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Author Topic: New FTTC (Vodafone) with possible upstream issues  (Read 9888 times)

DaveT

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Re: New FTTC (Vodafone) with possible upstream issues
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2016, 07:01:29 PM »

OK, haven't had a chance to go to Argos yet, so tried with the DECT and there's a definite hiss on the line (like static).  Its not crackly or variable, just hisses.  I've unplugged the DECT now so the only thing plugged in to my master socket is the modem.  I don't have any extensions running from the socket.

Watching the SNR during the quiet line test, there was no discernible difference.
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NewtronStar

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Re: New FTTC (Vodafone) with possible upstream issues
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2016, 08:25:51 PM »

There is test you can do and if you have a SSFP (service-specific face plate) installed which is the filter for voice and broadband you can remove this by unscrewing the two screws on the lower face plate the SSFP will detach and then plug a micro filter directly into the NTE5 test socket

This test is to see if the SSFP has become faulty.
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DaveT

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Re: New FTTC (Vodafone) with possible upstream issues
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2016, 08:42:37 PM »

Ok, I can try that, but this will cause a disconnect, which may force a further downgrade of upload sync?
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NewtronStar

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Re: New FTTC (Vodafone) with possible upstream issues
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2016, 08:51:32 PM »

Ok, I can try that, but this will cause a disconnect, which may force a further downgrade of upload sync?

Unfortunately it will you can try this another day or do as I do turn off the modem and look at a clock do what you need to do at the NTE5 and make sure 30 minutes has passed before turning the modem back on.

This is seen by the DLM as a power off state and will be discounted as fault
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 08:55:13 PM by NewtronStar »
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DaveT

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Re: New FTTC (Vodafone) with possible upstream issues
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2016, 11:36:13 PM »

Unfortunately it will you can try this another day or do as I do turn off the modem and look at a clock do what you need to do at the NTE5 and make sure 30 minutes has passed before turning the modem back on.

This is seen by the DLM as a power off state and will be discounted as fault

Ok, just kicked it all back off.  Have got the modem plugged in to the test socket via a newly supplied microfilter.  Also swapped out the cable while I was at it.  Let's see if this helps at all  :fingers:
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NewtronStar

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Re: New FTTC (Vodafone) with possible upstream issues
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2016, 12:01:10 AM »

Still the US U1 is arsing about you have done most tests the ISP would ask for it 's time to call your ISP for an Openreach Engineer visit and I know you will have to do some persuading on the blower and which fault shall you call it in as Voice or Broadband.

Any OR engineer should have the ability to check both sides so go for a Broadband issue on the upstream.
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WWWombat

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Re: New FTTC (Vodafone) with possible upstream issues
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2016, 01:39:19 PM »

I finally got a chance to look at this line properly on MDWS, after my original "at a glance" look.

Expectations
Broadly, the line shows an attainable of 73/22. Most other signs back this up:
- An attenuation of around 15dB, it is a shorter line than my old 350m one (16dB) that could "just" get 80/22 attainable.
- An Hlog that looks fine for the attenuation
- A QLN that shows more noise than my old 350m line, explaining why attainable is a little lower than 80/20.

Those properties look good ... noting like @kitz that Hlog and QLN graphs are merely snapshots of the resync, rather than live.

Symptoms
The upstream speed looks to have been banded, with the banding speed reduced at intervals: 8.5Mbps, 7.2Mbps, 6Mbps, 5Mbps.

Upstream FEC and CRC rates have been high, but have gradually reduced as each level of banding has been introduced. In this case, banding is successfully reducing the symptoms.

The upstream SNRM seems to spike downwards nastily.

Deeper Details
When looking at the SNRM for individual bands, I originally noticed that U1 seemed to be worst, with the biggest drops from 15dB to zero. It turns out - from looking at the bitloading - that this is almost certainly caused by bitswapping removing and adding one or two bits in the U1 band, causing it to toggle between "wholly unused" and "having one or two bits used". The SNRM for U1 becomes a red-herring, shifting the question over to: why is U1 so devoid of bits, such that a couple of bitswaps can take everything away?

One aspect to remember is that "upstream power backoff" has a tendency to reduce usage of U1, putting more bits into U2.

In this case, I think the banding (ie an artifical speed cap) has reduced the need for bits so much that, combined with upstream power-backoff, the modem no longer needs to allocate bits in U1, leaving things mostly to U2.

Today (Aug 24th), things don't look so bad. But I notice that the "bitswap" graph is show no bitswaps upstream. Probably not a coincidence, but hard to say how much is cause vs effect.

Ignoring U1, then...

Spikes are also present in the SNRM for U2 - and these ones seem to match the spikes in the combined SNRM graph (little surprise, once you realise U1 doesn't contribute much).

The spikes suggest that something is wrong with the physical line, but they also suggest that once banding has had an effect and U1 has gone AWOL, the spikes are very intermittent, and of short duration.

If the spikes were of a longer duration, cause a resync and stuck around, then we might hope to see signs of the degradation in an Hlog or QLN graph. Being such short duration means we're unlikely to see anything that helps identify the cause from the statistics pages. We'll just keep seeing symptoms - but with banding in place, we'll only see a reduced set of symptoms.

As @ns says, the next step is for an engineer ... the choice will be down to the voice or broadband one. Unless, of course, today's improvement is the result of an unreported fix.
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DaveT

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Re: New FTTC (Vodafone) with possible upstream issues
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2016, 06:41:01 PM »

Thanks NewtronStar and WWWombat for the detailed and helpful explanation.

Something curious has happened.  Since yesterday evening at 22:40, the connection has been completely stable.  No spikes in upstream SNR, all 3 upstream bands steady.

Then today at 17:51 it's all kicked off again, spike in SNR, sudden FEC errors and U1 SNRM has plummeted again.
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kitz

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Re: New FTTC (Vodafone) with possible upstream issues
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2016, 11:33:59 PM »

Mine did that too.
As I mentioned I think it was weather related.   Curiously it was worse on a hot day.   Sometimes it would be ok in the morning but get worse as the day heated up.
I'm sure theres mention on my fault ticket saying something like.  The weather forecast for 'x'day is hot can you book the engineer for then.
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DaveT

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Re: New FTTC (Vodafone) with possible upstream issues
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2016, 08:21:34 AM »

Mine did that too.
As I mentioned I think it was weather related.   Curiously it was worse on a hot day.   Sometimes it would be ok in the morning but get worse as the day heated up.
I'm sure theres mention on my fault ticket saying something like.  The weather forecast for 'x'day is hot can you book the engineer for then.

Have been trying to watch for relationships with weather but can find no discernible pattern so far   :-\

Seems to settling into a routine of quiet over night and then later in the day SNRM starting to jump around.  Looks like a resync early this morning, which has forced my upstream down a tad again, but this time I don't have any interleaving, my ping to BBC has now gone from 27ms to 16ms.

I guess I'm going to have to phone Vodafone  :no:
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