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Author Topic: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion  (Read 11209 times)

broadstairs

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2016, 09:26:07 PM »

Yes but my point is that BT have only been able to do this investment because they were gifted the original infrastructure in the first place, if they had had to pay for it from ground zero up we would be likely to either still be waiting or we would have true competition. It does not really matter how you view what has happened in the past the incontrovertible truth is we have a monopoloy - BT - and that situation is NOT good.

Stuart
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NewtronStar

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2016, 09:44:31 PM »

I am waiting for VM to come into are town but there concentration seems to be in large citys, I don't think other infrastructures have the balls to expand their network to suburban/ rural areas only OpenReach has the balls for this  ;)
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skyeci

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2016, 09:48:56 PM »

Vm cables run right past our estate. When the estate was built 8 years ago the builder didn't bother to invite vm into the process instead opting for BT only. A missed opportunity. VM have since said they are supposedly going to do our estate as the cables are at the end of the road.. Will believe it when I see it though..
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Black Sheep

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2016, 09:50:23 PM »

A strange way of looking at it Stuart ???

You say BT were 'Gifted' the infrastructure ?? Hardly 'Gifted', it was floated on the market as a shareholding company for what was then deemed an ideal way for Joe Public to share in the potential and perceived profits it would yield. LLU was not even on the damned radar back then !!!

Fast forward to today and as has been pointed out above. and in many, many eloquently constructed posts by various other 'in the know' members, on here ............. there is NO, as in NO competition because there are NO, as in NO quick ROI's !!

THAT is the situation, and you seem to struggle to acknowledge this ??
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Ronski

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2016, 10:17:07 PM »

Someone remind me what this thread was actually about???
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Black Sheep

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2016, 10:19:08 PM »

The price of fish at Billingsgate market, Ron.  ;)
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Black Sheep

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2016, 10:22:35 PM »

Seriously though, we know where things stand with G.INP and ECI DSLAMS at this moment in time, there's not much else to discuss on that particular point. Plus, like any debate .... other issues will get brought in that may not be directly related to the OP, but are indirectly related.

It would be an odd world if we just talked solely about one point, and one point only ...... but I do take your point.  :)
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Ktor

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2016, 02:37:34 AM »

I think you're picking a fight with the wrong guy, Ktor .......... not a 'bait' or taking sides, but Ignition knows his stuff from being involved, not just forming an opinion based on what others might say.

From the day the installation engineer left my house in 2012 to the 21st of March this year I had a 80/20 fastpath/fastpath connection with DSL uptimes counted in months. On the 22nd of March I had a banded 64/20 interleave/interleave connection and complaining to my ISP resulted in nothing at all happening because although there was obviously something seriously wrong (and we now know what) a 20% drop in speed isn't considered to be a fault by openreach, as is anything to do with their dumb arse DLM. 9 weeks later my downstream is still interleaved - I'm probably stuck with that forever, or until I pee off to virgin which I am sorely tempted to do. 

The service I got from my ISP over this issue has been utterly crap and reflects the utterly crap service they get from openreach. As I said before the kind of service only a monopoly can provide.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2016, 07:27:12 AM »

Just because the choices that are open to EU's are limited, ie: only VM as any kind of competition on a nationwide scale, does not mean we have a monopoly........ it means you don't have much choice. Not BT's fault or problem.

Most service providers back in the days of yore (ADSL), employed some kind of 'Dumb ass DLM', it's only due to the fact that FTTC products are solely controlled by BTw DLM that EU's/ISP get frustrated that they can't hit the reset button whenever they wish.

Looking at some of the characters on here (no names but more than obvious), it's as well that the 'hands off' DLM is in place !!! That said, I do agree that the FTTC DLM is way tooooo slow to recover from previous actions, should it be warranted ?.

 
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Ronski

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2016, 09:08:49 AM »

Seriously though, we know where things stand with G.INP and ECI DSLAMS at this moment in time, there's not much else to discuss on that particular point. Plus, like any debate .... other issues will get brought in that may not be directly related to the OP, but are indirectly related.

It would be an odd world if we just talked solely about one point, and one point only ...... but I do take your point.  :)

Well with that I'm going to chuck my opinion into the mix, and I have to say that I agree with Stuart!

