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Author Topic: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line  (Read 6626 times)

aesmith

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Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« on: August 02, 2016, 04:26:29 PM »

Hi,

I'm worried about my Billion 7800DXL router, it's lost two Ethernet ports in the recent lightning issues, and there are more errors that before so I'm concerned about the modem side of it.  Bear in mind that the telephone attached to the line was killed stone dead.

So I'm thinking of a replacement, my preference would be an integrated modem/router/wireless device, with at least four Ethernet ports, supported by DSL Stats and preferably with SNMP.   Actually if it had proper SNMP support the DSL Stats would matter less, but for example the Billion supports the DSL MIB but returns all zero values for most of the parameters.

Spec sheets etc I can check myself, but what do people find works well on long ADSL lines?   I don't care about VDSL as that's never going to reach us, or not in it's current form anyway.

Thanks,  Tony S
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William Grimsley

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2016, 05:07:57 PM »

I'd recommend the Billion BiPAC 8800NL.
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parkdale

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 07:50:35 PM »

I have a Billion 7800n sitting here gathering dust if you need something to get by? F.O.C. or donation to Kitz's site fund.
Also I have a Netgear N300 and a Netgear N150 sitting boxed up if anyone want's them.

Robin
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Weaver

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2016, 11:49:09 PM »

> what do people find works well on long ADSL lines?

I have ultra-long lines - downstream attn. 66 dB. My DLink DSL-320B-Z1 modems work superbly well on ADSL / ADSL2 / 2+. That doesn't fit in with your single-box thing though. But I'd recommend these separate modems, as they're superbly aggressive performers and dead cheap (< ~20 ) to replace, and if you get a lightning strike then there's some small hope that just the modem will be taken out, not the router as well. Mine came from the AAISP shop, correctly preconfigured to be in modem-only mode. (i.e. not trying to be a router, in which case they would be utterly crap, full of security holes and bugs according to A & A.) Definitely worth getting them preconfigured, saves you a small chore.

Following a good tip from Burakkucat, mine are configured to be in ADSL2 mode, not "auto" allowing ADSL2+, which we hope narrows the window dropping the unused higher frequencies in the input, so reducing input noise. That's the theory anyway.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 06:27:37 PM by Weaver »
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burakkucat

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2016, 12:35:44 AM »

What always used to be suggested as a good option for long lines (and may still be true) is the old BT Business Hub, a.k.a. a 2Wire 2700HGV. Unfortunately it is not supported by DSLstats and is not SNMP capable.

As I hinted in a post to a different thread, there is a means of obtaining access to the "hidden" debug/recovery mode. It has been rumoured that the debug/recovery mode will allow the ISP "branding" to be removed and other modifications to be made. I have not yet tried it myself . . .

The technical specification for the BT Business Hub is attached, below.
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kitz

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2016, 07:47:02 PM »

Depends on how much you want to pay, wifi speeds and ethernet speeds.
At first I was going to say Billion, but on reflection I'm going to throw another suggestion into the mix and thats the Zyxel VMG1312 which is Openreach MCT and reasonably priced.   

Apparently Zen tested the VMG1312-B10D and was impressed with its performance and stability on long (vdsl) lines.

I also noticed a few days ago that AAISP are retailing the VMG1312-B10A to their customers.  They also trialled them and I wouldn't expect AAISP to pass rubbish on to their customers.   Earlier this eve I looked at some stats on a long (VDSL) line and was actually quite impressed to see it was holding the line what appeared to be quite nicely with out any DLM intervention being applied.

Both models will support DSLstats etc out of the box.  The web GUI is a little buggy, but has a lot of options. Zyxel allows full access to BCM telnet commands.
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aesmith

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2016, 12:46:31 PM »

Thanks for the comments.  I'm not sure I've seen comments on the Billion 8800 other than on relatively short VDSL lines, how confident are people that it would be a good performer on long ADSL?   I'll check out the VMG1312-B10A, I've not used Zyxel products before, but as said it's unlikely that A&A would be offering a poor product.
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licquorice

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2016, 01:26:29 PM »

As burakkucat has posted, the perceived wisdom was always that the 2Wire 2700HGV was very good for long lines.
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roswellgrey

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2016, 05:15:28 PM »

Another thought about the Billion - the original 8800NL has all but vanished from the shelves,  and has been superceded by the R2, which has a different chipset ....
So long line performance of the newbie might be hard to ratify ...
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Billion 8800NL

kitzuser87430

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2016, 08:21:04 PM »

Quote
might be hard to ratify ...

Roseway has come to a conclusion on the R2 device http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,18126.msg329431.html#msg329431

Quote
2Wire 2700HGV was very good for long lines.

WAS being the operative word, I used these and the 2701 on my long (4 Km) rural line. and whilst the line was in poor condition (small hr fault was my diagnosis) the 2wire's would hold on to sync to 0 dB snr, BUT the sync speed was always lower than a broadcom chipset device and they cannot  be tweaked to a higher or lower bras profile (20C exchange).

After my fault was fixed (that is a long story) I have switched to a broadcom chipset to make use of the extra 0.5 Mbps.

Ian
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aesmith

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2016, 06:08:58 PM »

Well I said I was worried about my existing router, the Billion 7800DXL.  Friday night, around a month after the lightning episode it dropped dead, not stone dead but for example you could see the SSIDs but not connect to them.  Saturday morning after a power cycle wireless was back working again but now all four Ethernets are dead.   I've temporarily swapped to my spare which is a Technicolor 582N, and comparing the two I can see the Billion was way better, not only does the 582N connect at a lower synch speed but the error rate is miles higher.   Based on that I've ordered another 7800DXL, since I could get one for just over 70.
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noddy

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2016, 06:36:52 AM »

I'd like to know how you get on with it sounds like your in a same situation as me , good luck  :fingers:
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aesmith

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2016, 07:30:20 PM »

Replaced the 582N with the new (to me) Billion 7800DXL.   One immediate change I noticed was the upstream noise margin changed from only 6dB to 17dB, in both cases with the upstream sync maxed out at 448.
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Weaver

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2016, 10:05:54 PM »

are you interested in un-capping the upstream?
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burakkucat

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Re: Recommend me an ADSL router for long line
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2016, 10:14:10 PM »

. . . with the upstream sync maxed out at 448.

Surely that is a consequence of the 20th century infrastructure at your serving exchange only being capable of G.992.1 (G.Dmt).  :-\
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