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Author Topic: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?  (Read 11126 times)

konrado5

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2014, 08:13:38 PM »

What do you think about SNR and QLN graphs? They shows similar undulations as Hlog at the same place.

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konrado5
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konrado5

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2014, 08:27:38 PM »

burakkucat: I've noticed something strange phenomenon. At the places when attenuation rises QLN are smaller.

Best regards
konrado5
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les-70

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2014, 09:21:38 PM »

  The similar feature in those plots are expected.  The attenuation attenuates the signal and the quiet line noise components that are not local to modem.  There is nothing extra there.
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konrado5

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2014, 09:24:32 PM »

Thank you for reply les-70. Could you estimate my synchronization rate loss looking at three above graphjs?
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kitz

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2014, 09:28:32 PM »

konrado..  Ive asked before, but you may have missed it.  When posting graphs please dont make them quite so large.

They are too big to view on a normal 1920 x 1080 screen..  nvm anyone trying to look at them from a mobile device.  I cant see them properly on an ipad.

Thank you.
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les-70

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2014, 09:34:58 PM »

   You obtained as good an estimate as your likely to get it a few post ago.  That attenuation calculation assumed the link between Hlog and the SNR.
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kitz

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2014, 09:39:50 PM »

Could you estimate my synchronization rate loss looking at three above graphjs?

Each loaded bit = 3dB of SNR = 4kbps of sync speed.

So to calculate what you asked.  Multiply the bins where no bits are loaded by your average bit loading at those frequencies (8 bits) so it would be something like

60 (missing bins) * 8 * 4kbps = 1920 kbps

Then you also can also add on a little bit extra those which arent fully loaded.  (8 - no of loaded bits * 4kbps)..  so its going to be something like 2 Mbps at a guess.
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konrado5

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2014, 10:04:33 PM »

kitz: I say about something else. Burakkucat explained it:
Quote from: burakkucat
When first shown konrado5's Hlog graph, my initial thought was that it is somewhat abnormal. I still hold that view -- it is somewhat abnormal. Why do I make that statement? Because of the "slow lazy roll", the "undulations" that are present in the curve. What could possibly be a cause of the varying attenuation over the frequency range in question? Changes in impedance (i.e. the AC resistance) along the metallic pathway, between the CPE and the DSLAM, would be a good guess. What could possibly be the cause of such impedance changes? One possible answer is that the metallic pathway of the circuit in question could be made up of various lengths of different poundage cables.
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13884.msg261253#msg261253
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les-70

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2014, 07:40:42 AM »

  I believe Kitz is calculating the loss due to your roughly 60 tone gap which has been been discussed a lot previously.

  That would be in addition to the value estimated from your Hlog wobbles.   You could do the same type of calculation that Kitz illustrates on your SNR wobbles, at a glance of the area involved you would, as expected, get a similar value to the attenuation estimate.

  In total you may have a missing 2Mb/s due to the gap plus 1 Mb/s due to the wobbles.

 On the wobbles B'cat suggest the most usual explanation but anything that gives a change in impedance along the line would also give it. Different cable gauges, a little resistance at any joints or several joints and other things e.g. in my case two metal paths within the exchange building.   Such wobbles occur on a large fraction of lines, especially where wiring is older, generally they are never fixed unless the impact is very much larger than you case.  Those case have large impedance changes that engineers have some chance of locating.
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konrado5

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2014, 11:19:05 AM »

Quote from: kitz
a little resistance at any joints or several joints and other things e.g. in my case two metal paths within the exchange building
Is it possible if I have very much stability at SNR margin 0.9 dB? Is it possible the problem is in my home?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 11:23:47 AM by konrado5 »
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konrado5

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2014, 02:55:03 PM »

Quote from: kitz
They are too big to view on a normal 1920 x 1080 screen..  nvm anyone trying to look at them from a mobile device.  I cant see them properly on an ipad.
OK. I send smaller graphs. Could you estimate loss of synchronization rate caused by abnormalities noticed by burakkucat (something else than 1.8-2.0 Mhz gap). Is my average noise level very good or rather incredible giving 25.0 dB attenuation?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 02:58:00 PM by konrado5 »
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konrado5

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2014, 02:56:03 PM »

QLN attachments
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konrado5

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2014, 02:56:31 PM »

SNR attachments
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konrado5

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2014, 02:56:58 PM »

Bit-loading attachments.
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konrado5

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Re: Could someboby help me with Hlin stats?
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2014, 12:23:19 AM »

 Could you estimate loss of synchronization rate caused by abnormalities noticed by burakkucat (something else than 1.8-2.0 Mhz gap). Is my average noise level very good or rather incredible giving 25.0 dB attenuation?
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