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Author Topic: Modem on extension is slow and unstable  (Read 6231 times)

Sebby

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Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« on: June 10, 2015, 12:07:07 PM »

Hi all, I hope you may be able to help. I am trying to assist my parents, which has turned out to be one of those jobs you wish you'd never started!

The situation goes like this. Their master socket (new type NTE5) is in the top corner of the house. From day one a filtered faceplate was fitted and the Sky modem/router was sited there. The line is quite long (attenuation of about 50dB) but the connection was approximately 6Mb and always reliable. There are three extension sockets in the house. The first is a double BT socket (this faceplate was installed by BT when a second line was activated, utilising the existing first extension socket after the master and its wiring by using another pair from the primary line's cable). The second line is no longer active, but the double socket remains. The inactive second line terminates here (I think that's irrelevant information, but I'll try to mention everything). The primary line then goes on to another extension in the downstairs hall, which finally goes to one last extension. There is just one DECT phone plugged into the downstairs hall extension and no other devices plugged in anywhere.

The issue they were having was poor wireless coverage due to the location of the router. Being on Sky makes things a little bit more tricky than they might otherwise be as Sky insist on their equipment being used (and, although there are ways to use your own, my theory is that if my parents run into trouble with the connection they can at least call Sky and go through troubleshooting without other equipment being part of the equation).

My thinking was that I would move the Sky router to the downstairs hall, where it would be in a more central location, thus improving wireless coverage.

Armed with a decent enough Draper punch down tool, I replaced the filtered faceplate on the master socket for the regular plate. I'm no BT engineer, but I'm competent enough with this I'd like to think. I connected up the Sky router with a micro filter downstairs and it sync'd fine, albeit at around 2.8Mb. I should also mention at this point that the ring wires are not connected in any of the extensions. Obviously this was quite a drop in connection rate, but I was inclined to leave it as long as it was stable, since their use of the connection is not particularly demanding.

However, unfortunately it did not remain stable, and the connection has been up and down ever since, sometimes not able to connect at all.

Last night I went to take another look and see if I could get to the bottom of it. The connection was back up and connected at 4Mb with a noise margin of 6.9dB (Sky's default, IIRC). The first thing I did was take the router up to the office, take off the faceplate, and remove the further extensions, so it was simply NTE5 to this socket. The connection was the same. This at least suggested that in all likelihood the issue is between the NTE5 and the first extension, whatever that may be.

Unfortunately, I was unable to get into the room where the NTE5 is situated. My first thought was I'd check the wires are properly punched into the terminals, though I'm certain they are. I also wondered whether it would be worth trying a different pair of cables internally between the NTE5 and the first extension.

Have I missed anything or is there anything else I can try? I'd love to get this resolved without having the move the router back upstairs!

Thanks in advance.
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roseway

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2015, 12:51:45 PM »

Two things occur:

- how are the extensions connected together? They should be daisy chained (a single cable going from the NTE5 to one socket, then on to the next, and so on). Ideally the modem should be connected to the last one in the chain. Anything else will degrade the signal.

- what cable is used for the extensions? It must be twisted pair cable of CW1308 standard or similar.

Whatever the answers to these questions are, this setup is not ideal. A better solution would be to put the filtered faceplate back, leave the extensions connected as they are (using connectors 2 and 5 on the faceplate) and wire up another extension for the modem only, connected to A and B on the faceplate. As before, the cable must be CW1308 or similar (CAT5e is fine, but rather bulky).

If you go for this last option, you need a microfilter between the modem and the socket, or an extension socket with a built-in filter.
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  Eric

burakkucat

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2015, 05:32:16 PM »

I'm not too sure what "filtered faceplate" is actually installed and although I can clearly see Eric's suggestion, it really depends upon the afore mentioned "filtered faceplate".  :-\

My suggestion would be to install a SSFP Mk 3 at the NTE5/A, have the telephony extensions running from the standard lower front face-plate and run a dedicated data extension cable (CW1308 or Cat5e) from the unfiltered AB IDCs of the SSFP to an appropriate socket (RJ11/RJ12) where the modem/router would be best situated.
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Sebby

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2015, 07:32:23 PM »

Hi both. Firstly thank you for your answers.

In answer to your questions, Eric, the extensions are indeed daisy chained. I can site the modem at the last socket of the chain, but given my test last night (essentially making the second extension the last by removing the further extension wiring) I don't think it will improve things. I couldn't say what cable was used since the extensions were installed by an electrician when the house was built. Is there any way to tell from the end of cable that is visible in the socket? I wouldn't be altogether surprised if it is not twisted pair of CW1308 standard!

