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Author Topic: DLM  (Read 6088 times)

licquorice

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Re: DLM
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2016, 02:13:09 PM »

Thanks very much for that, it confirms my understanding of SIN498 and G993.2, which I had a quick read through last night following gt94sss2's post. I guess the next question is how does DLM react in the case of missing or corrupted data, or am I pushing my luck with that one?  :) :)
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Dray

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Re: DLM
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2016, 02:17:52 PM »

Why would there be missing or corrupt data?
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licquorice

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Re: DLM
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2016, 02:22:21 PM »

Because it wasn't there or it got corrupted.
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Black Sheep

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Re: DLM
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2016, 02:27:32 PM »

I know I shouldn't, but snigger, snigger. It did make me smile on this wonderful Friday afternoon.  ;D
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Dray

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Re: DLM
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2016, 02:45:47 PM »

Well if it wasn't there I suppose it would be treated as if it didn't exist
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WWWombat

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Re: DLM
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2016, 03:04:42 PM »

Thanks very much for that, it confirms my understanding of SIN498 and G993.2, which I had a quick read through last night following gt94sss2's post. I guess the next question is how does DLM react in the case of missing or corrupted data, or am I pushing my luck with that one?  :) :)

Section 11.2.3.7 of the VDSL2 spec tells the modems what they should be doing with these counters - which is essentially to maintain them as required by G.997.1, which itself is the generic management spec for all DSL types.

If the modem is in SHOWTIME state, then the EOC channel should be running, and messages can be sent, both requests and responses. The DSLAM ought to be able to get a request through and a working CPE modem ought to respond.

If the CPE modem is broken in that it can maintain sync, keep SHOWTIME, but fails to respond to the EOC request, then I guess it breaks the rules of transmission down the EOC channel. Section 11.2.2 gives us the timeout information for the messages, so that the command would be retried. The "Management Counter Read" command is of normal priority, and has a timeout of 800ms. After retrying a number of times, the command is abandoned.

But there appears to be no other consequences of a failure to respond. There is nothing to trigger a resync, for example.

In normal circumstances, the retry would be enough to cope with transmission faults. And serious transmission faults would likely cause a resync because of problems on the user path. But there seems little protection against a flaw that only stops the EOC response getting through.
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licquorice

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Re: DLM
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2016, 03:18:39 PM »

Thanks, just wondering if DLM flags that it is missing information and raises an alarm for the circuit after x failures or if it just ignores it.
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burakkucat

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Re: DLM
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2016, 05:39:26 PM »

. . . wondering if DLM flags that it is missing information and raises an alarm for the circuit after x failures or if it just ignores it.

We would need to know the inner workings of the DLM process to be able to answer your latter query.  ;)

b*cat bows and waves a friendly paw towards WWWombat, for providing the explanation of the dialogue between the VTU-O and VTU-R entities.
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NewtronStar

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Re: DLM
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2016, 07:51:11 PM »


If I take this situation which happened to me twice one of the pairs was not punched down correctly on the BT80 first and SSFP second as you would guess no sync to modem with only one wire connected but still the DLM was able to see I was having issues yet the Modem was not able to send out any data and the result was banding for two weeks on each occasion.
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kitz

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Re: DLM
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2016, 12:51:24 PM »

Thanks, just wondering if DLM flags that it is missing information and raises an alarm for the circuit after x failures or if it just ignores it.

I guess that's what ILQ grey is for.

A system called Yukon collates the real-time data from the CPE, I believe ??

Yep. Yukon is the OSS integration specific for NGA (FTTC).
NH21 integrates the various OSS and monitors all the equipment ie DSLAMs/MSANs/BRAS/MPLS/SVLANs etc.
See image below. 
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licquorice

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Re: DLM
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2016, 01:03:26 PM »

I guess that's what ILQ grey is for.


Yep, missed that. Thanks kitz
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WWWombat

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Re: DLM
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2016, 06:25:34 PM »

We would need to know the inner workings of the DLM process to be able to answer your latter query.  ;)

The MIB has information that shows how many of the 15 minute intervals are valid, and there is an "elapsed time" field in each, but it only counts to 900 (ie 15 mins). There doesn't seem to be a way to tell which periods are invalid, and the text description doesn't seem to envisage anything going missing while sync is achieved.

To know whether DLM trusts this, or takes care to look for missing data, is as you say, impossible to know without intimate knowledge of the internals of the DLM implementation. If it were my design, I'd have at least considered such checks.

b*cat bows and waves a friendly paw towards WWWombat, for providing the explanation of the dialogue between the VTU-O and VTU-R entities.

I try to help out every now and again. I don't always turn out to be as helpful as I think. ;)
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gt94sss2

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Re: DLM
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2016, 06:42:26 PM »

But there appears to be no other consequences of a failure to respond. There is nothing to trigger a resync, for example.

Various equipment manufacturers have suggested that Openreach may take action if CPEs don't respond as they expect them too:

From Draytek's website:

Quote
Officially, BT have warned ISPs and users that they will be specifically polling CPE (modems/routers) to check for approved devices and may take sanctions if unapproved equipment is used:

"It is prohibited to connect a device to a VDSL2 phone socket which has not passed BT's MCT (Modem Conformance Testing for SIN498).  BT will be using OAM loopback to perform diagnostics on FTTC service and identify the CPE connected. Detection of unauthorised CPE may result in the following:
• Request for removal of unauthorised CPE
• Limitation or disconnection of Service
• Lack of support when troubleshooting faults
• Abortive visit charges or SFI Customer Misoperation charges when engineers find unauthorised equipment on site.

In addition, the usage of equipment which does not comply with the SIN 498 ANFP or interferes with other subscriber's service may result in the service being terminated."
                 
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Chrysalis

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Re: DLM
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2016, 06:45:51 PM »

time to unplug those asus modems?
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