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[Bowdon]

BT Openreach Trial 18Mbps FTTC Broadband Speed for Slow ADSL Lines

Openreach (BT) has today launched a new low tier bandwidth product for their Fibre-to-the-Cabinet (FTTC / VDSL) based “fibre broadband” services, which offers download speeds of up to 18Mbps (2Mbps uploads) for those stuck on slow speed ADSL lines.

The new product option may seem odd, but Openreach sees it as a way to make FTTC packages more attractive to those who might wish for something faster than the old ‘up to’ 8-20Mbps ADSL / ADSL2+ products, but who would otherwise not be willing the pay the extra. Similarly it may eventually help to encourage the eventual replacement of ADSL services.

[stevebrass]

BT Openreach Trial 18Mbps FTTC Broadband Speed for Slow ADSL Lines

Openreach (BT) has today launched a new low tier bandwidth product for their Fibre-to-the-Cabinet (FTTC / VDSL) based “fibre broadband” services, which offers download speeds of up to 18Mbps (2Mbps uploads) for those stuck on slow speed ADSL lines.

The new product option may seem odd, but Openreach sees it as a way to make FTTC packages more attractive to those who might wish for something faster than the old ‘up to’ 8-20Mbps ADSL / ADSL2+ products, but who would otherwise not be willing the pay the extra. Similarly it may eventually help to encourage the eventual replacement of ADSL services.

18/2 is about my limit on FTTC so I might get a better price when the contract ends (after haggling of course)!

Unless 3dB SNR is applied.

[tickmike]

[Moderator note: This post was the originator of a thread titled NGA012/16 GEA - FTTC - 18/2 Mbps SPECIAL OFFER and has now been merged into this thread.]

Seems interesting.
 
https://www.openreach.co.uk//orpg/home/updates/briefings/super-fastfibreaccessbriefings/super-fastfibreaccessbriefingsarticles/nga01216.do

[Bowdon]

It looks like BT OR are aiming to eventually move everyone over to some kind of fibre, just as was talked about on another thread.

I wonder if this is to lessen interference between ADSL and G.fast?

[Chrysalis]

That's a logical move but ofcom will enforce LLU providers able to keep adsl services alive at the exchange in the name of competition.  Which sadly will mean the power cutback has to stay.

[sheepfarmer]

From what I've read BT Wholesale says it won't partake in the trial, which is a shame as I reckon they have the most to gain from it.

The big question is what constitutes "slow" speed? Is it less than the proposed 10Mbps download USO speed? If so then potentially all remaining 20CN exchanges which otherwise have FTTC infrastructure attached to it to begin with might be its base. If it's just 2Mbps then this hints at a more limited footprint perhaps aimed at villages & hamlets where the exchange is some distance away where an FTTC service is available, otherwise only a nominal ADSL speed of 1Mbps down is possible.

The issue of LLU can complicate things if the plan is to eventually phase out ADSL services from exchanges - for example my exchange is still classed as a Market A BT 20CN exchange with BT Wholesale offering only an "up to 8Mbps" service, but TalkTalk have an LLU presence and (to the best of my knowledge) all the roadside cabinets connected to the exchange have been upgraded for FTTC. If I ordered a BT Wholesale product then the choice is between ADSL1 & VDSL2 - with a TT LLU product its ADSL/2/2+ & VDSL2, but with Sky only a VDSL2 service can be ordered. There's also the case of those on "slow speed" ADSL lines that are EO, I've an uncle who has such a line that covers a very long distance (estimated 18km!) where if VDSL2, particularly in its long reach incarnation, was available from the exchange it could solve these problems. I suspect what Openreach could do if the trial is deemed a success and they decide to fix the line rental price for VDSL2 18/2 at the same rate as ADSL is approach Ofcom to ask them to set a sunset date for LLU providers to unbundle an exchange that has no LLU presence at all, so for example a Market A exchange which is ADSL1 from BTw only that has no current LLU presence and is unlikely to have in the near future, with the condition that the exchange is to be fully upgraded for VDSL2 only within 12-18 months with ADSL customers transferred to the VDSL 18/2 service.