This comment annoyed me, but I held back from saying anything, as I'm not one to normally speak out.

I agree that the G.INP situation is frustrating ...... but with the greatest respect, what OR do or don't do is up to them ...... it's their product.

That is entirely the reason our telephone network is in such a mess, now I may be going off on a slightly different tangent here but I feel it's a valid one. I have been told several times in recent years by OR engineers that OR refuse to replace telephone lines, preferring to patch them only for them to require patching time and again. There are many pairs in bundles which are useless because they are so degraded, leaving no spares - I've been told this by an engineer! I've been told by OR engineers that our lines on the industrial estate where I work are in a very bad condition. The end result of this neglect is that millions of users are suffering a sub standard service! I live a mere 450 meters give or take from my cabinet, yet my connection performs far worse than it should, no doubt because of sub standard cabling. Why should we the end users be expected to put up with this attitude? If you used a taxi and it was falling apart you wouldn't use them again would you, you'd phone another as you have a choice.

A quick Google revealed this headline BT blasted for £5bn 'unjustifiable' profit as we pay over the odds for broadband due to 'digital stranglehold', I expect they've made these sorts of profits year on year, and yes I know they are a business and have shareholders to answer to, but don't you think they could just spend a little bit extra to replace poor quality cabling. If they did this as they went along things wouldn't be as bad now where it's just to darn expensive to justify doing.

Could you imagine what would happen if National Rail didn't replace worn out railways, instead lowering the speed limit? What would happen if they said its our railway we can do what we want! There would be uproar and people would stop using the railways because most have a choice, millions have no choice to stop using BT's infrastructure do they?

OR only get away with this neglect because the majority of people don't understand, and of course they are a monopoly with the vast majority not having a choice.

Don't you think with the vast profits BT make they could afford to give a top class service, after all it's not all about profit is it?

I have been thinking about this thread and its contents over the last handful pawful of days. Ronski's recent comment has, thus, prompted me to ask a question --

Would it be considered worthwhile for me to go through all the posts in this thread and move all of them that are off-topic to this thread's subject into a separate thread (subject/title yet to be decided)?  :-\

Only the recent posts, as hopefully one day someone will be back posting they've had G.INP enabled again and in the meantime there may be some news that's relevant to the thread.
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Ronski

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2016, 09:14:11 AM »

I'll also add that I recently had an electrical supply problem, did I contact my supplier? No I went straight to UK Power Networks and spoke to them, and they sorted out the problem. Now I can't do that with Openreach can I becuase they hide behind CP's.
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skyeci

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2016, 09:15:39 AM »

Well said Ronski.. ;)

I would prefer to see the thread as is.



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Chrysalis

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2016, 09:20:26 AM »

It is a mess, created by a multitude of reasons including BT's work in maximising profit's for shareholders. CPs putting a low wholesale price as the priority, and ofcom been obsessed with keeping openreach away from end users, even to the point of letting LLU providers dictate policy, yes even tho I am a customer of sky it is clear LLU providers have got things too far their way.

It's not too hard to work out why the local loop gets next to no proper work done on it, BT know its dead money to replace bad copper cabling with new copper cabling, its on a life machine awaiting replacement by fibre, at the same time tho they are trying to defer that replacement as long as possible, most recent evidence been their changes to g.fast spec to allow much larger distances (basically remove the need to extend fibre further out).

Now we have a situation where people who had probably previously come to terms of having interleaving, were given a brief period of time where it was turned off, then that was taken away from them, whilst the CPs are all pretending nothing happened and nothing is wrong, human beings dont like been given something nice then having it snatched back again, hence the upset people on here.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2016, 09:40:16 AM »

My apologies Ron, if my comment upset you. It wasn't intended that way but reading back I can see how it can be construed in that manner ?? I genuinely meant to get over that as in 'Pub chat', the convo will diversify somewhat along the fringes of relevance.

However, this is not my forum, I am not 'Mod' and whatever the people want I'm happy to abide by. 
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Ronski

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Re: Split from G.INP on ECI discussion
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2016, 10:00:42 AM »

BS, it was the below comment that annoyed me, not the one about changing the course of the thread.

I agree that the G.INP situation is frustrating ...... but with the greatest respect, what OR do or don't do is up to them ...... it's their product.


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