The filtered faceplate that was previously installed was a BT ADSL V1.0.

Thanks for the advise regarding a dedicated modem extension. I see what you mean about connecting to the A and B terminals or using a VDSL faceplate's IDC connections for a modem only extension.

What I have to consider is how best to achieve this. Unfortunately running any new cable is out of the question. Is it worth trying to use another pair in the same cable that's already running throughout the house for the ADSL only extension, or is this unlikely to achieve anything? If so, how is best to make joins inside the extension sockets?

Thanks again for your invaluable help.
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NewtronStar

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2015, 09:21:41 PM »

Is it worth trying to use another pair in the same cable that's already running throughout the house for the ADSL only extension, or is this unlikely to achieve anything?

As long as those pairs you want to use are not terminated on any other extension sockets around the house bar the one that you have designated as what is called the data extension socket.

If the pairs are connected to other extension sockets and you plug in a telephone the DSL will disconnect unless you have a DSL Micro filter on each extension socket.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 09:33:50 PM by NewtronStar »
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burakkucat

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2015, 09:38:18 PM »

If so, how is best to make joins inside the extension sockets?

Gel-crimps.  :)
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Sebby

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2015, 10:24:48 PM »

Thanks again, both. Is there a possibility that by filtering the ADSL at source it may improve things, even utilising the same wiring?


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burakkucat

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2015, 11:09:26 PM »

Thanks again, both. Is there a possibility that by filtering the ADSL at source it may improve things, even utilising the same wiring?

It might but only testing will provide the answer.  :-\

With regards to filtering and what is filtered, etc. The currently fitted centralised filter just removes the Broadband signal from the telephony signal. It is basically a low-pass filter. At the left hand socket there are both the Broadband and the telephony signals present. At the right hand socket there is just the telephony signal present. Every modem/router device has a high-pass filter fitted which removes the telephony signal from the Broadband signal.
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Weaver

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2015, 05:49:53 AM »

It’s vital, in my experience, to keep the length of the cable between NTE5 and modem down to an absolute minimum.

Have you though of getting a good wireless access point (very cheap these days) and running a long ethernet cable to it? Sky can’t stop you from using your own wireless kit after all. It’s your LAN and they have no business telling you what you can deploy on it.
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Sebby

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2015, 10:47:32 AM »

Hi all, it's been a while but finally getting around to this again. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to matter which pair in the internal wiring is used; the results are the same. So I was thinking... The plan is to get fibre anyway. We could site an HG612 at the master socket, but the question is: would used a couple of home plugs between the modem and a wireless router work? It wouldn't be possible to run a network cable you see, but if home plugs would work, then we might have a solution.

Thanks again.


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loonylion

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2015, 01:12:19 PM »

Hi all, it's been a while but finally getting around to this again. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to matter which pair in the internal wiring is used; the results are the same. So I was thinking... The plan is to get fibre anyway. We could site an HG612 at the master socket, but the question is: would used a couple of home plugs between the modem and a wireless router work? It wouldn't be possible to run a network cable you see, but if home plugs would work, then we might have a solution.

Thanks again.


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Homeplugs would work but are notorious for interfering with the VDSL signal used by FTTC, so you'd be compromising your own connection performance, and possibly that of your nearby neighbours also.
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Sebby

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2015, 01:34:18 PM »

Thanks for the reply. If the VDSL signal is terminated at a modem before it goes to a router via a home plug, how would that cause interference?


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loonylion

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2015, 01:57:32 PM »

Thanks for the reply. If the VDSL signal is terminated at a modem before it goes to a router via a home plug, how would that cause interference?


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RFI/EMI being picked up by the modem cable/internal wiring/dropwire. Norway has banned homeplugs because of it.
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Sebby

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2015, 02:02:05 PM »

Interesting. Funnily enough they have home plugs already to go to a PC that doesn't have wifi. I wonder if this is the cause of all the trouble!


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loonylion

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Re: Modem on extension is slow and unstable
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2015, 02:07:53 PM »

Interesting. Funnily enough they have home plugs already to go to a PC that doesn't have wifi. I wonder if this is the cause of all the trouble!


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funnily enough, if I remember correctly, one of the units sold by BT as 'BT homeplugs' is in fact one of the units explicitly banned in Norway.
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