d0:27:88:77:2f:fd)
Type: IPv4 (0x0800)
Internet Protocol Version 4, Src: 192.168.3.10 (192.168.3.10), Dst: speedguide.net (68.67.73.20)
0100 .... = Version: 4
.... 0101 = Header Length: 20 bytes (5)
Differentiated Services Field: 0x00 (DSCP: CS0, ECN: Not-ECT)
Total Length: 1500
Identification: 0x1167 (4455)
Flags: 0x02 (Don't Fragment)
Fragment offset: 0
Time to live: 64
Protocol: ICMP (1)
Header checksum: 0x0000 [validation disabled]
[Header checksum status: Unverified]
Source: 192.168.3.10 (192.168.3.10)
Destination: speedguide.net (68.67.73.20)
[Source GeoIP: Unknown]
[Destination GeoIP: Unknown]
Internet Control Message Protocol
Type: 8 (Echo (ping) request)
Code: 0
Checksum: 0x4039 [correct]
[Checksum Status: Good]
Identifier (BE): 1 (0x0001)
Identifier (LE): 256 (0x0100)
Sequence number (BE): 14 (0x000e)
Sequence number (LE): 3584 (0x0e00)
[Response frame: 40]
Data (1472 bytes)
Data: 6162636465666768696a6b6c6d6e6f707172737475767761...
[Length: 1472]

Frame 40: 1514 bytes on wire (12112 bits), 1514 bytes captured (12112 bits) on interface 0
Interface id: 0 (\Device\NPF_{60BB41C9-015E-4707-A9C6-AEB38E9E5C1A})
Encapsulation type: Ethernet (1)
Arrival Time: Jan 2, 2017 18:49:01.794135000 GMT Standard Time
[Time shift for this packet: 0.000000000 seconds]
Epoch Time: 1483382941.794135000 seconds
[Time delta from previous captured frame: 0.118001000 seconds]
[Time delta from previous displayed frame: 0.118001000 seconds]
[Time since reference or first frame: 34.339671000 seconds]
Frame Number: 40
Frame Length: 1514 bytes (12112 bits)
Capture Length: 1514 bytes (12112 bits)
[Frame is marked: False]
[Frame is ignored: False]
[Protocols in frame: eth:ethertype:ip:icmp:data]
[Coloring Rule Name: ICMP]
[Coloring Rule String: icmp || icmpv6]
Ethernet II, Src: Draytek_b0:64:78 (00:1d:aa:b0:64:78), Dst: HonHaiPr_77:2f:fd (d0:27:88:77:2f:fd)
Destination: HonHaiPr_77:2f:fd (d0:27:88:77:2f:fd)
Source: Draytek_b0:64:78 (00:1d:aa:b0:64:78)
Type: IPv4 (0x0800)
Internet Protocol Version 4, Src: speedguide.net (68.67.73.20), Dst: 192.168.3.10 (192.168.3.10)
0100 .... = Version: 4
.... 0101 = Header Length: 20 bytes (5)
Differentiated Services Field: 0x00 (DSCP: CS0, ECN: Not-ECT)
Total Length: 1500
Identification: 0x78dd (30941)
Flags: 0x00
Fragment offset: 0
Time to live: 47
Protocol: ICMP (1)
Header checksum: 0xbc3a [validation disabled]
[Header checksum status: Unverified]
Source: speedguide.net (68.67.73.20)
Destination: 192.168.3.10 (192.168.3.10)
[Source GeoIP: Unknown]
[Destination GeoIP: Unknown]
Internet Control Message Protocol
Type: 0 (Echo (ping) reply)
Code: 0
Checksum: 0x4839 [correct]
[Checksum Status: Good]
Identifier (BE): 1 (0x0001)
Identifier (LE): 256 (0x0100)
Sequence number (BE): 14 (0x000e)
Sequence number (LE): 3584 (0x0e00)
[Request frame: 39]
[Response time: 118.001 ms]
Data (1472 bytes)
Data: 6162636465666768696a6b6c6d6e6f707172737475767761...
[Length: 1472]

d2d4j · « **Reply #84 on:** January 02, 2017, 08:16:08 PM »

Hi Newtonstar

Many thanks, good idea.

Please could you do a ping test to show highest packet without fragmentation

If speedguide shows 1488, you could try

ping -f -l 1460 speedguide.net

ping -f -l 1461 speedguide.net

ping -f -l 1464 speedguide.net

note 1460 should pass and 1461, 1464 should fragment, based on 1488 - 28 = 1460

also be good to know your router make/model

Many thanks

John

licquorice · « **Reply #85 on:** January 02, 2017, 08:35:25 PM »

I get 1492 from speedguide.net with TP Link TD-W9980 set to 1492. Ping test ok at 1464, fragments at 1465.

ejs · « **Reply #86 on:** January 03, 2017, 06:24:44 PM »

I think speedguide.net calculates your MTU from your TCP MSS. Perhaps the Draytek does MSS clamping based on the MTU value in the settings, but MSS is only applicable to TCP, and the negotiated PPP MTU is actually 1500.

