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[Dray]

Have you tried the modem in the test socket on the master socket with the extensions disconnected?

[Busa]

Yes and no change to sync rates.

[Dray]

Have you got one of these GEA line tests?
as seen here? http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17657.msg321936.html#msg321936

[Busa]

Here are three, the first from prior to openreach's first visit, the second between the first and 2nd visit and the final one from today after the third openreach visit.

[Dray]

I think you should push for a port swap - or migrate to Sky or TalkTalk which would involve a port swap.

[Busa]

I seem to have a decent High Level Complaints Advisor on my side now and I've informed him that the OR guy today advised me on one of the two previous visits a lift and shift was carried out. He was amazed by this as the notes from the previous OR visits do not mention anything, at least he seems to be on a mission to get to the bottom of all of this for me.

Problem is I still have 17 months of my contract to run although if this is not sorted out soon I'll be pushing for this to be cancelled, which I don't feel is unreasonable after they  have moved the goal posts some 20%.

TBH I'd rather hold out for VM as they have done all the groundworks and put the cab across the road from my house, just need the cables running now but no idea when this will happen. Most of my neighbours are already talking about ditching their own FTTC packages due to issues they have had themselves with OR over the years too.

[Busa]

Seems my SNR is far less stable along with my max attainable rate this evening too.

It usually drops slowly by around 0.5dB between 6pm and 10pm before climbing back above 6dB.

[ejs]

Thinking about the original drop in upstream bandwidth, perhaps that could have been due to an increased level of Upstream Power Back Off (UPBO), caused by someone newly connected to your cabinet being the proud owner of the longest line on your cabinet. The idea of UPBO is to make the upstream signals from each line all the same strength when they arrive at the cabinet. This means shorter lines have to reduce their upstream transmit power so that their upstream signal arrives at the cabinet at the same power level as the signal from a longer line, the signal from the longer being being attenuated more with distance.

I did notice the upstream transmit power was 5.8 in one set of stats, then 5.2, then later even lower. Unfortunately most modems don't seem to display the UPBO level they've been assigned, although they must know it because they must know the maximum power level they are supposed to transmit at. Also unfortunately, I'm not really sure which is the cause and effect with a reduced upstream power level and reduced upstream bandwidth. It could be that the bandwidth is lower because of the reduced power level, or it could be that the bandwidth is lower for some other reason, which results in fewer tones being used, and then the aggregated power level over all the tones in use is lower, because fewer tones are in use.

I don't think there's really anything that can currently be done about increased UPBO reducing your upstream speed, if that's even what happened originally.

[Busa]

That has only happened with every Openreach visit and would find it hard to believe another line longer than mine was connected on all three occasions, the main issue is now the downstream being some 10Mbps lower than it was prior to the Openreach visits rather than the original upstream being low and it is actually lower than ever now.

Yes the power on both upstream and downstream has changed, the attenuation has also increased on my line giving an estimated line length some 60m longer than it was on 11/04/16 so it is fairly obvious to me Openreach have changed something on my line when they have been fiddling.

I was also told by the last Openreach guy on 28/04/16 that a lift and shift had been carried out by one of the two previous visits, either on 11/04/16 or the 21/04/16. I suspect if it was then this would have been on the 21/04/16 when the Openreach guy didn't even have working test equipment. I've advised PlusNet of this and they have informed me there are no Openreach notes stating this as fact but advise me they are investigating. TBH I have absolutely no confidence in the abilities of any Openreach staff I've had, so far they have all been too quick to tell me they can't do any more at the beginning of a job! Maybe I've been very unlucky but I don't rate them based upon my experience to date.

PlusNet after one attempt to rectify this have so far offered me "a small reduction in my monthly contract rate" which as far as I'm concerned it a total cop out. I've asked them to try a port swap and that after all the grief this has caused me and my lack of faith in both PlusNet and Openreach I will not accept anything that keeps me in a contract with a vastly reduced service. My connection will get far worse once DLM kicks in and interleaving drops my speed even further. I've requested the complaints advisor assigned to me calls me back to discuss this, as it would seem to me Openreach are the tail wagging the dog!

I'll keep you all posted.

[Busa]

Well I'm still waiting for PlusNet to see if they can get Openreach to do anything regarding putting right their shoddy workmanship still.

The Plusnet complains advisor has said if they cannot resolve this or Openreach refuse to do any more then they will remove any cancellation charges from my account.

Not really good enough is it given the fact I'm stuck with Openreach until VM get their cables pulled in. How the hell can a company do a job three times that actually makes things worse on all three occasions then refuse to put it right?

The saga continues ........   