Personally, as I'm on an ISP that uses TalkTalk LLU's ADSL2+ infrastructure, if I was offered the 18/2 VDSL2 service (which could be possible as my cabinet is FTTC enabled) on the terms being set out I would likely go for it.

[Dray]

From what I've read BT Wholesale says it won't partake in the trial, which is a shame as I reckon they have the most to gain from it.

Where did you read that?

[ejs]

It was mentioned in the ISP Forum slides from January, that anyone can get from the BTWholesale website.

[Dray]

From what I've read BT Wholesale says it won't partake in the trial, which is a shame as I reckon they have the most to gain from it.

I think they only have an issue with the terms of the trial not the product.

[aesmith]

Does anyone have any idea how this would work on longer lines, particularly EO?   Up to what sort of distance would it offer any benefit over 20CN ADSL?

[ejs]

I don't know about longer EO lines, but I think this 18/2 thing is mainly for people who already could improve their speeds by switching to FTTC, but haven't for whatever reason. I don't know what proportion of the ADSL holdouts haven't upgraded because their FTTC estimate is dismal.

Anyone could use the BTWholesale FTTC estimates to see if they could benefit from switching to FTTC. This 18/2 thing doesn't change that.

This shouldn't really have been reported as "for those stuck on slow speed ADSL lines". It's really for those who have decided to stay with their slow speed ADSL lines, or at least haven't opted to switch to FTTC yet.

[aesmith]

Cheers, I was wondering because round here there doesn't seem to be any plan to upgrade 20CN exchanges to 21CN, and I would have thought that surely BT would want to retire the 20CN equipment and network.   Hence wondering whether this up to 18/2 service might be intended to allow complete migration.

[WWWombat]

On this trial
This doesn't appear to be any new variant of VDSL2, or any change in the location of the DSLAMs, or indeed any new DSLAMs.

The consequences include
- There is no change to the availability of an FTTC service to anyone in the country.
- There is no change to the predicted speed available through FTTC services.
- This offers nothing new to anyone on an EO line ... until it is converted to a PCP line with a fibre twin.

The main aim seems to be to persuade people with slow ADSL services to upgrade to an FTTC service that they could have already chosen to make use of, if they so wished.

Who will it appeal to?
- Firstly, I don't think it will appeal to people who really wanted or needed a speed improvement - they will have already upgraded, even if the estimates weren't very good
- I think the first group it appeals to is the one who would like a bit of a speed improvement, but not a huge amount, and can't justify spending the ~ £5 premium. Their estimates could be anywhere up to 80Mbps - they care more about the money than the speed.
- I think the second group it appeals to are the ones who are offered poor FTTC estimates, even if they are better than ADSL, and don't believe the ~ £5 premium is worth paying for the small increase.

It seems to be more of a marketing exercise, in making a variant of the "FTTC product" that motivates a section of the consumer base that wasn't already motivated enough.

[WWWombat]

On the 20CN upgrades:

I'm sure BT would love to retire their 20CN DSLAM estate; they'll have recently reached 3,600 exchanges with 21CN WBC, and 20CN is being retired from all of those.

However, it seems like the remaining exchanges (some 1,900) have issues - including one where there is no room to build a 21CN DSLAM in the exchange, to start any migrations. The consequence is that, in order to activate 21CN there, BT will have to remove a 20CN DSLAM, deploy a 21CN MSAN, and migrate all of the users from the old one to the new in one overnight period.

If the exchange has multiple 20CN DSLAMs, the subscribers on subsequent DSLAMs can all be migrated onto the 1st 21CN MSAN - but this can take place in a more leisurely fashion.

[NewtronStar]

Can't see my local exchange @ 1.8 Km moving to 21CN it has been stuck on 20CN since 2003 and all it can give us is ADSL MAX and telephone and our FTTC comes from a larger exchange @ 4Km, so I can't see any reason to update my local exchange to 21CN as the cost to upgrade will out way the demand.