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Author Topic: G.INP and ECI  (Read 29693 times)

WWWombat

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2015, 03:51:38 PM »

I suspect that the easiest indication that we will get is from the changes to SNRM (and presumably SNRM per band), actual sync speed, and attainable sync speed - which should improve in a variety of ways while the attenuation (and attenuation per band) stays the same.

However, if UPBO stays in place, we might find that some of the increase in SNRM is used to offset a decrease in the transmit power instead. But some of the studies on vectoring suggest that UPBO can be turned off with vectoring - so we might see power increases too.

I wonder if it is worth creating some extra graphs to help document this. I'm thinking of a scatter graph, that plots the attenuation along the X axis, and the attainable speed along the Y-axis. Each point plotted on the scatter would represent the pair of (attenuation, attainable) at one instant in time.

With one user, the accumulated points plotted would show the variation with crosstalk, followed, eventually by a jump as vectoring is introduced - and then variation after this point. However, all points would be on the same vertical line.

If the colour of the points was gradually adjusted over time (from light red to dark red, say), you'd get some idea of how the various points relate to time.

With multiple users results plotted onto one graph, you'd probably get a whole 2D space giving a clue as to the gains possible for vectoring over a variety of attenuations. Perhaps one day we could do the same with actual distance instead of attenuation.
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kitz

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2015, 10:51:14 PM »

Quote
But some of the studies on vectoring suggest that UPBO can be turned off with vectoring - so we might see power increases too.

Ive also seen mention of this.  However my initial thoughts are that BT are normally overly cautious, so whether they would or not is a different matter. ::)
Thinking about it, the lines that are most likely to gain the most from turning off UPBO are short lines which can generally exceed 20Mb anyhow.   It may be of some benefit to longer lines but what about PSD masks which would still need to remain in place? :hmm:
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WWWombat

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2015, 01:30:24 AM »

PSD masks upstream are largely on/off, aren't they? I don't think it varies to allow for ADSL subscribers - certainly it surprises me when I see my (short) D-side line bit-loads US2 to higher levels than US1, but then has US0 has bit-loaded to the same degree as US2. I'd have thought that minimising US0 usage, when possible, would be useful.
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kitz

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2015, 01:52:55 AM »

Sorry I wasnt very specific because I when I mentioned long lines... I was thinking about U0 & D1, which is where most of their bit loading occurs.. and those were the PSD masks I was thinking off.. because those tones are shared with adsl/adsl2+.

Im on a shortish line (300m) and like you it PCB applied quite heavily in U1.  If vectoring is as good as they say, then there shouldnt be any need for that as those tones are purely VDSL/VDSL2 lines.
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Bowdon

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2015, 10:46:46 AM »

I keep reading that Sky already deploy G.INP. How do they do this?

Like I'm on an ECI cabinet, so if I went to Sky for my fibre, how would they deliver G.INP to me?

I don't understand how they are using it, and using the BT network, but BT themselves haven't used it. How does that work?
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boost

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2015, 11:04:42 AM »

I keep reading that Sky already deploy G.INP. How do they do this?

Like I'm on an ECI cabinet, so if I went to Sky for my fibre, how would they deliver G.INP to me?

I don't understand how they are using it, and using the BT network, but BT themselves haven't used it. How does that work?

I think that might be in relation to their ADSL LLU offerings?
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Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2015, 12:27:42 PM »

they been using it on their LLU adsl for a while.
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Bowdon

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2015, 01:09:16 PM »

Ahhh.. I didnt realise it was for adsl.  :-[
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Black Sheep

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2015, 08:44:11 PM »

I think BS has cheered up all people on ECI dslams now :) as at least we now know its coming and we not been abandoned.

And we can hope this also means that vectoring is heading our way to.

I can confirm vectoring trials on ECI are happening, and I've even seen a photo (boring as it is) of the ECI vectoring engine shelf. For commercially sensitive purposes, I cannot post anything more. But, it's another step in the right direction for the ECI customers IMHO.
BTW, I've no idea of projected timescales regarding final trials to implementation ..... sorry.
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Black Sheep

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2015, 08:50:05 PM »

Quote
But some of the studies on vectoring suggest that UPBO can be turned off with vectoring - so we might see power increases too.

Ive also seen mention of this.  However my initial thoughts are that BT are normally overly cautious, so whether they would or not is a different matter. ::)
Thinking about it, the lines that are most likely to gain the most from turning off UPBO are short lines which can generally exceed 20Mb anyhow.   It may be of some benefit to longer lines but what about PSD masks which would still need to remain in place? :hmm:

UPBO may not be required in a fully vectored system.  However, if SLU (Sub-loop unbundling) or non-vectored modems present, UPBO will still be required.
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Mike Turner

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2015, 12:14:25 PM »

I am not an expert in this area, and may have completely misunderstood, but I thought that I was on an ECI cabinet, and my Fritzbox 7490 makes me think that I have G.INP enabled.

Have a look at the following screenshots:-

By the way, there is something that might be relevant - I live in Martlesham Heath.
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WWWombat

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2015, 12:25:45 PM »

With an INP value of 44, it certainly seem like you have G.INP running.

The mention of G.INP itself might be a red herring - in other modems, a setting of "on" merely indicates that the modem is willing to allow G.INP, rather than indicating that it is turned on. However, that screen layout on the fritz might well indicate that it is actually turned on.

You are obviously an unwitting guinea pig, living there...
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Mike Turner

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2015, 12:27:31 PM »

Unwitting - perhaps. But unwilling - definitely not.

They can even test vectoring on my line, if they want.
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AArdvark

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2015, 12:30:55 PM »

Quote
I live in Martlesham Heath

All you need to know.

Bet you get vectoring 1st as it slips out  ;D

No doubt just a test that happens to be useful to the BT people that live near.  ::)  ;D
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boost

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Re: G.INP and ECI
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2015, 12:34:54 PM »

Nice! I've heard there is a world outside the M4 corridor.
What's in Martlesham Heath? :P
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