NewtronStar · « **Reply #87 on:** January 03, 2017, 07:01:35 PM »

Here we go modem is the HHG2500 ISP Vodafone

Pinging 68.67.73.20 with 1460 bytes of data:
Reply from 68.67.73.20: bytes=1460 time=117ms TTL=46
Reply from 68.67.73.20: bytes=1460 time=117ms TTL=46
Reply from 68.67.73.20: bytes=1460 time=117ms TTL=46
Reply from 68.67.73.20: bytes=1460 time=118ms TTL=46

Ping statistics for 68.67.73.20:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 117ms, Maximum = 118ms, Average = 117ms

Pinging 68.67.73.20 with 1461 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.1.1: Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.

Ping statistics for 68.67.73.20:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 1, Lost = 3 (75% loss),

Pinging 68.67.73.20 with 1464 bytes of data:
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.

Ping statistics for 68.67.73.20:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

d2d4j · « **Reply #88 on:** January 03, 2017, 08:08:43 PM »

Hi

Thanks newtonstar, your mtu has been correctly given or 1461 should have passed

@ejs, good thought, but speedguide detects the mtu from the computer is run on, which normally matches the mtu of the router or 1500, but if router mtu is lower, this then causes a lower figure I believe

I would have to test this theory though, by setting a pc to 1024 and running speedguide test. If I have time tommorow I'll do the test

Many thanks

John

burakkucat · « **Reply #89 on:** January 03, 2017, 08:11:01 PM »

Here is what I observe --

Code: [Select]

[Duo2 ~]$ ping -c 3 -n -p ff -s 1500 -M do 68.67.73.20
PATTERN: 0xff
PING 68.67.73.20 (68.67.73.20) 1500(1528) bytes of data.
From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)
From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)
From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)

--- 68.67.73.20 ping statistics ---
0 packets transmitted, 0 received, +3 errors

[Duo2 ~]$ ping -c 3 -n -p ff -s 1450 -M do 68.67.73.20
PATTERN: 0xff
PING 68.67.73.20 (68.67.73.20) 1450(1478) bytes of data.
1458 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=142 ms
1458 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=142 ms
1458 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=3 ttl=50 time=142 ms

--- 68.67.73.20 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2145ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 142.042/142.336/142.647/0.247 ms
[Duo2 ~]$ ping -c 3 -n -p ff -s 1475 -M do 68.67.73.20
PATTERN: 0xff
PING 68.67.73.20 (68.67.73.20) 1475(1503) bytes of data.
From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)
From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)
From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)

--- 68.67.73.20 ping statistics ---
0 packets transmitted, 0 received, +3 errors

[Duo2 ~]$ ping -c 3 -n -p ff -s 1464 -M do 68.67.73.20
PATTERN: 0xff
PING 68.67.73.20 (68.67.73.20) 1464(1492) bytes of data.
1472 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=142 ms
1472 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=141 ms
1472 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=3 ttl=50 time=141 ms

--- 68.67.73.20 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2144ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 141.004/141.525/142.072/0.533 ms
[Duo2 ~]$ ping -c 3 -n -p ff -s 1470 -M do 68.67.73.20
PATTERN: 0xff
PING 68.67.73.20 (68.67.73.20) 1470(1498) bytes of data.
1478 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=143 ms
1478 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=142 ms
1478 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=3 ttl=50 time=142 ms

--- 68.67.73.20 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2145ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 142.041/142.686/143.642/0.755 ms
[Duo2 ~]$ ping -c 3 -n -p ff -s 1474 -M do 68.67.73.20
PATTERN: 0xff
PING 68.67.73.20 (68.67.73.20) 1474(1502) bytes of data.
From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)
From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)
From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)

--- 68.67.73.20 ping statistics ---
0 packets transmitted, 0 received, +3 errors

[Duo2 ~]$ ping -c 3 -n -p ff -s 1471 -M do 68.67.73.20
PATTERN: 0xff
PING 68.67.73.20 (68.67.73.20) 1471(1499) bytes of data.
1479 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=170 ms
1479 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=143 ms
1479 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=3 ttl=50 time=140 ms

--- 68.67.73.20 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2143ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 140.720/151.557/170.506/13.448 ms
[Duo2 ~]$ ping -c 3 -n -p ff -s 1473 -M do 68.67.73.20
PATTERN: 0xff
PING 68.67.73.20 (68.67.73.20) 1473(1501) bytes of data.
From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)
From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)
From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1500)

--- 68.67.73.20 ping statistics ---
0 packets transmitted, 0 received, +3 errors

[Duo2 ~]$ ping -c 3 -n -p ff -s 1472 -M do 68.67.73.20
PATTERN: 0xff
PING 68.67.73.20 (68.67.73.20) 1472(1500) bytes of data.
1480 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=143 ms
1480 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=141 ms
1480 bytes from 68.67.73.20: icmp_seq=3 ttl=50 time=142 ms

--- 68.67.73.20 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2143ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 141.873/142.468/143.007/0.637 ms
[Duo2 ~]$

News:

Author Topic: mtu help,weird size (Read 30063 times)

d2d4j

Re: mtu help,weird size

ejs

Re: mtu help,weird size

burakkucat

Re: mtu help,weird size

roberto2212

Re: mtu help,weird size

ejs

Re: mtu help,weird size

roberto2212

Re: mtu help,weird size

roberto2212

Re: mtu help,weird size

NewtronStar

Re: mtu help,weird size

d2d4j

Re: mtu help,weird size

d2d4j

Re: mtu help,weird size

licquorice

Re: mtu help,weird size

ejs

Re: mtu help,weird size

NewtronStar

Re: mtu help,weird size

d2d4j

Re: mtu help,weird size

burakkucat

Re: mtu help,weird size