[Busa]

Well after no further response from PlusNet yet again I've had to contact them and rattle their cage.

I now find the only offer they have given me after 13 weeks and a total of 4 Openreach visits, 3 of which have actually decreased my service is to leave with no penalty or stay as is!

So basically Openreach make a total mess of things you lose 20% of the service you had and they refuse to fix the issue they caused in the first place, so much for "We will do you proud", more like "WE WILL DO YOU!!" 

I'm furious, I've asked for a deadlock letter and written to Andy Baker the CEO of PlusNet for a second time as I do not believe PlusNet cannot get this fixed by Openreach considering it was Openreach that caused this in the first place.

Openreach the tail wagging the dog that is PlusNet!

Openreach should be disbanded as it's obvious they hold the industry to ransom due to their total monopoly.

[AArdvark]

Busa,
Your experience to date matches mine 100%.

Plusnet will not challenge OR under any circumstances!!!

I also have had my line quality degraded by OR and ran into the same brickwall.
Currently, I am getting 60000/20000 on a line that consistently is at Max Attainable 73xxx.
The line tests state No impacts on the line such as REIN, Crosstalk etc etc
I was banded at 66999 *after* the last OR visit (approx 1 year ago) and on 31/03/16 the line was resynced by DLM to 60000/20000.
Plusnet will not chase OR to get a DLM reset.
I have been getting the run around and now get repeated 'the line is within estimates' standard script.

If you manage to get Plusnet to relent please let me know how!!!

Regarding OR I dare not get started as I will offend certain parties !!!
As you can see now, regardless of all the promises of change, OR still have total control and can ignore 'their' customers as of old.
We do not matter to OR and Plusnet are too scared to stand up to them.

Best of luck.

Sent from my Samsung SM-P900 via Tapatalk (Typos & Bad formatting are free)

[ejs]

60Mbps is still better than what a lot of other people can get.

If the lower end of your estimate is to be considered as some sort of minimum guaranteed speed, should people's speeds be capped to the upper end of their estimate?

I'd like to see Openreach doing more to improve the slowest or worst under-performing lines, but that's never going to happen, it's always done on the basis of whoever is complaining the loudest.

And there needs to be more clarity on what is and what isn't a fault - the situation in this thread could have been avoided by not sending out any engineers in the first place.

[Busa]

@ejs
With all due respect and hopefully without causing offence, I fail to see how quoting that other people get far less is of any relevance at all. I mean I used to get 28.8k in the early to mid 90's and still could but it's hardly relevant and I buy a service based upon my own expectation not what someone else gets.

Having said that maybe it would be fairer if it was paid for on a pro rata basis. I bet things would be done to improve the speeds, fix faults and actually train staff properly if that was the case.

In my case I was getting a connection rate of 50Mbps give or take 1Mbps and this has been reduced to 40Mbps (and still dropping), I accepted that and agreed to paid in full for an 80/20 service based upon this speed as a given based upon almost 4 years of FTTC on a full cabinet.

In my case this is not just a degradation in the service it is blatant vandalism by Openreach and PlusNet my point of sale and supplier are doing nothing to get this corrected.

I'm now seeing:

- A 70 fold increase in errors
- Increased Attenuation
- My download has dropped some 20% (before interleaving kicks in)
- My upload is still way below the 7.5Mbps low level.

Ties too close to Openreach perhaps, that and Openreach having a monopoly?

@ AArdvark
I don't really care if I offend people, that's their problem if all I do is report the truth as I see it. If I'm wrong them I'll hold my hands up and apologise but refusing to answer my questions and giving me political answers is just a red rag to a bull with me I'm afraid. I'm not a typical apathetic Brit 

I've written to Andy Baker again, maybe try that but I suspect giving me a complaints advisor was all a smoke screen as after another Openreach visit they have made matters even worse. They call these Engineers, I may be a little harsh here but based upon my experience to date they don't even qualify as Technicians and I wouldn't trust any of the ones I've had to cross the road unaided.

At present all I've been offered to date is as said:
- Leave without penalty
- Continue as is paying the same price for a lesser service.
- Drop onto 40/10 then at end of contract move to 40/2.

None of these are acceptable and actually do nothing to compensate me at all. I would take the first option of VM was live, but as yet all we have is the groundwork and cabinet with no cabling so not really an option right now. any other supplier is still tied to Openreach so pointless.

I'll let you know once I get a further response.

[burakkucat]

May I make the suggestion that you take option one, leave Plusnet without penalty?    Then take your custom to Andrews and Arnold, pass all your currently gathered data to them and allow them to take up & continue the cause with Openreach, on your behalf.